4th Circuit panel rules federal law requiring handgun buyers to be 21 or older is unconstitutional

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Well Bonded, Jul 13, 2021.

  1. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In a decision released today, a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit ruled that 18, 19 and 20-year-olds have Second Amendment rights, and should therefore be allowed to purchase handguns.

    The case was rejected at the district court level, which sided with the defendants and dismissed the case. Giffords, Brady and Everytown filed Amici in support of the ATF.

    The three-judge panel didn’t buy it.

    “History makes clear that 18- to 20-year-olds were understood to fall under the Second Amendment’s protections. Those over 18 were universally required to be part of the militia near the ratification, proving that they were considered part of ‘the people’ who enjoyed Second Amendment rights, and most other constitutional rights apply to this age group. And Congress may not restrict the rights of an entire group of law-abiding adults because a minuscule portion of that group commits a disproportionate amount of gun violence. Congress’s failure to connect handgun purchases from licensed dealers to youth gun violence only serves to highlight the law’s ‘unduly tenuous ‘fit’ with the government’s substantial interests. Eighteen- to twenty-year-olds have Second Amendment rights, and the challenged laws impermissibly burden those rights,” the order states.

    https://thegunwriter.substack.com/people/28642877-lee-williams
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2021
  2. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    For those who disagree with the ruling:
    Demonstrate the necessity for, and efficacy of, denying 18-20yr old law abiding adults the right to own a handgun.
     
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  3. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    And here comes the en banc to reverse that decision, just like in Kolbe v Hogan.
     
  4. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe.
    Either way - next stop: USSC
     
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  5. joesnagg

    joesnagg Banned

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    So's what's the point of these 3 judge "panels".....seriously, what's the f**king point? Lawyers, Pftttt!
     
  6. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Fourth Circuit Rules Federal Law Banning Handgun Sales to Adults Under 21 is Unconstitutional.

    “Our nation’s most cherished constitutional rights vest no later than 18. . . . we refuse to relegate either the Second Amendment or 18- to 20-year-olds to a second-class status.”

    Regardless of what the full court does or doesn't do, you will not "relegate either the Second Amendment or 18- to 20-year-olds to a second-class status.”

    Weird how some folks on the Left keep trying to unconstitutional strip rights from their fellow Americans.
    Embarrassing for those trying to use government to strip the rights from fellow Americans.
     
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  7. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Another Left Wing Attack On Our Constitutional Rights Bites The Big One:
    That is simply a fact
     
  8. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    What's weird, is your saying those things, when there is no one, "on the Left," here, arguing against the ruling. If an 18 yr. old can join the military, and is automatically tried as an adult, in court (right?), then it's hard to make the case that they shouldn't have gun rights. I think the conversation on the Left, in contrast to your paranoid fears, is focused on things like background checks, gun registration (for tracking purposes, when involved in a crime), types of weapons restricted (e.g., semi-automatic assault-rifles), and safe storage rules, to prevent kids or burglars from having easy access to a private individual's firearms. While there are a few with the extreme position of ridding all citizens of their guns, this is not at all the mainstream one.
     
  9. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Giffords, Brady and Everytown opposed the ruling.

    You don't have to be for ridding citizens of all of their guns to be for removing rights.
     
  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    The main one being safe storage as it appears to be THE most effective intervention to reduce gun deaths
     
  11. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    It's unconstitutional.
     
  12. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    If you're 18, you can legally buy an M60 Machine gun - but not a handgun.
    :lol:
     
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  13. RoccoGiarre

    RoccoGiarre Active Member

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    even as a lefty, i agree. if they’re old enough to be drafted …

    still looking for assault weapons reform though. america is embarrassing
     
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  14. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    "Reform". There's a new buzzword.
    Understanding the 2nd Amendment protects the right to own an use all "bearable arms" - including 'assault weapons' - what "reforms" do you seek?
     
  15. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    What reform are you looking for?
     
  16. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Requiring me to keep my home protection firearm locked in a safe defeats the actual purpose of me having a firearm for home protection.

    "Hold on for one second he who just kicked in my front door while I run open my gun safe and get my gun to stop you".

    While I am in favor of proper firearm storage that is a decision and responsibility best left to the gun owner. For those who have children in the home that is a risk vs reward decision that they have to make regarding their own personal circumstances and their own personal family, not the government.
     
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  17. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    It also violates the constitution.
     
  18. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    As much as I would love for that to be a valid argument it has been demonstrated time and time again that something violating the Constitution doesn't exactly matter very much to some people in this country.

    Or even lawmakers or law enforcement for that matter...
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2021
  19. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    How about when there are children in the house?
     
  20. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    As I said that is a risk vs reward decision they have to make as parents. People get firearms for home protection in order to protect their homes and their families in the event of unwanted home invasion. Whether or not the risk of having quick access to your firearm in the event of home invasion is worth the risk of your child harming themselves with your quick access firearm is a decision you have to make as a gun owner and parent. At the end of the day that is a decision for YOU to make, not the government to make for you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2021
  21. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I personally see the constitutional implications, and yes, this is a very slippery slope, but I personally think they should somehow do something to allow this restriction, so the other side doesn't start reacting too strongly and start fighting back and gaining momentum to take away additional rights.

    It's not an entirely unreasonable compromise and probably does have some substantial effect at reducing crime in certain city areas.

    (The reasons for that should be obvious, but I'm willing to explain it if anyone here is a little mentally slow)
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2021
  22. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    What is "proper firearm storage"?
     
  23. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    https://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/at-home/Pages/Handguns-in-the-Home.aspx

    upload_2021-7-14_12-44-31.jpeg

    No other industrialised country loses the number of children to firearms than America does
     
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  24. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    And how would it be enforced? We going to allow the cops unrestricted access to our homes to see whether or not your glock is in a gun safe instead of the nightstand? We going to make it mandatory that every new firearm purchaser sign a statement saying the cops can show up to your house unannounced to check in on you and you have to let them in to look around by law?
     
  25. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    And as I said..

    "Hold on he who just kicked in my front door give me a second to retrieve my firearm from the gun safe in order to stop you".

    That's one of those decisions that you have to make as a parent with small children and a gun owner. Which is more concerning to you?

    For me personally when I had a child in the home I made the decision to not keep the designated home defense firearm in a gun safe but rather keep it out of reach. Kept it in the bedroom closet on the top shelf to where I could retrieve it quickly but the child couldn't. Not as quickly as at arms length by the bed as I have now but quick "enough" as a compromise between quick access and child safety. Sure the boy COULD have gotten it if he so desired, stack a bunch of boxes and climb up there or something and find it then figure out how to work the safety and pull the trigger. But it was a shotgun and it was physically impossible for him to actually kill himself with it due to it being impossible for him to pull the trigger with the barrel pointed at himself due to the length of a shotgun. Even using his toes he wasn't tall enough to do that.

    Luckily for me the boy was also deathly afraid of ghosts for some reason so all it took was me telling him there are ghosts in the closet and he was terrified to get anywhere near the closet for those toddler years before I was able to explain to him why he shouldn't be digging around in the closet.
     

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