80% of pandemic victims placed on ventilators die - mass euthanasia for the elderly the infirm and t

Doctors have finally learned to stop putting patients on ventilators eartly unless there is no alternative.
The side effects of placing patients on ventilators are well known severe. The mortality rate for all patients is about 50% - 80% for patients hospitalized with the Wuhan Coronavirus.

""There had been a tendency earlier on in the crisis for people to put patients on ventilators early, because patients were deteriorating very quickly," Chaddha said. "That is something that most of us have stepped away from doing.

"We let these patients tolerate a little more hypoxia [oxygen deficiency]. We give them more oxygen. We don't intubate them until they are truly in respiratory distress," Chaddha said. "If you do this correctly, if you put somebody on the ventilator when they need to be put on the ventilator and not prematurely, then the ventilator is the only option.""
U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT, HEALTH NEWS, Are Ventilators Helping or Harming COVID-19 Patients?, Mechanical ventilators mark a crisis point in a patient's COVID-19 course, and questions are now being raised as to whether the machines can cause harm., By Dennis Thompson, HealthDay Reporter, April 15, 2020.
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-...tilators-helping-or-harming-covid-19-patients

 

Placing a patient on ventilation has always been associated with damage to the lungs and other very severe side effects including kidney damage blood clots and brain damage.
That is why hospitals finally started to delay placing Wuhan Coronavirus patients on ventilators except as a last resort.

"Many who go on a ventilator die, and those who survive likely will face ongoing breathing problems caused by either the machine or the damage done by the virus. The problem is that the longer people are on ventilation, the more likely they are to suffer complications related to machine-assisted breathing.

Recognizing this, some intensive care units have started to delay putting a COVID-19 patient on a ventilator to the last possible moment, when it is truly a life-or-death decision, said Dr. Udit Chaddha, an interventional pulmonologist with Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City."
U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT, HEALTH NEWS, Are Ventilators Helping or Harming COVID-19 Patients?, Mechanical ventilators mark a crisis point in a patient's COVID-19 course, and questions are now being raised as to whether the machines can cause harm., By Dennis Thompson, HealthDay Reporter, April 15, 2020.
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-...tilators-helping-or-harming-covid-19-patients

 

You REALLY REALLY do not have an in-depth knowledge of this do you?

A) look up “cytokine storm”
B) look up “sepsis”
C) look up ARDS
D) look up VILi

You haven’t read your own link have you?

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...or-the-elderly-the-infirm-and-t.572026/page-5

 

Read again - more carefully.

You have just pasted up an example of a defender of the use of ventilators who does not deny that ventilators may be killing patients.

"I think for the most part it's not related to the ventilator," Khouli said. "They're dying on the ventilator and not necessarily dying because of being on a ventilator."

This does not support your position.

 

Let us look at one of the papers from front line Intensivists in Europe

https://ccforum.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13054-020-02880-z

Remembering that we did know the pathophysiology of this disease and this paper outlines the clinical course learnt the hard way. The ICU community has learnt from this and adjusted treatment accordingly.

 

Neither does it support yours

Read again where it says “dying on the ventilator not necessarily because of the ventilator”

The damage you are citing is happening because COVID is attaching to the ACE receptors within the body, triggering inflammation and what is known as a “cytokine storm” this in turn appears to be triggering microemboli throughout the body. Admittedly the mechanism for microemboli is unclear but this is occurring whether or not the patient is ventilated and is occurring in fully anti-coagulated patients.

I keep asking and not getting a response

Do you think that this is deliberate on behalf of the medical profession that they WANT to kill patients?

 

And we are still learning

What we discovered early is that ECMO (heart lung bypass) the only other strategy that might help if the oxygen is that low, does NOT save the patient Again we are unsure of why

 

Are you accusing the medical profession of gross mass incompetence?

 

A source that is NOT repeat NOT a published medical research paper and is written by a journalist with limited understanding of intensive care medicine?

 

Yes, the ICU has learned to stop placing Wuhan Coronavirus patients on ventilation unless there is no alternative.

Should they have done that earlier? I think so.

"Many who go on a ventilator die, and those who survive likely will face ongoing breathing problems caused by either the machine or the damage done by the virus.

The problem is that the longer people are on ventilation, the more likely they are to suffer complications related to machine-assisted breathing.

Recognizing this, some intensive care units have started to delay putting a COVID-19 patient on a ventilator to the last possible moment, when it is truly a life-or-death decision, said Dr. Udit Chaddha, an interventional pulmonologist with Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City."
U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT, HEALTH NEWS, Are Ventilators Helping or Harming COVID-19 Patients?, Mechanical ventilators mark a crisis point in a patient's COVID-19 course, and questions are now being raised as to whether the machines can cause harm., By Dennis Thompson, HealthDay Reporter, April 15, 2020.
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-...tilators-helping-or-harming-covid-19-patients

 

Your quote from my source supports my position:
"I think for the most part it's not related to the ventilator," Khouli said. "They're dying on the ventilator and not necessarily dying because of being on a ventilator."

The "for the most part" concedes that the ventilators kill some patients. That is a good start toward admitting that a therapy that ends with 80% of the patients dead is hard to justify.

What is the mortality rate for patients treated with hydroxychloroquine?

Many who hold themselves out to be "progressives" openly advocate killing people as a matter of political expediency. Surely you know that.

 

Of course I am. The medical profession, historically, has often been grossly incompetent.
Are you not aware of that?

 

More evasion, my sources quotes medical professionals involved directly in the treatment of the victims of the CCP Wuhan Coronavirus Pandemic.

 

No they have cherry picked statements to feed sensationalism

 

No I am not

But if you want to use Homeopathy to heal Sepsis then go for it just do not try it on anyone else

Cherry picking a statement from one “expert” does not a research paper make

 

Can you prove they wouldn't have died from something other than COVID?

Then why do you assume COVID killed them?

Trying to have it both ways, are we?

 

What makes them a "COVID patient" as opposed to a "diabetes patient" or a "morbidly obese patient" or a "COPD patient" or just an all-around "dumpster fire patient"?

If someone had 999,999,999 dollars and I handed that person a dollar, would that mean I "caused" that person to become a billionaire? Would you go around saying, "He only became a billionaire because of that guy Ethereal"? Because that's about as stupid as claiming that COVID "caused" a bed-ridden 90-year-old to die.

 

How many research papers do you want me to cite?

When it walks like duck and quacks like a duck we do not assume it is an Elephant

 

Are you seriously trying to suggest that over 60,000 with chronic illnesses suddenly decided to die all at the same time?

 

Why? Are you incapable of using your own words?

I ask again: If someone is already suffering from multiple serious health problems and is over the age of 85, then how do you determine COVID was the "cause" of death as opposed to any number of other causes? At the end of the day, a lot of these "cause of death" assessments are just guesses. And it's obvious that they're being strongly encouraged to guess COVID as the cause of death.

 

The overwhelming majority of deaths attributed to COVID come from people who are already very sick, very old, or some combination of the two.

In other words, most of them were already on the verge of death, leading miserable lives bereft of meaning, joy, or happiness.

Robbing healthy people of their freedom and their time in order to prolong the meager existence of a bed-ridden 85-year-old is grotesque beyond belief.

 

Seriously, how vicious do you have to be in order to force young, healthy people to put their lives on hold indefinitely just to protect a bunch of vegetables in nursing homes?

I hope when I'm older, I never become that disgustingly selfish. I hope when I'm older, I celebrate the young and encourage them to enjoy themselves as much as possible. I hope I don't become like some decrepit vampire robbing them of their life force in order to prolong my own existence.

 

Really?

Prove it



It is not that the elderly are the ones getting sick it is that they are less likely to survive but we are still seeing deaths in the younger cohort and those are the ones taking up hospital beds

 

In fact, doctors are very slow to stop engaging in malpractice that has become accepted and routine.
For instance MDs continued to infect women during childbirth and thus kill them by refusing to clean either their hands or their instruments.

Are you saying that hydroxychloroquine is a "homeopathic" remedy?
And there you go again - rejecting expert opinion.

 

I see.
So, your position now is: MSM = Fake News.
Tyvm.