35 Million will lose Health Insurance per Health Management Assoc.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by 61falcon, Apr 6, 2020.

  1. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What happens when these people that make bad decisions go without treatment until it requires emergency medical care and then they are unable to pay?

    Taxpayers still get the bill which is inflated due to the profits of our healthcare and insurance industry as well as costs with not catching the issue earlier. A cut is easier to treat than sepsis.
     
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  2. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I didn't buy your demonstration but thanks.
     
  3. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Th and you for acknowledging that you have no rebuttal to be peer reviewed paper I gave you.
     
  4. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Rebut it? I didn't even read it after seeing the source. WHO like the rest of the UN is an anti-American political organization. I have no interest in nor do I believe what it says about anything. Sorry.
     
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  5. Spim

    Spim Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Bad decisions are nothing unique.

    Society Paying for their mistakes is nothing new either.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2020
  6. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    So willful ignorance then. Okey dokey
     
  7. StarFox

    StarFox Banned

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    Here is one reason, but before I get in to it, I have always championed a public private partnership between the feds and insurance companies, then you might possibly honestly be able to frame it as something "affordable" unlike that crap Obamacare, but I digress.

    The socialist of the country lie about having no "premiums" they just call it something else, taxes. The cost of health coverage will not go down in fact it would go up, especially if Bernie or Hiawatha got their zero copay plans in place. Can anyone possibly argue that what someone pays now in premium would go down. Stop kidding yourself. An average person age 50 pays $550 a month for an $8000 out of pocket Obamacare plan, now drop the $8000 to zero and watch the premium (TAXES) go down? More likely that same person would pay $750 a month in taxes. And be sure of this, no choice to opt out, the strong arm of the IRS will step on your head if you try. But according to Lizzy his "costs" go down. Not if he is the slightest bit healthy.




    I have spoken.
     
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  8. StarFox

    StarFox Banned

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    Cobra costs whatever the employer was paying for your insurance, if they use an outside vendor to bill for it, then they can add 2% admin charge. So when people say it costs 3x what your employer paid is just not always true, if that happened to an ex employee that would mean simply that your employer paid 66% of the premium. before.

    And where do you get that Trump isn't allowing people to sign up? The enrollment rules are baked in to the law by the Obama administration. Now some states are allowing it without permission from the Feds, as I think is should be regulated by the states, so if your state is not opening the exchange then bitch to them but hell, if some people got splinters from a wooden outhouse toilet seat they would blame Trump.

    I have done spoken again!
     
  9. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    A person earning $15 per hour barely earns $20,000 take home pay after all deductions are taken out. And at least 40% of working Americans make that or less, now you can see why so many Americans live a hand to mouth existence, in what our president described as the greatest economy ever...........God Help Us One and All !!!!
     
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  10. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Lack of interest as my post said.
     
  11. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    which would be willful ignorance. I gave you a peer reviewed paper showing your position is incorrect. You flat out admitted you will not read it.
     
  12. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    You will get over it time.
     
  13. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    You seem confused. I don't care if you wish to intentionally remain ignorant. I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm just refuting the misinformation you are posting so others don't fall for it.
     
  14. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    But we know empirically, that socialized healthcare systems pay a fraction of the cost that we do. This is because of lower overhead, no profit built in, and much higher bargaining power. Single payer systems cost less. This is objective fact. So yes, if we moved to single payer tomorrow, we would instantly save on the overhead and profit piece. It would take a little time to save on the bargaining piece.
     
  15. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The thing is that about 600,000 people in the US die every year from cancer. To put it another way 40,000 to 50,000 people every month in the US die from cancer. We are going to have about a month now where people have not been going to the doctor for cancer pre-screenings. So how many of those people are going to be added to those 40 to 50 thousand dead every month from cancer a year or more from now? The same goes for heart ailments, those people are not being screened either.

    If some of these Federal agency medical experts are allowed to have their way and we continue the stay-at-home, where people do not go to the doctor for elective medical screenings elective surgeries, we may just see more people dying, down the road, because they didn't see the doctor during the month 2 or 3 months when government expertsexperts convinced governance or the president to tell us all to stay home
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2020
  16. Blaster3

    Blaster3 Well-Known Member

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    the state's governors determine the rules, not the feds (they just make recommendations, states do as they see fit).
    in my state (ny) no heart/cancer patient is denied normal/routine check-ups, as a stemi heart patient i just had my 3 month follow up today, received new scripts & filled 'em at my local privately owned pharmacy (big pharmacies, such as cvs/walgreens/wallyworld, tend to be too impersonal & take waaaay too long to fill).
     
  17. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm referring to the people who have not already been diagnosed with a heart aliment, or tested positive for cancer, or diabetes, etc... So no, not referring to heart or cancer patients undergoing follow-up appointments.

    I'm referring to people affected by these stay at home orders, which cause local hospitals to cancel all elective procedures, like colonoscopies, breast cancer and prostate cancer screenings, annual physicals, etc... With 50,000 people a month already dying from cancer, what will this do to our ability to prevent cancer deaths, if we are suspending cancer pre-screenings and detection for weeks or months?
     
  18. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    That is exactly what I did to your post.
     
  19. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    If the economic shut down lasts much longer it will kill more people than the virus.
     
  20. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    really? You provided a peer reviewed paper in rebuttal to the one I gave you? Pretty sure you admitted that you didn't and will not read it and simply said "nuh uh".
     
  21. StarFox

    StarFox Banned

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    Insurance companies have operated for decades underwriting for a 2% profit.
    So lets eliminate that and save a whopping 2%. Do you think for a nano second the federal government can be more efficient than private industry. You are in luck if you do, I have decided to sell my interest in the Brooklyn Bridge.
    By the way what is this bargaining power? You mean abuse of power? Who would want to be a doctor living under the thumb of the federal government, making $30,000 a year and having to justify every test you order or every Rx you write?
     
  22. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

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    Your math makes assumptions about what the employer was paying as part of the premium. Employers are only required to pay 50% of the lowest plan premium offered, for employee only. Depending on what the company paid, for which plan, and who they paid for, would calculate out to what the person seeking COBRA would be paying. The ex-employee also has the option of selecting an offered plan they were not previously enrolled in, such as a higher deductible or lower co-pays.

    Your assumption that the premiums are (3 times as much) is false on the basis that you don't know what the employer was contributing.
     
  23. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why is it that socialists think that cheaper is always going to be better? Bureaucrats and public employees who don't really care about doing a good job because they can't be fired, is always assumed by the left, is going to be better than a Private Industry which if they don't do a good job will be sued, or will lose customers.

    We have example after example of incompetent and grossly negligent bureaucrats and federal employees not being held accountable at all. I mean if the DMV isn't doing a good job not servicing their customers they don't give a crap, because if if you don't get served at all today you'll be back tomorrow, cuz there's nowhere else to go.

    Does anyone think federal employees and bureaucrats working at the CDC for the NIH are going to be reprimanded or punished in any way for not following regulations to ensure the stockpile was sufficiently restocked? No. They just say "oops my bad" and we move along and nothing changes
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2020
  24. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    no they haven't. Insurance companies make their revenues from multiple avenues. Premiums are one, investments with those premiums are another.

    No I mean bargaining power. A single payer for all of healthcare can negotiate lower prices.
    this doesn't happen in any other first world nation with single payer, so there is no evidence it would happen here.
     
  25. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    as part of a section 125 pre tax plan (which the majority of health insurance benefits are under in an employer sponsored group plan) requires the employer to pay a sizable percentage of the premiums. Most employers pay between 50-70% of the premium. The EE pays the remainder.
    Nope. It's just math.
     

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