3rd Party, T Party, Here's your Chance

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by dairyair, Nov 15, 2013.

  1. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    All time lows of DC politicians.
    Now's the time for grass roots movements to push forward.
    Given this is PF, I'm sure this will be ho hum to most here. As most seem hardcore party liners.

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpoli...on-of-record-breaking-voter-anger?ft=1&f=1001
    The American public is clearly ticked off. Between the government shutdown, the troubled rollout of the Affordable Care Act, and the pace of the economic recovery, poll after poll reports signs of deep frustration and unrest.

    Anger toward politicians and government isn't exactly a new phenomenon. What is unusual, however, is the sheer number of polling records that have been set in recent weeks – both lows and highs.

    Here's a sampling:
     
  2. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Tea Party is an organization and not a political party. They will back true Republican conservatives, Libertarians and Independent candidates who have the same values as the organization.
     
  3. KevinVA

    KevinVA New Member

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    I agree - a 3rd party would be great right now. A Constitutional Conservative Party. Every Conservative that's a Republican should at least drop the GOP in their state and register Independent. That'll send a message. Of course, in some states, that might prevent you from partaking in the primaries, but I think that's an acceptable sacrifice.
     
  4. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Independents are confused fence sitters. How about building up the Libertarian party instead.
     
  5. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I beg to differ.....many independents are people who simply grew disgusted with one party or another and decided to drop the label, and many more (such as myself) kept the party philosophy and were driven away when the party changed. I got tired of being called a RINO.....and became an INO.

    Until there is a very Charismatic and Experienced leader for a third party, with an message that energizes young an old....there will be no third party.

    The Libertarian Party has never had this.
     
  6. KevinVA

    KevinVA New Member

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    You're confusing moderates with independents.
     
  7. KevinVA

    KevinVA New Member

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    I agree with this, and on a side note, I never would have pegged you for an ex-Republican. ;P Most of the Republican Party, including the establishment are fairly moderate though... you should fit in. It is the Conservatives who don't have a place to sleep anymore.
     
  8. Pardy

    Pardy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    With old school Republicans now attacking the Tea Party, I don't see how they can survive unless they form their own, real party. They are moving their cause to the state houses, but they have even less power there.

    There has never been a better time for a 3rd party.
     
  9. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yet, the "Voice" of my party continuously tells me I am no longer welcome....eventually this crushes loyalty an leads to disgust.

    I AM a RINO...and the Rinos will destroy the bastards that think they are Republicans by simply walking away.....good job building the base morons.
     
  10. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not really. Independents don't generally vote for an Independent candidate. They usually go with either the Democrat or the Republican depending on which candidate they like. Now how can someone swing from one party to the next? I say Independents are fence sitters because they wait to see which candidate is going to offer them the better deal then they jump off the fence onto the side of the candidate they are voting for. That is why they are generally referred to as the swing voter. Moderates generally stick with the candidates in their party.
     
  11. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Tea Party Republicans will probably join ranks with the Libertarians.
     
  12. Pardy

    Pardy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That might work but libertarians have a different stance on such things as religion in government (and schools), and often on abortion. They often disagree on gay marriage and pot use too.
     
  13. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes but those are social issues. Both the Tea Party and Liberals want more focus on the Constitution, smaller government, less regulations, less taxes. The issues that brought the Tea Party members together in the first place. Government debt and spending are issues both agree on.
     
  14. fifthofnovember

    fifthofnovember Well-Known Member

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    I think a good way, on the national level, to smooth over those differences would be to agree to consider those social issues as issues to be decided by individual states. And I assume you meant to say libertarians, not liberals. The two are definitely not synonymous.
     
  15. fifthofnovember

    fifthofnovember Well-Known Member

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    They really should, since the Libertarians already HAVE a party. Hell, if the LP grew enough through disillusioned Republicans joining, I bet some Dems would join too. The main thing holding the LP back is the perception that they can't win, so a substantial increase in membership could snowball for the LP, as the perception would change as the party gained influence.
     
  16. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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  17. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    Using the "states rights" canard as a ploy to deny Americans their Constitutional rights has been tried and failed. The TPs' aggressive social agenda of government-imposed personal morality is simply not compatible with libertarian philosophy, and I doubt if principled libertarians will kowtow to such a statist fervour.


    This 2010 survey showed TPs to be predominantly White, older, male, Southern, Republican religionists, demographically not a fertile recruiting ground for the Libertarian Party.

    [​IMG]

    The TPs were shown to be more fans of media entertainers than actual politicians, and had little fondness for erstwhile youth-attracting libertarian Ron Paul, even though he was quite latitudinarian in matters of deference to State authoritarianism.

    [​IMG]



    Dixiecans are a distinct possibility.


    .
     
  18. Pardy

    Pardy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They still have to agree on these social issues in order to coalesce, and these issues in particular have proven to be highly divisive. I can't see an ultra-conservative agreeing that pot or gay marriage are acceptable. I can't see a libertarian agreeing that church and state should be integrated.

    If a 3rd party is created, and I would love to see it happen, I think it would either have to be libertarian or TP, but not both.
     
  19. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

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    Only because it doesn't have the gravitas to be a political party. And they KNOW it, which is why they continue to parasitize the Republican Party.
     
  20. usfan

    usfan Banned

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    I'm sympathetic to the ideals of the tea party, but i'm not a member of any of the 'groups'. I wonder about the wisdom or effectiveness of these groups. Many seem to be opportunistic people jumping on a bandwagon to make money. That ruins the movement, imo. Then, they claim to speak for everyone, because they have the name in their website or PAC organization.

    I don't want to start any group, or join any group. I see the need for communication, & social media can help with that. I see the need for organization, & having a list of goals, or a mission statement of sorts.

    But it seems like every grassroots movement is hijacked by spinoffs, or special interests, or single issue groups pushing their pet project. A movement for american liberty needs a broad coalition, with an inclusive ideology, rather than narrow special interests.

    Is it possible in the modern american political climate to do this? I know the media can only think in Pacs or parties, but can there be a unifying, overriding movement that does not get bogged down in special interests?

    I have said before, that quibbling about details is like fussing over the dessert menu on the titanic, & much of our public debate is just that. The ship of liberty is sinking, & the statists have distracted us with 'social issues', or heated arguments over definitions. Once we have the prize of liberty, the other things will fall into place. But if we neglect the central issue of liberty, we will have neither liberty nor justice, nor civil rights.

    There is a grassroots movement for liberty. The tea party reflected that, imo. It has been smeared by the propaganda arm of the progressive left, but that was still their roots. It does not matter to me if that name continues to hold influence, or if so named organizations continue to speak for that movement, as long as their central message is not lost. I also think the civil rights movement in the 60s was part of that 'american freedom' movement. But it was redefined & hijacked by the progressives (ironic, because their roots are eugenicism & racism) & morphed into the progressive cartel.

    Is being 'independent' like trying to not be in a gang in prison? Is the modern political & sociological climate hostile to individualism? Statists are masters of pacs & groups for getting their agendas realized. Individuals have no voice in america. That is ironic, because america is founded upon individualism.
     
    KevinVA and (deleted member) like this.
  21. JoeSixpack

    JoeSixpack New Member

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    The T-party politicians are just non-conservative republicans pounding the 'what you want to hear' drum. At the end of the day, just like democrats and republicans alike they are bought and paid for corporate sock puppets.

    As long as the rich/elites continue to control the parties and the election process itself, nothing will change.

    Show me one politician that has called the capital police when a corporate lobbyist, came in their office with a suitcase of cash, and a job offer (AKA bribe) for when they decided to leave public office, and you have found your third party candidate.

    Unfortunately, they will be alone, and discredited and/or assassinated by morning.
     
  22. SMDBill

    SMDBill Well-Known Member

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    We complain about so much, but it's a simple problem to solve. If every American voter finally decided they have had enough, all they have to do is band together nationally and agree to not vote for one incumbent candidate. Yes, it would flip-flop controlling parties, but who cares? It would be the change everyone has been crying about for years and would take nothing but a social media storm, a lot of discussion, and the backbone necessary at the election booth. No violence, no threats, no accusations, nothing. We could just ignore the campaigns as they come up, vote on election day and wait for the new candidate to take office with some seriously high expectations held against them by a voting pool that displayed its awesome power.

    The onus is on us to do something. Being mad does nothing, but collectively we still have power.
     
  23. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

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    The Tea Party reflected Roger Ailes and allied big money special interests. Not quite grass roots, imo.
     
  24. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    Liberty? A definition is needed, as well as specific examples of how it is circumscribed. Pretending that one is for whatever it may be whilst others are against it, is not enough. One might as well come out in support of "good" whilst condemning that "evil" that "others" champion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    "Collectively" we still differ in how to wield it and for what ends.
     
  25. SMDBill

    SMDBill Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely we do. But if we truly want to change the system, or at least the players, the only way to do it is collectively and without regard for political affiliation. Otherwise it's still a "vote for my guy because we get xxx" system with the same old people doing the same old things, which leaves all of us frustrated.

    I'd love to hear of other ways to get rid of the gridlock that didn't involve anything illegal to do it. I'm sure there are many ideas floating around out there that could be tried.
     

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