246 fully vaccinated Michiganders got COVID-19 between January and March, state reports

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by Chrizton, Apr 6, 2021.

  1. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    If that is the case, then I would say the vaccines have probably outperformed the estimates. It was a bad article.
     
  2. Darth Gravus

    Darth Gravus Well-Known Member

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    Yet only 246 out of 1.5 million have been shown to have failed.

    Do you want to do the math and see what percent that is?

    If not I did it and it is earlier in the thread
     
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  3. Darth Gravus

    Darth Gravus Well-Known Member

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    The vaccines have outperformed the estimates even if the 99% was correct.
     
  4. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

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    The most troubling part of that statement is the three that died. We all knew it was possible for fully vaccinated people to still catch the virus, that was evident from Pfizer and Moderna's own test results. What is new for me was I thought no fully vaccinated people had died and was even seriously hospitalize from the virus after full vaccination. Still a number like 3 is trivial when compared to state size populations statistically but this should tell us that even though we are much safer vaccinated the possibility still exist.
     
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  5. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    At last, somebody got the message. Bad article.
     
  6. Darth Gravus

    Darth Gravus Well-Known Member

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    like I pointed out in post number 3.
     
  7. Statistikhengst

    Statistikhengst Well-Known Member

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    Your statement has hands and feet. That's a german way of formulating a compliment.

    Truth is, truth always was, there is a miniscule threat of death from any vaccine. 3 is a small number, but still that's three lives that are lost and that is truly sad.

    However, without these vaccines, the number of deaths would be considerably higher.

    I am the type who is not seeking to sugar-coat anything.

    But please remember, one half century ago, people were just thrilled to get a vaccine for polio that was "only" 40% effective and indeed, a goodly number of people also died from the first version of the vaccine.

    We should thank our lucky stars that due to good old human ingenuity, we have not only one, but rather, up to 6 or 7 functioning vaccines, which will be necessary to vaccinate the entire world.
     
  8. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    I don't really know that we know enough to say until and unless we can figure out why and how they are dying and can come up with a way to identify similar people as being high risk. Dismissing it as 3 in a million, who cares, is not good science or public policy.
     
  9. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure what the policy is you are proposing or the point you are trying to make. I would always support more testing and potential improvements of vaccines but that is across board for any vaccine and not specific to the covid ones. My statements are based on the premise that the people that died did so because of covid not because of a side effects of the vaccine. I am assuming that when you say 246 fully vaccinated people caught the virus and 3 subsequently die it was due to complications brought on from covid. My view is that you need to weigh that percentage against the percentage of people that die that caught covid without the vaccine. That is in no way dismissing the 3 deaths. If people are expecting total 100% immunity from the virus after vaccination then I think their expectations are too high.

    If people are dying not from catching covid but from the vaccine itself then that is a totally different issue.
     
  10. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    We don't know which it is because it is only 3 in a million so who cares.
     
  11. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure I understand your reply. Is that what you think the scientist and the policy makers are saying or is that the policy you are proposing?
     
  12. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Where did you hear that, from an advertising brochure/propaganda from the manufacturers? Or maybe from our esteemed CDC or FDA?
     
  13. AKS

    AKS Well-Known Member

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    This is actually NOT what the data shows. Sure 246 out of 1.5 mil but how many of the 1.5 milion have been exposed to a virus load that would have caused infection if not for the vaccine? That number should be WAAAAY bigger than zero. Just goes to prove that you don't need 100% vaccination coverage to defeat the virus.
     
  14. Darth Gravus

    Darth Gravus Well-Known Member

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    Thank Odin that nobody has ever claimed that!

    There must have been a sale on strawmen today
     
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  15. AKS

    AKS Well-Known Member

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    I was just making a statement, geez lighten up Nancy.
     
  16. cristiansoldier

    cristiansoldier Well-Known Member

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    Thanks I have never heard that reference before. I wonder if it has similar origins to "an idea having legs". I think that is an older expression is see on some older TV shows and movies because I have never heard anyone say it in real life.

    Very true. Any deaths are tragic but the goal of medical science has to be to try it keep it to a minimum. I get the impression when I see members posting examples of people catching the vaccine or dying after full vaccination they expect vaccination to equal immunity. No vaccine manufacturer has ever made that claim.
     
  17. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    The vaccines are only 65-90% effective depending on the vaccine you are given. Plus covid is already starting to mutate and will probably at least attain increased immunity. We will need periodic booster shots just like we do with the flu. This is why we need to keep masking into 2022.
     
  18. AKS

    AKS Well-Known Member

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    No you do not need to keep masking.
     
  19. Statistikhengst

    Statistikhengst Well-Known Member

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    Yepp. and yepp.
     
  20. Statistikhengst

    Statistikhengst Well-Known Member

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    not true. Your statement is the kind of crappy propaganda that led to more than 1 major wave to begin with. I sure as hell am not going to try to school you about the effectivness of masking-up. Either you know how to read, or you don't.

    Pffft.
     
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  21. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    Variants that will be immune to vaccines will be on the scene in a few months. Keep your masks ready.
     
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  22. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Let us wait for the results. These could have been elderly, they could have had co-morbidities they could have been hit by a truck we do not know yet
     
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  23. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Every need to keep masking - even if just for a little while
     
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  24. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    Those case.
    3 died, did they die because of Covid, or did they die with Covid.
    Naturally fully vaccinated, you walk to a cloud of aerosol full of Covid you will inhale the virus. Since your vaccinated body does not have the red nuke botton, you will test positive for several hours till your body recognizes the sucker and eliminates it. It is the same with any other desease we are or can get vaccinated.
    We all know that from the flue. We all had the 2 day flue, despite vaccination, bones, joins hurt, feeling like crap, the shiits, slight fever and than it is gone. It takes a while for the vaccinated body to react
     
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  25. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're not far off. Russian trolls will push misleading and false stories designed to sow division and erode trust in our institutions. In the case of a story like this, the fact that some people tested positive within a time before the vaccine is supposed to be fully effective is being presented in a misleading way, as demonstrated by the claim in the OP that it is "potentially troubling news about the effectiveness of vaccines." Sadly, stirring up anti-vaxxer conspiracy theories is one of the ways the Russians accomplish their goals (and you are aiding them).

    Here. Educate yourself:

    U.S. says Russian-backed outlets spread COVID-19 vaccine 'disinformation'
    By Simon Lewis

    2 MIN READ

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States has identified three online publications directed by Russia’s intelligence services that it says are seeking to undermine COVID-19 vaccines produced by Pfizer and Moderna, a State Department spokeswoman said on Sunday.

    The outlets “spread many types of disinformation, including about both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, as well as international organizations, military conflicts, protests, and any divisive issue that they can exploit,” the spokeswoman said.

    The Wall Street Journal (WSJ) first reported on the identification of the alleged campaign on Sunday. A Kremlin spokesman denied the U.S. claim Russia was spreading false information about vaccines to the WSJ.

    ... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...covid-19-vaccine-disinformation-idUSKBN2B0016
     
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