6% number is not debunked

Discussion in 'Coronavirus (COVID-19) News' started by Josephwalker, Oct 6, 2020.

PF does not allow misinformation. However, please note that posts could occasionally contain content in violation of our policies prior to our staff intervening. We urge you to seek reliable alternate sources to verify information you read in this forum.

  1. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    7,504
    Likes Received:
    8,675
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Derideo_Te likes this.
  2. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    42,206
    Likes Received:
    14,119
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The number of suicides probably is up to some degree. But NOWHERE near enough to come anywhere near the number of covid deaths

    Which is why articles like that don't show actual numbers
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
    Derideo_Te and bigfella like this.
  3. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    7,504
    Likes Received:
    8,675
    Trophy Points:
    113
    .....and there we have it. When the data can't be ignored or misrepresented enough to make it fit, then along comes the conspiracy theory. Pretty sure I predicted this back at the start of the thread.
     
    Derideo_Te likes this.
  4. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    7,504
    Likes Received:
    8,675
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Correct. We all know how this will play out. They will throw around a few red herrings, imply that the data is fake and then pretend they were never shown the actual data. Get involved in nitpicking arguments to distract from the complete & atter lack of evidence to support their claims, then claim 'victory' when those wiht the actual data on their side choose not to waste time with their distractions.

    This is oh so very simple. There is data available that shows excess deaths for the year thus far. The sharp and large rise corresponds exactly to the COVID outbreak and the numbers are actually higher than the official COVID figures. All they have to do is provide us with data that explains that unexpected rise without COVID. So far no one has got even a little bit close and every attempt has just exposed how few answers they have.
     
    Lesh and Derideo_Te like this.
  5. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    8,791
    Likes Received:
    798
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Where that 250000 came from?
    We can't calculate that number, we have to wait until the end of the year.
    Current population 334,855,987
    https://countrymeters.info/en/United_States_of_America_(USA)
    Number of deaths in 2020 should be around 3043642 by the end of the year.

    If we take e.g. 2018 as an example where population was 327000000 and divide by mortality 2839205
    we will have ~ 115.17 per deaths
    So normal level would be 334855987 / 115.17 ~ 2907493.1
    i.e. we are going to have about 104000 in an excess

    And we do know how many deaths was caused by COVID-19.
    It could be that people have died due to bad economic conditions and depression.
    As well as over consumption of alcohol and drugs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
    Josephwalker likes this.
  6. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    7,504
    Likes Received:
    8,675
    Trophy Points:
    113
    As I have said repeatedly, the data has already been posted on this thread along with the relevant links. If you can't find it then you lack he research skills necessary to mak any of the assertions you claim.
     
    Derideo_Te likes this.
  7. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    8,791
    Likes Received:
    798
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Those numbers are just a political propaganda.
    There is no real statistical analysis has been done..
    Real analysis should include
    1. Deaths caused by adverse economic conditions.due to lockdown.
    2. Consideration of Increased general mortality rate due to population ageing.
    3. Population growth.to mortality ratio.
    4. Absence of absolute numbers.
    5. Consideration of monetary incentives given to the doctors and hospitals when they make diagnosis.
    None of your links has anything that reminds true statistical research.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
    zelmo73, Josephwalker and Eleuthera like this.
  8. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    22,694
    Likes Received:
    11,760
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Most of the "data" you've posted, that the government and media have given us, is garbage.

    All data derived from a notoriously unreliable PCR test is equally unreliable. Garbage in = garbage out is true.

    I do understand how people trembling in fear over a virus can see bad data as having meaning, because fear overwhelms reason.

    For those not scared silly, data derived from garbage is garbage.
     
    zelmo73 and Josephwalker like this.
  9. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    42,206
    Likes Received:
    14,119
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And Kreo has admittedly "misinterpreted" that data. It could be argued that he misrepresented that data
     
    Derideo_Te likes this.
  10. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    42,206
    Likes Received:
    14,119
    Trophy Points:
    113
    "notoriously unreliable PCR test"?

    On what planet?
     
    Derideo_Te likes this.
  11. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    42,206
    Likes Received:
    14,119
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Derideo_Te likes this.
  12. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    22,694
    Likes Received:
    11,760
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Planet Earth.

    Maybe you can offer some tests in which its efficacy is documented? Maybe you can rationalize away as to why the designer of those tests note that they should not be used for diagnostic purposes?
     
    zelmo73 and Josephwalker like this.
  13. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    42,206
    Likes Received:
    14,119
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Maybe you can refer yourself to the Harvard Medical link above.

    There's an idea
     
    Derideo_Te likes this.
  14. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    7,504
    Likes Received:
    8,675
    Trophy Points:
    113
    ....and again. If you don't like the number then you just go for the conspiracy theory.
     
    Derideo_Te likes this.
  15. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    7,504
    Likes Received:
    8,675
    Trophy Points:
    113
    To be expected. They can't challenge it so they have to misrepresent it.
     
    Derideo_Te likes this.
  16. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    7,504
    Likes Received:
    8,675
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The data I am referring to is the rise in excess deaths this year - the rise in the total number of deaths. That has nothing to do with any sort of test. It has happened in a number of nations hit hard by COVID and starts at the exact same time COVID starts and the numbers correlate roughly with official COVID deaths.

    So, you can either bring hard evidence that the total death figures are wrong or you can revert to lots of vague claims about conspiracies for which you have even less proof. Anyone who has read your posts knows which of those is going to happen.
     
    Derideo_Te likes this.
  17. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Messages:
    7,504
    Likes Received:
    8,675
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So you are just making up a bunch of stuff for which you have little or no evidence and throwing it all up in a big cloud of 'lets pretend this is facts'. It was to be expected. You don't have any way to challenge the sharp and sustained rise in deaths so we get this. I will admit to being slightly curious to know if even you believe what you write, but only slightly.
     
    Derideo_Te and Lesh like this.
  18. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    22,694
    Likes Received:
    11,760
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thank you, I stand corrected. My apologies, I failed to realize you were specifically talking about excess deaths data and NOT number of cases or number of deaths from covid data.

    Yes, the excess deaths is a fair way to examine it from another angle, but it must be remembered that the number of deaths from covid in the equation is an inaccurate number, exaggerated for political purposes.
     
  19. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2016
    Messages:
    19,954
    Likes Received:
    10,174
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Can't find exact number but this is interesting.


    "Center for Disease Control Director Robert Redfield said in a Buck Institute webinar that suicides and drug overdoses have surpassed the death rate for COVID-19 among high school students. Redfield argued that lockdowns and lack of public schooling constituted a disproportionally negative impact on young peoples’ mental health.


    "But there has been another cost that we’ve seen, particularly in high schools," Redfield said. "We’re seeing, sadly, far greater suicides now than we are deaths from COVID. We’re seeing far greater deaths from drug overdose that are above excess that we had as background than we are seeing the deaths from COVID. So this is why I keep coming back for the overall social being of individuals, is let’s all work together and find out how we can find common ground to get these schools open in a way that people are comfortable and their safe."

    Roughly 146,000 people have died from COVID or COVID-related causes in the U.S., according to CDC data.

    The most recent publicized federal data records 48,000 deaths from suicide and at least 1.4 million attempts in 2018. In 2019, almost 71,000 people died from drug overdoses.

    Where Redfield obtained his data is unknown, although a doctor at John Muir Medical Center in Walnut Creek, CA claimed the facility has “seen a year’s worth of suicide attempts in the last four weeks.”


    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/micae...abovebase-suicides-than-covid-deaths-n2573278
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
    Eleuthera likes this.
  20. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Messages:
    8,791
    Likes Received:
    798
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I said 250000 is an exaggeration.
    This number is estimated comparing population of 2019 and number of deaths in 2019.
    The real excess number is 105 - 110 thousands based on moving averages.
    The mortality is increasing by 1.1 - 1.3 percent every year due to ageing
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
  21. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    22,694
    Likes Received:
    11,760
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Harvard is happily participating in the same scam Anthony drives. So too is Johns Hopkins Public Health, where the Event 201 "simulation" was held.
     
  22. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    42,206
    Likes Received:
    14,119
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yea...Harvard Medical is a "scam" but nutjob Judy Mikovitz is the "real deal

    Sure
     
    Derideo_Te and bigfella like this.
  23. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    42,206
    Likes Received:
    14,119
    Trophy Points:
    113
    For all of that you still can show a number for the increase in suicides. I have no doubt there HAS been an increase...but I highly doubt it has been any where near as large as you are trying to claim. And the fact that you can't provide that number speaks to that
     
    Derideo_Te and truth and justice like this.
  24. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    22,694
    Likes Received:
    11,760
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You are not yet aware that doctors can be bought, that they can be paid to tell lies and paint rosy pictures. You have convinced yourself that the doctors working for Purdue Pharma were not deceiving when they promoted OxyContin as just another aspirin.

    More, you've convinced yourself that whistleblowers like Mikovits are the bad guys and that the authority figures are the good guys, but that's old news indeed.
     
  25. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    42,206
    Likes Received:
    14,119
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Mikovitz actually IS a nutjob out to sell books and make money
     
    Derideo_Te likes this.

Share This Page