9/11: Controlled demolition proven !

leftysergeant · Apr 30, 2013

Kokomojojo said: ↑

yeh they both have structural strength too
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Now go tell little Dickie that you cannot predict the behavior of one substance based on another that is merely made up of the same elements.

Kokomojojo · Apr 30, 2013

leftysergeant said: ↑

Now go tell little Dickie that you cannot predict the behavior of one substance based on another that is merely made up of the same elements.
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yes and you can tell jimmy the slime that you most certainly can

9/11 was an inside job · Jun 1, 2013

David Cena said: ↑

The controled demolition theory developped on the website of "Architects and engineers for 9/11 truth" is really not a conspiracy theory. It actually gives an alternative explanation of the "collapse" of the 3 WTC buildings which takes into account all the relevant facts collected from visual observation, forensic evidence and a great number of trustworthy testimonies collected by the New York Times.

The purpose of this topic is to make a synthesis of those three sources of evidence in order to convince the reader that the controled demolition theory is currently the only one which can be accepted as physically possible, scientifically founded, corroborated, coherent and credible.

The first step is to prove the NIST report wrong. This is done very well by the foremost experts who reached a wide consensus on the physical impossibility of explaining the collapse of the towers by a crushing pile driver, the upper floors of the towers, which would cause a collapse of the floors beneath it only by its gravitational mass. Over 1500 of them signed the following petition: http://www2.ae911truth.org/signpetition.php

The analysis and rebutal of the gravitational collapse theory is in the documents of the website ( http://www.ae911truth.org/ ) and summarized in the following film: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW6mJOqRDI4

A general synthesis of all the arguments meant for a wide public is in the following film:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQgVCj7q49o

I don't expect readers to research this enormous mass of data without me proving that is worth the investment of time and energy, therefore I want to outline specific elements which are particularly convincing.

The three sources of evidence are:
-visual observation of the collapse analysed by architects and structural engineers on the basis of their knowledge of a few basic laws of physics applied to the design of a skyscraper.
-forensic analysis of the debris and rubble, including thermal and chemical evidence of the use of nanothermites based on documents from several different sources including FEMA, NASA and corroborated by the testimonies of firefighters as well as first responders.
- Over a hundred testimonies of firefighters who witnessed series of explosions visually, auditively, felt the blast, the heat, the projections and observed walls and floors collapsing in one tower as a consequence ot the other one exploding. Their competent structural analysis is also relevant. I will copy and paste the most significant extracts with their source and page.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/h ... ll_01.html

Other facts are significant like WTC7 collapsing at free fall speed some 7 hours after the two first towers although it wasn't hit by a plane, or the structural imperative given to John Skilling that the Twin Towers had to be able to resist the impact of airliners.

TESTIMONIES OF FIREFIGHTERS ARE THE MOST CONVINCING STARTING POINT

Those were recorded by the New York Times there:
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/h ... ll_01.html

Here are the most striking extracts mentioning seeing series of explosions, hearing them, feeling the blast, the heat, the projections, and how a vertical collapse was completely unexpected.

DESHORE, KARIN p.15 :

"Somewhere around the middle of the World Trade Center there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash. Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode. The popping sound, and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building. I went inside and told everybody that the other building or there was an explosion occuring up there and I said I think we have another major explosion. I don't know if we are all going to be safe here."

BANACISKI, RICHARD p.3-4 :

"We were there I don't know, maybe 10, 15 minutes and then I just remember there was just an explosion. It seemed like on television they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions. Everybody just said run and we all turned around and we ran into the parking garage because that's basically where we were. Running forward would be running towards it. Not thinking that this building is coming down. We just thought there was going to be a big explosion, stuff was going to come down."

GREGGORY, STEPHEN p.14-16 :

"We both for whatever reason -- again, I don't know how valid this is with everything that was going on at that particular point in time, but for some reason I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because I thought -- at that time I didn't know what it was. I mean, it could have been as a result of the building collapsing, things exploding, but I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down.
Q. Was that on the lower level of the building or up where the fire was?
A. No, the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw. And I didn't broach the topic to him, but he asked me. He said I don't know if I'm crazy, but I just wanted to ask you because you were standing right next to me. He said did you see anything by the building? And I said what do you mean by see
anything? He said did you see any flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them, too. I don't know if that means anything. I mean, I equate it to the building coming down and pushing things down, it could have been electrical explosions, it could have been whatever. But it's just strange that two people sort of say the same thing and neither one of us talked to each other about it.

.....

Q. On the television pictures it appeared as well, before the first collapse, that there was an explosion up on the upper floors.
A. I know about the explosion on the upper floors. This was like eye level. I didn't have to go like
this. Because I was looking this way. I'm not going to say it was on the first floor or the second floor, but somewhere in that area I saw to me what appeared to be flashes. I don't know how far down this was already. I mean, we had heard the noise but, you know, I don't know."

CACHIA, EDWARD p.5 :

"As my officer and I were looking at the south tower, it just gave. It actually gave at a lower floor, not the floor where the plane hit, because we originally had thought there was like an internal detonation explosives because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down."

RIVERA DANIEL, p.9 :

"At first I thought it was -- do you ever see professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear "Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop" ? That's exactly that -- because I thought it was that. When I heard that frigging noise, that's when I saw the building coming down."

CARLSEN, CRAIG p.6

"I guess about three minutes later you just heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions. At the time. I didn't realize what it was. We ...realized later after talking and finding out that it was the floors collapsing to where the plane had hit.
We then realized the building started to come down."

TURILLI, THOMAS p.4

"The door closed, they went up, and it just seemed a couple seconds and all of a sudden you just heard like it almost actually that day sounded like bombs going off, like boom, boom, boom, like seven or eight, and then... just a huge wind gust just came and my officer just actually took all of us and just threw us down on the ground and kind of just jumped on top of us, laid on top of us."

P.6: "At that point we were kind of standing on the street and I looked to my left and actually I noticed the tower was down. I didn't even know what it was when we were in there. It just seemed like a huge explosion."

SWITHERS, JAY p.5 :

"At that point I looked back and most of the people who were triaged in that area with the triage tags on them got up and ran. I took a quick glance at the building and while I didn't see it falling, I saw a large section of it blasting out, which led me to believe it was just an explosion. I thought it was a secondary device, but I knew that we had to go."

ROGERS , KENNETH p.3-4 :

"Meanwhile we were standing there with about five companies and we were just waiting for our assignment and then there was an explosion in the south tower, which according to this map, this exposure just blew out in flames. A lot of guys left at that point. I kept watching. Floor after floor after floor. One floor under another after another and when it hit about the fifth floor, I figured it was a bomb, because it looked like a synchronized deliberate kind of thing. I was there in '93."

MURRAY, KEVIN p.15 :

"When the tower started -- there was a big explosion that I heard and someone screamed that it was coming down and I looked away and I saw all the windows domino -- you know, dominoeing up and then come down."

CURRAN, PAUL p.5:

"With that, all a sudden the tower went completely -- a horrendous noise, a very, very tremendous explosion, and a very heavy wind came through the tower. The wind almost knocked you down. We were on the north side of the elevator banks, and they kind of broke up that wind. At first I thought the upper floors were caving, coming in. But then kind of like all thought there was too much dust down there, too much wind downstairs. We really didn't know what happened."

DE SIMONE, GEORGE

P.5
"After that, I got out of there as quick as Icould because the building was decaying. I mean, there was fire coming out of it, fire dropping down, and at that point I think we started to notice bodies dropping from the buildings. In that amount of time, and I can't tell you how long the frame was, maybe about a half hour, maybe 20 minutes, maybe two hours, we saw multiple bodies. I probably counted 20 bodies that had jumped from the windows.

P.5-6
"As we got back up the street -- they had told me from the command post to just wait, that they would tell us what to do. The next thing I know, we heard a little bit of a rumbling, and then white powder came from the first collapsed building. I thought it was an explosion initially. We got hit with the powder. We tried to run. We got hit with the powder. It took a few minutes to clear."

P.7:
"Right after that, in my mind, I heard a rumbling, and it was almost as if it was the roller coaster at Coney Island. It seemed like a metal clanging on metal sound. Then we saw a black cloud come out, and I told everybody to run. We ran as fast as we could as far north as we could. At that point we had gotten separated. We couldn't outrun a cloud. As for me, I got knocked down. I thought it was the day I was going to die. I got knocked down and I put my mask on and it was full of debris in my face piece. When I started inhaling, I took a lot of stuff in from whatever was caught in my mask. I thought I was going to have a heart attack initially."

"After that, I still thought it was an explosion. I thought it was some kind of thermal explosion where I'm either going to get burnt -- and I had kind of ideas that it was going to be something like Hiroshima where all this heat was coming at me and we were going to get burnt -- or if the heat didn't burn me, I thought that all the parts coming out of this building, the windows, metal, all the things like that, that I might be severed in half. It turned completely black."

P.10: "I don't think we understood the magnitude of what was going on. I was fearful that there were bombs in the building. That was my first thought, being the military kind of guy that I am."

GATES, GARRY p.6-7 :

"Then, again, no idea what time -- I have a watch, but I'm trying to move everything
together at the same time. I looked up, and the building exploded, the building that we were very close to, which was one tower. The whole top came off like a volcano.

Q. What was that, was that the second plane hitting?
A. I realized later, which actually I realized in talking with people over a period of two weeks, that had to be the collapse, because since that was the north tower which was hit by a plane first, the other tower was hit by a plane just before we got there. So now both towers have been hit by a plane. The north tower was burning.
So the explosion, what I realized later, had to be the start of the collapse.It was the way the building appeared to blowout from both sides. I'm looking at the face of it, and all we see is the two sides of the building just blowing out and coming apart like this, as I said, like the top of a volcano.

CHARLES, JASON :

p.15: "I look over my shoulder and I says, Oh, (*)(*)(*)(*), and then I turned around and looked up and that's when I saw the tower coming down. I saw the -- it looked like the top maybe 70, 60 floors coming off the building, and I had stood there thinking maybe the towers were not going to hit me. Then I looked closer and two pieces of debris fly over my head about 40, 50 stories up, flying over my head and I was like, (*)(*)(*)(*), I'm out of here.

p.29: "We start walking back there and then I heard a ground level explosion and I'm like holy (*)(*)(*)(*), and then you heard that twisting metal wreckage again. Then I said (*)(*)(*)(*) and everybody started running and I started running behind them, and we get to the door."

p.40 "So at that point now we were just waiting for patients and nobody was coming in. It was like you know then we ran into another lieutenant, lieutenant Davis I think, he's from battalion 4 if I'm not mistaken.
(Tape side two)
-- towers and I heard six loud explosions, and those six loud explosions changed my mind real quick and I went back over to the triage center and it was like you know what ? Let me wait here. I had no helmet. I had no helmet. I had nothing that would have protected me from anything that hit me in my head. So I stayed where I was."

SMIOUSKAS, RICHARD :

P.7: "I was photographing the fire from the roof. I had a long lens on the camera, and I had people in the windows. It looked like they were being -- they weren't actually jumping. One or two people I saw, they seemed like they were being forced out by the people behind them. There was half a dozen faces. In between the smoke you could see people. I guess they were all trying to get air, and this guy was actually standing in the window, standing in the frame with each hand on each frame and he kind of like got nudged out."

P.8: "I glanced out, and I saw the people hitting the pavement. I could still hear what I think was people hitting the roof. You could hear explosions or thuds on the roof.
Q. Overhead?
A. Overhead, landing on the roof of Six World Trade Center. I turned around, and where the glass was clear I heard another explosion and I turned around and looked at the glass and there was just chunks that were splattered with blood. There was actually chunks of I guess human flesh was just dripping down. I looked and the person that just landed there just exploded like a watermelon. The largest piece I saw of the person was maybe a hand. They just splattered like a pancake.

P.9: "I turned around and I started going back towards West Street. It looked like an earthquake.
The ground was shaking. I fell to the floor. My camera bag opened up. The cameras went skidding across the floor. The windows started exploding in. I just rolled into the corner to protect myself from the glass. The next thing I knew, it was pitch-black."

AND HERE IS A LONGER LIST:

John Sudnik p.4
Timothy Julian p.10
Michael Ober p.4
Frank Cruthers p.4
Gregg Brady p.7
Craig Carlsen p.5-6
Joseph Meola p.5
Daniel Rivera p.9
Timothy Burke, p.8-9
Edward Cachia, p.5
Stephen Gregory, p.14-16.
Karin Deshore, p.15
Richard Banaciski, p.3-4
Thomas Fitzpatrick, p.13-14
Jay Swithers, p.5
James Curran, p.10-11
Brian Dixon, p.15
William Wall, p.9
Kenneth Rogers, p.3-4
William Reynolds, p.8
Murray, kevin p.15
Coyle John p.8-11
Curran, Paul p.5
Walsh James p.10
Hoppey, Timothy p.5
John Dellendick p.5
Grabher, Steve p.10-11
Coutsouros, Dean p.3
Richiusa, Patrick p.10
De Simone, George p. 5-7-10
Moriarty, David p.7
Gombo, Jerry p.12-13
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sure was great watching you take all the official conspiracy theory apologists lies here to school.you and scott did an excelletn job on that.well done.

leftysergeant · Jun 1, 2013

9/11 was an inside job said: ↑

sure was great watching you take all the official conspiracy theory apologists lies here to school.you and scott did an excelletn job on that.well done.
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You schooled noone. Deshore, for instance, thinks that the dick who compiled that least is an idiot.

RtWngaFraud · Jun 6, 2013

leftysergeant said: ↑

You schooled noone. Deshore, for instance, thinks that the dick who compiled that least is an idiot.
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Example above: No matter what is posted, it will ALWAYS be discredited by certain folks. ALWAYS. "Cite the source" is merely rhetoric. It's an exercise in futility when the agenda is a foregone conclusion and predetermined, irrespective of the issues raised or by whom (so long as it's "officially" consistent). ROFL!! It's far beyond absurdity.

Hannibal · Jun 6, 2013

RtWngaFraud said: ↑

Example above: No matter what is posted, it will ALWAYS be discredited by certain folks. ALWAYS. "Cite the source" is merely rhetoric. It's an exercise in futility when the agenda is a foregone conclusion and predetermined, irrespective of the issues raised or by whom (so long as it's "officially" consistent). ROFL!! It's far beyond absurdity.
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If truthers would crawl out from under Alex Jones' sweaty belly and look at evidence ...

RtWngaFraud · Jun 6, 2013

Hannibal said: ↑

If truthers would crawl out from under Alex Jones' sweaty belly and look at evidence ...
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Truthers have. It's the shills that have a problem with the evidence.

Hannibal · Jun 6, 2013

RtWngaFraud said: ↑

Truthers have. It's the shills that have a problem with the evidence.
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I see. I'll re-phrase:

If Alex Jones' paid shills would crawl out from under his sweaty belly, wipe their mouths and look at the evidence ... they could discard their hats o' foil.

RtWngaFraud · Jun 6, 2013

Hannibal said: ↑

I see. I'll re-phrase:

If Alex Jones' paid shills would crawl out from under his sweaty belly, wipe their mouths and look at the evidence ... they could discard their hats o' foil.
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Well then..please allow me to re-phrase.

It's the shills who try and continually gang tackle truth.

Hannibal · Jun 6, 2013

RtWngaFraud said: ↑

Well then..please allow me to re-phrase.

It's the shills who try and continually gang tackle truth.
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Alex Jones' paid shills? Yes indeed, they certainly do.

RtWngaFraud · Jun 6, 2013

Hannibal said: ↑

Alex Jones' paid shills? Yes indeed, they certainly do.
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No sugarlips. I meant the paid players that hang out in airports.

Hannibal · Jun 6, 2013

RtWngaFraud said: ↑

No sugarlips. I meant the paid players that hang out in airports.
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You hang out in airports? Oh, that's right ... you said you hang out in airport bars, looking for fellow shills.

RtWngaFraud · Jun 6, 2013

Hannibal said: ↑

You hang out in airports? Oh, that's right ... you said you hang out in airport bars, looking for fellow shills.
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No, no...you're confused yet again boss. You answered that when I questioned you being available 24/7 to respond to this forum, and why you had so much extra time to do so (apparently), and you answered (paraphrasing) that you were "in between flights" and you "spend a lot of time in airports". Now, please don't try and ban me again for telling the truth. Thanks in advance boss.

- - - Updated - - -

Hannibal said: ↑

You hang out in airports? Oh, that's right ... you said you hang out in airport bars, looking for fellow shills.
Click to expand...

No, no...you're confused yet again boss. You answered that when I questioned you being available 24/7 to respond to this forum, and why you had so much extra time to do so (apparently), and you answered (paraphrasing) that you were "in between flights" and you "spend a lot of time in airports". Now, please don't try and ban me again for telling the truth. Thanks in advance boss.

Hannibal · Jun 6, 2013

RtWngaFraud said: ↑

No, no...you're confused yet again boss. You answered that when I questioned you being available 24/7 to respond to this forum, and why you had so much extra time to do so (apparently), and you answered (paraphrasing) that you were "in between flights" and you "spend a lot of time in airports". Now, please don't try and ban me again for telling the truth. Thanks in advance boss.
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No sweetie, you have it backwards again. I've never had you banned even once, and just because you keep repeating the same lie over and over does not make it true. I don't 'hang out in airports'. That's something you have convinced yourself of.

Perhaps you'll feel better when the weekly Alex Jones check comes in. You never call in sick for that day of work, do you?

RtWngaFraud · Jun 6, 2013

Hannibal said: ↑

No sweetie, you have it backwards again. I've never had you banned even once, and just because you keep repeating the same lie over and over does not make it true. I don't 'hang out in airports'. That's something you have convinced yourself of.

Perhaps you'll feel better when the weekly Alex Jones check comes in. You never call in sick for that day of work, do you?
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Well, that's what you said pumpkin. Maybe you were consuming adult beverages and don't recall. I dunno but, that what you said.

I'd gladly work for Alex. It's a damned fine cause he engages in. I'm sure he doesn't need my assistance though. I would be honored to do it though, and no, I'd probably never call in sick.

Hannibal · Jun 6, 2013

RtWngaFraud said: ↑

Well, that's what you said pumpkin. Maybe you were consuming adult beverages and don't recall. I dunno but, that what you said.

I'd gladly work for Alex. It's a damned fine cause he engages in. I'm sure he doesn't need my assistance though. I would be honored to do it though, and no, I'd probably never call in sick.
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Never said that sweetie. You did.

RtWngaFraud · Jun 6, 2013

Hannibal said: ↑

Never said that sweetie. You did.
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Okay then sweetcheeks. Agree to disagree once more I suppose.

Hannibal · Jun 6, 2013

RtWngaFraud said: ↑

Okay then sweetcheeks. Agree to disagree once more I suppose.
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You could always link to evidence that I said such a thing ... but you and I both know you can't, because what you claim isn't true.

RtWngaFraud · Jun 6, 2013

Hannibal said: ↑

You could always link to evidence that I said such a thing ... but you and I both know you can't, because what you claim isn't true.
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Nah,it's because the incidents (multiple times) aren't recorded here prior to 2011. You're safe on that one (for now). Good job.

Hannibal · Jun 6, 2013

RtWngaFraud said: ↑

Nah,it's because the incidents (multiple times) aren't recorded here prior to 2011. You're safe on that one (for now). Good job.
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Nice cop out. Keep covering your rear, Alex has taught you well.

Kokomojojo · Jun 6, 2013

RtWngaFraud said: ↑

No, no...you're confused yet again boss. You answered that when I questioned you being available 24/7 to respond to this forum, and why you had so much extra time to do so (apparently), and you answered (paraphrasing) that you were "in between flights" and you "spend a lot of time in airports". Now, please don't try and ban me again for telling the truth. Thanks in advance boss.

- - - Updated - - -

No, no...you're confused yet again boss. You answered that when I questioned you being available 24/7 to respond to this forum, and why you had so much extra time to do so (apparently), and you answered (paraphrasing) that you were "in between flights" and you "spend a lot of time in airports". Now, please don't try and ban me again for telling the truth. Thanks in advance boss.
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wow good memory!

LoneStrSt8 · Jun 6, 2013

Kokomojojo said: ↑

wow good memory!
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Wow.....hardly saw your lips move,fraud!

RtWngaFraud · Jun 8, 2013

Hannibal said: ↑

Nice cop out. Keep covering your rear, Alex has taught you well.
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I can't reference what isn't available to reference boss. You're in control here so, you should relax a bit more. Chasing me around from thread to thread only makes you look petty.

Hannibal · Jun 8, 2013

RtWngaFraud said: ↑

I can't reference what isn't available to reference boss. You're in control here so, you should relax a bit more. Chasing me around from thread to thread only makes you look petty.
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We all know you just made it up, sweetie. No need to be all defensive.

RtWngaFraud · Jun 8, 2013

Hannibal said: ↑

We all know you just made it up, sweetie. No need to be all defensive.
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Re-writing history is indeed your specialty. Just highlighting the obvious twinkletoes.

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