37 criminal homicides for each justifiable homicide

"Using these numbers, in 2016, for every justifiable homicide in the United States involving a gun, guns were used in 37 criminal homicides....

"The study also reveals that only a tiny fraction of the intended victims of violent crime or property crime employ guns for self-defense. Over the three-year period 2014 to 2016, only 1.1 percent of victims of attempted or completed violent crimes used a firearm, and only 0.3 percent of victims of attempted or completed property crimes used a firearm. Of these, it is not known whether the firearm was even used successfully in self-defense."
http://vpc.org/press/self-defense-gun-use-is-rare-new-violence-policy-center-study-confirms-2/

 

You might want to check the stats on defensive gun use. The lowest number (from an anti gun group) was at 500,000 per year. The highest was 2 million.

You don't want to play the stats game man.

 

Surveys are a very questionable and subjective way to measure defensive gun use. There is also the question of whether using a gun in self defense makes you actually less likely to be victimized. You may be better off just running away and calling the police.

"Hemenway found that not only are self-defense gun uses rare -- people defended themselves with a gun in roughly 0.9 percent of crimes committed over this period -- but in many cases they don't lead to better outcomes for crime victims....

"Looking at what happened after people took action to prevent a crime, Hemenway and Solnik found that people were far better off either running away, or calling the cops if possible, rather than attempting to stop a crime with a gun. 'Running away and calling the police were associated with a reduced likelihood of injury after taking action; self-defense gun use was not,' they write....

"A more reasonable estimate, based on the National Crime Victimization Survey, would peg the annual number of self-defense gun uses to be around 100,000 per year. Researchers generally view these estimates as more reliable because the NCVS includes a much larger sample size and it surveys the same households multiple times, which ensures that people are recalling events more accurately....

"In a 2000 study,Hemenway and colleagues asked criminal court judges to read 35 accounts of gun owners who said they used their guns in self-defense in a national survey. In the judges' opinions, over half of these gun uses were probably illegal."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ore-are-used-to-commit-a-crime/?noredirect=on

 

Again, selling Hemenway, whose work has been shown to be deliberately biased or just plain flawed, multiple times in this forum for several reasons and other studies by others have shown the majority of gun defenses do not result in a firearm being discharged, let alone reach the threshold of a justifiable homicide. Thus the measure of justifiable homicides is not remotely useful in a comparison to criminal use of weapons.
The CDC study of 2013 had access to Hemenway’s study, it did not have standing in their findings nor result in any related changes to gun policy.
If you accept Hemenway’s work as valid, then you must accept the counter studies done by Lott and later by Kleck and others showing high figures for successful DGUs.
Do you hope by continually, along with others, recycling Hemenway’s debunked work that eventually its flaws will be overlooked and accepted not only as valid, but result in policy changes? Give it up.

 

Would not such ultimately mean the majority of firearm-related violence in the united states is being committed by known criminals, against known criminals, who by their very nature cannot claim self-defense when killing someone else with an illegally possessed firearm?

 

How is Hemenway's research flawed? Why should Kleck's work be taken seriously? You could reach the conclusion that millions of Americans have seen aliens using his methodology.

 

No. It does not say that at all.

 

Then if such is not ultimately the conclusion that can be drawn about the number of criminal homicides as opposed to legally justified homicides, what is ultimately the proper and correct conclusion that can be drawn?

 

Playing games again? Many discussions have been conducted on the Flaws and bias of Hemenway’s research in this forum (just do a search on ‘Hemenway’) which you were a participant in where the flaws were presented. So your question is a disingenuous one.
As for your second assertion, prove it.

 

And maybe around half those gun homicides would have still happened even if guns were illegal.

So now maybe we are looking at something like one justifiable homicide per every 18 criminal homicides.

Then factor in that a lot of those criminals who died in justifiable homicides would have gone on to commit more crimes or kill more people if they had not been delt with, so let's say the ratio is more like 1 to 9 now.

And shall we count rape pregnancies that were prevented too?
If you view abortion as a homicide, maybe the ratio goes down to 1 out of 7.

Yes, most gun killings are not composed of justifiable homicides, but I still think it constitutes a substantial part of the number, statistically, taking all those things into consideration.

 

" 'The myth of the self-defense gun is promoted by the firearms industry and gun lobby to fuel gun sales,' states VPC Executive Director Josh Sugarmann. 'The reality is that guns are far more likely to be used in a homicide, suicide, or unintentional killing than in a justifiable homicide.' "

 

In other words, you don't have an argument.

 

Mere speculation. Meh.

 

What this is telling you is the lock criminals up for a very long time. Then when they get out spy on them, and if you find them with a gun (a felony per se for a convicted felon), lock them up again for a much longer time.

 

I have presented my arguments (as have others) previously which, by the record of previous posts you have ignored and periodically resurrect Hemenway hoping that somehow it will be accepted if another liberal source endorsed him. As I posted, anyone can explore that record merely by querying the forum using ‘Hemenway’ as the search tag...my criticisms and that of others is easy to find, but periodically in your resurrection of Hemenway studies you call for critics to repost their arguments...arguments you never address.
As for your assertion regarding Kleck, you have never offered an analysis of your own to reject his studies, but rather have just posted the equivalent of he’s wrong.
Reminds me of Wiley Coyote’s repeating of failure with failure in hopes of success.

 

Even if such a claim ultimately were factually correct, it still would not matter. The criminal misuse of firearms is simply not a legal reason to restrict private firearms ownership and use in response, as per the united state supreme court.

 

Such a 'myth' saved my ass from three punks one night.

 

Then why don't we disarm law enforcement?

 

How many criminal homicides would there be if there were zero justifiable homicides.

 

Send the Marines in with baseball bats.

Actually that might work.

 

You can quote any and every God#*#@ survey or statistic you want. If someone breaks in to my home at night, I will shoot them DEAD period., with my GUN that I have legally obtained and know how to safely use. I will never turn it in or allow any politician to "buy it back". Never.

 

Hmmm.... that’s a common attitude of many gun owners. Just consider, if at the extreme, only 1% of gun owners have that attitude, that would represent 1-1/2 million people in the US, still more than all the sworn police officers in the US.
But then, the anti gun clack figures they can count on the police to confiscate weapons if their wet dreams were to come true. They would count on the same police element to do that that are now routinely vilified, spit upon, and ostracized by the Left on a daily basis. Yep, wet dream.

 

100k per year vs 10k or so homicides by firearm so....... doesn't matta had sex

 

Why would you make that comparison? Each defensive gun use does not result in a life being saved. Far from it. In fact, Hemenway found that people were better off running away and calling the police than using a gun to defend themselves.

 

I'm pointing out that at even the lowest number for dgu, dgu far outstrips homicides by firearm.