60% approve of 70% top tax rate - Lets do it !

Another reason post secondary school should be "free" is because the rich kids are ill prepared to take over the family fortune and manage it well enough to keep from losing it? Tell me, when everyone else is allowed to go to college for "free", and the rich all start going and getting their masters which still cost a heap of money, or their PHDs, will you then be looking to say those need to be "free"? How about those kids who chose not to go to post secondary, will it be Compulsory like high school? So many already chose to drop out of high school, especially in the minority poor communities because they feel they need to start working earlier to help provide for their families and it puts them behind cause "everyone has a high school diploma". They will still drop out and be even further behind cause "everyone has a bachelors degree".

Do you think everyone who has a "living wage" also has a college degree? Do you think every profession requires a degree? What level should everyone be required to get? Would the trade schools also be covered?

You have no argument from me, I think we need to bring the troops home from the 100+ countries they are stationed in first. Then cut down the size while keeping a respectable guard/reserve force. Boost our security on our RnD and make the other countries design their own new weapons instead of stealing the designs from us.

 

You are making hypothetical suppositions that are not relevant!

I live in France where post-secondary schooling is free, gratis and nearly for nothing. None of the above premonitions on your part happen.

Look, YOU LIVE IN A MARKET ECONOMY. You obey the rules of a market-economy where the Supply of Labor meets the Demands for Labor. Is that notion so difficult for you to understand?

Then take a course in economics before blathering in a blog!

We, as both workers and customers (for products and services), must bend to the rules of Supply&Demand - for as long as they are fair and equitable. (Which they often are not - but that is another subject for another day!)

What is worth noting, in terms of Economic Research, is this: The US has become one of the most UNFAIR economies on earth (in terms of Income Distribution) because of its system of upper-income taxation that destroys Income Fairness!

*And now supposedly you know why the super-rich have made so many statues of Reckless Ronnie - he's their hero for reducing Upper-Income Taxation.

Whether a job requires a profound knowledge of how to handle a construction equipment or drive a van is not relevant. What is relevant is the opportunity to obtain whatever training/education that is thought necessary given the economic circumstance.

That is happening in Europe because post-secondary education is NOT COSTLY. It is happening in the US because said education IS TOO DAMN EXPENSIVE even at state-schools. (A year of post-secondary education in Europe typically costs a kilo-buck because it is financed by the national budget. In the US, the state-schools that provide such education cost $11K. Which is far too expensive for those who need the education most.)

 

That is none of your business.

I am American ...

 

The answer to your question is complex. (What's a "living-wage"? When? Where?)

Here is a description:


A reference size family could be that of the Poverty Threshold, for which (today) the average income is around $25K per year. Is that a "living wage"? It is about half the "average income" in the US.

So, let's take an analysis from existing research. (From here, the living wage in the US for a standard family (2 parents, 2 children) is 1380-2120 dollars per month. Here is an infographic of wage categories in the US:

What I think is this:
*We started to leave the Industrial Age in the year 2000. The Internet has changed radically how and with what credentials people are hired to work. It is clear that an advanced degree is now a minimum qualification for the higher-paid jobs (that we all like). (All the low-cost industrial jobs have long since left for the far-east.)
*And since wages are central (key) element to lifestyle, then it is best that any government promote and subsidize Post-secondary Education - just like it does Secondary Education. Meaning, in both cases, it is free, gratis and for nothing.

The answer to your question is thus:
*Tertiary-education is free in Europe as it should be in the US. It has been since the beginning of the 1950s as Europe embarked upon rebuilding from the ruins of WW2. The rapidity at which it has obtained a level of achievement vs other countries (namely those that were not ruined by WW2) is remarkable. (See here.)
*Where tertiary-education should be free - but it is not - is the US.

It is wise to allow people to enter post-secondary education (vocational, associates, bachelors, masters, doctorate) in general. How high they go is dependent upon their abilities and determination.

But they should not be discriminated because of their inability to pay the minimum costs in a state-funded tertiary-level program. Which costs, in the US, nowadays around 11 to 12K-$ per year.

My Point:
*Cut the DoD budget that gobbles nearly 50% of all Discretionary Federal Spending, and
*Put the money into subsidizing state-run free Tertiary Education Programs for all comers.

Simple, aint it ... ?

 

So there was no uptick for people wanting to go to post grad or doctorial education once Bachelors become free?

That's very basic, what does that have to do with paying for someone to go to college?

What does that have to do with taking more money from the workers to give to people to go to college?

Whats funny is that the system you advocate for needs the super rich to be some what viable. Without the super rich, you don't have the ability to take enough money to pay others for nothing. And by "unfair" you mean that you are jealous that you don't have the same wealth as someone else. When people like Oprah and Shultz can be the lowest and poorest of anyone in America, and become billionaires in their lifetime just by providing a service in which most people wanted, I don't see that as "unfair". When AOC came from nothing to be a law maker, that's not "unfair".

So would you require the van driver or the heavy machine operator to take 3-4 years of college, going through humanities, and college level English and math just to get their license?

Wonder if all you professors get paid the same as the secondary school teachers? Public school teachers average $56,376. College professors are averaging $70k.

BTW, its not "too damn costly". Going to a junior college before going to a regular college for a degree in nursing wont break the bank. I would be open to your idea of cheaper college tuition, but lets be honest in our assessments here. If we make other people pay for college, we must also have curriculums that cut out the non-essentials. A hair dresser or engineer doesn't need humanities or social sciences to get their degree. The English major doesn't need math courses. There are many classes in which the colleges thrust upon students before they can meet the college requirements for the degree. Also, the colleges no longer can arbitrarily raise their rates, the price per semester/quarter hour grows at inflation rate. And, for those who elect a trade school over a university, that is acceptable too. And the degrees which are covered must have a economically sound return, not paying for people to get liberal arts degrees so they can work at starbucks for the rest of their lives. And only one degree is covered, not multiples with 7 understudies.

 

Blah, blah, blah.

Moving right along ...

 

People make their own choices and "livable" is based on the individuals spending habits and budgetary skills.

[/quote]What I think is this:
*We started to leave the Industrial Age in the year 2000. The Internet has changed radically how and by-whom people work. It is clear that an advanced degree is now a minimum qualification for the higher-paid jobs (that we all like).[/quote]Always has been. Those who went to college before made more money on average than those who didn't. But, not ALL good paying jobs require a degree. Do you think welders and heavy machine operators require a degree? What about mechanics or plumbers or soldiers? They all make livable wages and no degree is required. Its a personal choice to get more educated, but that's not going to increase their salaries at all. And conversely, having a worthless degree in lesbian folk dancing isn't going to get you a well paying job either.

Well, why not just have the government give everyone more money if all you want to do is raise their life style? Its been done for decades that people have made their choice to go to college and make more. Its gotten far too expensive since the government started coming in and giving guaranteed backed loans for college.

How does that answer my question of "do you think every 'livable wage' job requires a degree?"

So you are willing to pay for a life time of schooling with no end? People can just be professional students their entire lives?

And if people got a job and took 1-2 classes at night, they can pay for that themselves, like we did for decades. For Americans to become part of the middle class, there are 3 basics needed. #1, graduate high school. #2 Work full time. #3 Don't have children out of wedlock. Over 90% of people who have done that in America are in the middle class now. Not because they went to college. College today is the same as college 20-50 years ago, its only needed for a select few jobs.

As for the EU and their schooling system, you are leaving out one key factor. They test the kids at a young age, and put them in classes geared towards the strengths they show when they are younger. In the US, every kid is taught the same way no matter what their goals in life are going to be.

Lets start with pulling the military out of other countries, pay off our debts first, then worry about paying people to be professional students.

 

Why can't you answer a simple question? You dismissed the premises that when paying for college, where will it end? But you did answer in the other post, you are ok with people being profession students for life.

 

Give me a simple question.

You are all over the place with mindless prattle and you evoke no economic analysis to promote your point-of-view.

THIS IS AN ECONOMICS FORUM ... !

 

I'd love that! Imagine how many people would stay alive if there wasn't any US imperialism