80% of pandemic victims placed on ventilators die - mass euthanasia for the elderly the infirm and t

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Ddyad, May 3, 2020.

  1. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    A "treatment that kills 80% of patients is at best malpractice, or involuntary euthanasia.

    "Doctors are still figuring out the best ways to care for patients with COVID-19, the illness caused by the novel coronavirus.
    Over the past few weeks, as the virus has spread in New York City, one hospital has started keeping patients off ventilators longer, hoping that they'll be able to recover faster than if they were intubated.
    Others are trying tactics like placing patients on their stomachs to help their lungs better circulate oxygen."

    "The Associated Press reported on Wednesday that New York City officials said 80% of patients on ventilators there had died."
    BUSINESS INSIDER, Coronavirus patients are dying on ventilators. It's leading to a debate over the best way to get oxygen into their damaged lungs., By Lydia Ramsey Apr 10, 2020.
    https://www.businessinsider.com/ventilator-high-flow-oxygen-coronavirus-patients-ards-dying-2020-4
     
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  2. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Moronic statement unless you can prove that even 1% of the patients would've survived if they were not placed on ventilators.
    It's like claiming insulin shots kill diabetes patients because not everybody survives diabetes.
     
  3. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, it may not be 'proof' yet... but:

    "... It turns out ventilators appear to be killing coronavirus patients en masse.

    AP: “Some doctors moving away from ventilators for virus patients”

    Dr. Cameron Kyle-Sidell, an ER and critical care doctor from New York City, concluded that ventilators were doing more harm than good over a week ago and suggested oxygen as a superior treatment.

    The Italians have reportedly come to a similar conclusion. ..."

    https://www.eutimes.net/2020/04/new-data-suggests-its-ventilators-that-are-killing-people/
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2020
  4. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    It's a deathalator, not a ventilator.
    Even for non COVID-19 respiratory patients the thing kills at around 50%.
     
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  5. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    Diabetes patients usually live more than a couple weeks on insulin. e.g., a 55-year-old male with type 2 diabetes could expect to live for another 13.2–21.1 years.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2020
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  6. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    And thousands of Covid patients in full respiratory distress die when they are NOT placed on respirators.
    Within hours.
     
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  7. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    91% of the 1000+ patients given hydroxychloroquine+ in the French study survived.

    When did hospitals, NIH and CDC know that ventilating patients with the novel coronavirus was more deadly than the disease?

    "Over a week, Maimonides Medical Center made an unexpected change to how it treated coronavirus patients.

    Initially, the Brooklyn hospital was racing to put patients on ventilators early on. Now it's relying more on high-flow oxygen therapy, in which oxygen is delivered into the lungs of patients through the nose.

    The hope is that by keeping patients breathing on their own and able to move longer, doctors will be able to open up their lungs more than if they were sedated and on a ventilator."
    BUSINESS INSIDER, Coronavirus patients are dying on ventilators. It's leading to a debate over the best way to get oxygen into their damaged lungs., By Lydia Ramsey Apr 10, 2020.
    https://www.businessinsider.com/ventilator-high-flow-oxygen-coronavirus-patients-ards-dying-2020-4
     
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  8. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    One dying patient was able to yank the tube out and save his life when the drugs wore off enough to let him act in self defense.

    "Maimonides' decision is at the center of a growing debate in medicine about the best way to treat patients with the most severe form of COVID-19, the illness caused by the coronavirus — those who are struggling to breathe. Some doctors are putting them on ventilators as early as possible, before their condition deteriorates to the point where they're less stable and there are more risks involved. Others say patients should be kept off the machines as long as possible because of the complications and side effects of going through the invasive ventilation process."
    BUSINESS INSIDER, Coronavirus patients are dying on ventilators. It's leading to a debate over the best way to get oxygen into their damaged lungs., By Lydia Ramsey Apr 10, 2020.
    https://www.businessinsider.com/ventilator-high-flow-oxygen-coronavirus-patients-ards-dying-2020-4
     
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  9. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Source?
     
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  10. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Good source, confirming what had to have been quickly obvious to care givers - ventilators are killing almost all of the patients hospitalized during this pandemic for a disease that has a relatively low mortality rate.
     
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  11. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    If 80% of diabetics who take insulin shots die as opposed to 20% who don’t, would you take insulin?
     
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  12. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Would you believe that 80% of diabetics who take insulin shots die without medical studies backing the claim up - would you believe anecdotal stories on the internet?
     
  13. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    It's the modern equivalent of bloodletting and placing leeches. Some people survived that also.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2020
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  14. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    It may be more than just stupidity. Do you know much higher the reimbursement is for patients that are put on ventilators?
     
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  15. jay runner

    jay runner Banned

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    Money makes the world go 'round. Somewhere I read it was $27,000 to hook the $38,000 contraption up.
     
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  16. TheImmortal

    TheImmortal Well-Known Member

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    Not necessarily but I also wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand.
     
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  17. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    And when patients are unconscious on ventilators they do not ask for help or even touch the call button.
    Fortunately for one patient the neglect resulted in the fentanyl wearing off enough for him to rip out the tube and save his life.

    "After 14 days on a ventilator, COVID-19 patient Robert Sidberry took his health into his own hands and ripped the plastic tube out of his mouth, setting off all kinds of alarms and bells.

    Turned out, doctors found he could breathe sufficiently without the device and, after another week of recovery, he went home.

    But COVID-19 leveled such a beating on his lungs and body that the 55-year-old said he came home April 15 and spent several days in bed hooked to an oxygen machine. He couldn’t walk, not for more than a few steps, he said.

    He started the recommended physical rehabilitation, some arm twirls, but they left him so weak he needed the oxygen again."
    NEWSDAY EXCLUSIVE, Recovery from COVID-19 is a battle all its own, former hospital patients say, By Craig Schneider, By April 30, 2020.
    https://www.newsday.com/news/health/coronavirus/ventilator-rehabilitation-at-home-care-1.44282644
     
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  18. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Diabetics with the Wuhan Novel Coronavirus would clearly have been better off avoiding hospitals where they were intubated to death.
     
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  19. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Isn't amazing that the mortality rate for this pandemic disease is so law given that the preferred treatment kills 80% of patients? The death rate would be even closer to zero if hospitals had stopped killing almost everyone unfortunate enough to go to a hospital for help.

    "But if the state’s numbers indicated the true incidence of the virus, they would mean that more than 1.7 million people in New York City, and more than 2.6 million people statewide, have already been infected.

    That is far greater than the 250,000 confirmed cases of the virus itself that the state has recorded.

    It would also mean that the fatality rate from the virus was relatively low, about 0.5 percent, Mr. Cuomo said."
    THE NEW YORK TIMES, Cuomo Says 21% of Those Tested in N.Y.C. Had Virus Antibodies: Live Updates, The preliminary data suggests that many more New Yorkers may have been infected than was previously believed., Governor Cuomo, Transcript of briefing, 4/23/20.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/23/nyregion/coronavirus-new-york-update.html
     
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  20. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    This was well known before the virus hit. Once you get onto positive pressure ventilation, the long term prognosis is not good. It is bad for your lungs. So is pure oxygen. It is called oxygen toxicity.

    Now, the doctors face a dilemma. Have the patient die right away, because they are suffocating, or have a chance of them dying in a few days because of ventilator induced lung damage. It's called being between a rock and a hard place.
     
  21. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    What is the mortality rate for all patients placed on ventilators?
    80%?
     
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  22. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Well except for the fact that no one survives diabetes. All you can do is prolong the inevitable. Then again. That's true of life in general. We are indeed all going to die, just not necessarily of covid or diabetes.
     
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  23. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    Are you serious? LOL! The world is a very confusing place for you, isn't it.
     
  24. Lesh

    Lesh Well-Known Member

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    All you're saying is what a mother f er this horror is.

    Ventilators are THE response to the kind of respiratory distress this thing causes.

    Unfortunately it appears to SO damage the lungs that vents can at times increase that damage.

    They are adjusting treatment to simply providing oxygen but normally that is not enough for the symptoms evident

    Again...this thing is a bastard.
     
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  25. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Fact is that we are still learning about how to treat this disease. And there is still much to learn. As I said before, every day we learn something new. So the more time we give ourselves to understand how to treat and how not to treat this, the more lives will be saved.

    The worst thing that can happen now is that either dopes keep gathering in the streets to protest. In that way getting themselves and those they come in contact with infected. Or that governors will start opening the states too soon. Unfortunately both are happening right now. This is likely to cause a second wave before medical professionals have learned enough to deal with it properly. And our President is the main voice pushing for both
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2020

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