911 Motive

Discussion in '9/11' started by Edial, Jan 1, 2016.

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  1. Edial

    Edial Active Member Past Donor

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    OK, and I have been looking at it since 2008.
    Up to 2008 I have been defending the official 911 story.

    Please tell me, do you truly believe that the passports claimed to be found by the Twins survived?
     
  2. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    And you know this for a fact because????

    Non sequitur, it's your claim, prove it. Have you? You made the claim.
     
  3. cjnewson88

    cjnewson88 Well-Known Member

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    Because the NTSB are on video discussing it.

    [video=youtube;fkqLTpnyBd0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkqLTpnyBd0[/video]




    Uh, you're the one who claimed no serial numbers were ever matched, not me. When you made this claim, did you contact the NTSB, FBI, or maybe even the NARA to discover whether or not you are right? Or did you just hear someone else say it and blindly follow because it already fitted your predetermined conspiracy conclusion?
     
  4. cjnewson88

    cjnewson88 Well-Known Member

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    Can't see why not, it wasn't in very good condition.. and plenty of other things survived the fireball and were ejected outside the other side of the building.. like the millions of pieces of paper we see floating around the South Tower after it was impacted.

    [​IMG]
    [video=youtube;vwKQXsXJDX4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwKQXsXJDX4[/video]
     
  5. Edial

    Edial Active Member Past Donor

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    Then you can believe anything.

    There are many 'holes' in a story and you believe each one is true.
    You believe Lloyd England despite of the fact that any jurywould throw out his testimony as a lie ... I was surprised you defended that one too ...

    The only thing I can say is that 911 official story became a religion ... and there are followers.
    It does not mean these people are stupid (I am not calling you that).
    It means they either have financial benefits, or went too far in to go back out or 911 official story became their item of faith.
     
  6. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Yes they (whoever they are) did discuss it (although I have no idea who was speaking) and I heard "hopefully, we'll be able to identify it". So did they? And if so, where's the list of found parts matched to the actual aircraft(s)? How about the chain of custody that goes along with it? And that looks like it was only at the Pentagon. But there were 4 alleged planes, how about the other 3?

    Yeah I did because I started my research 2 years earlier than you and have never found any evidence that any forensic investigation of the 4 planes (if any were ever conducted) ever definitively matched all the parts from all 4 alleged planes.

    No, did you? If you did, you should have the answer. You made the claim that this was done, perhaps you just made that up on faith.

    I don't have any "predetermined conspiracy conclusion" but it seems you do, the one you were fed by the US government. The only conspiracy fact I know of is that the US government has been covering up 9/11 for the last 2 administrations. And the missing list of parts matched to the planes is just one small piece of evidence (among thousands of other pieces of evidence) supporting that fact. If I had to contact every ****ing government agency for every missing piece of evidence regarding 9/11, which should all be readily available, I might as well be spending the rest of my life chasing ghosts, it would amount to the same thing. Perhaps you trust these pathological liars, I'm not that foolish.
     
  7. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    Then where did they go?

    EDIT: I'd appreciate a response to my other posts to you as well, CJ.
     
  8. cjnewson88

    cjnewson88 Well-Known Member

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    I presented evidence of AAL77 hitting the Pentagon and you reply with rhetoric? No wonder your movement is dead.

    And in your years of "research" you never once contacted the authorities involved and asked them? How much money did you spend on FOIA requests? Or did your years of research consist of google and youtube?

    You know what I did when I wanted to get information on an area I wasn't sure about? I searched out the raw information, and I talked to people. I talked to the man who filed dozens of FOIA requests through the NARA and FBI who then helped me attain all the original information that I required. Aside from spending weeks/months listening to the raw air traffic control and military audio records, I also talked to the military liaison officer from Boston Center to understand the military response that morning. I talked to the supervising air traffic controller at Pittsburg about UAL93. And others.

    Who did you talk to Bob? Where did you get the information for your "research" from?

    What do you mean where did they go? The outer wings smashed into a reinforced brick wall at 540mph, where do you think they went? Maybe this can give you an idea of what happened to the outer wings:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Edial

    Edial Active Member Past Donor

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    It's a violation to edit someone's post.
    Please do not edit my en-quoted text.
    You can respond to it, omit it, but please do not edit it.
    Thanks.
     
  10. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    So in other words, Mike Walters, one of the witnesses on your blog, was mistaken about what he saw?

    Furthermore, if the wings were not folded back and did not enter the building with the rest of the plane but were instead sheared off at the entry point, considering the dimensions of the wings, how does one account for the debris? From the pictures I've seen, the debris of the plane outside of the building is underwhelming. Do you subscribe to the "they were vaporized" argument? I'm not saying they wouldn't break apart, but no pieces that couldn't be handled by one person were found, correct? Doesn't that seem odd, considering all of the data we have on plane crashes, prior or since?
     
  11. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    Speaking of FOIA requests, what do you make of the radar data from 84th Radar Evaluation Squadron?
     
  12. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I thought you wanted to discuss 9/11, not you or me. But as an aside, with ALL your extremely meticulous research, did you happen to come across the list of airplane parts matched via their respective serial numbers to the exact aircraft for all 4 alleged planes on 9/11? How about just a few parts? I heard the total amount of parts recovered for all 4 planes could fit into the back of a truck. Anyway, that should have been easy for you considering all those places you contacted. I would certainly appreciate if you can provide the link though and so would thousands of others I'm sure. Thanks in advance.
     
  13. cjnewson88

    cjnewson88 Well-Known Member

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    Quite clearly, yes.

    Go to the bottom of my blog. I list a bunch of pictures in the final part of the blog. Don't focus on the what they photo is of, focus on the background. Look at the thousands of small pieces of debris scatter all over the background of those photos, and others. There was plenty.

    No official report has ever stated that AAL77 "vaporised".

    The rs3 program that it runs on can only be used on a computer with Windows xp so for this reason I never got to dig through all of it because my xp machine died a couple of years ago and im too lazy to dual-boot two operating systems on my new pc. But I did go through enough to get a picture of exactly what happened, and seems to make sense. Why do you ask?

    No, only because I never looked/asked for them. I already knew what planes crashed where from the radar data I attained so digging for reports on serial numbers bore no relevance to me whatsoever. You obviously have some kind of requirement for them, so why haven't you put in the spade work for them?

    I actually find it hilarious you guys even ask for this stuff, because if it had been available from day 1 you would have just called it faked/planted/staged like you do everything else, so what's the f*ing point?
     
  14. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Radar data does not physically match parts to planes. The blips on radar are not physical crashed airliners. This is why serial numbers from parts are matched to logs to clearly identify the exact airplane as part of the most basic forensic crash investigation. In this case, that had to be conducted for 4 alleged planes. So you accepted on faith what they wanted you to accept on faith or something else.

    I have a requirement for proof, especially given that the US government lied and covered up 9/11 on many, many fronts in the most blatant ways. Forget about matching parts to planes, no legitimate forensic investigation, not even a standard airline crash investigation, was ever conducted into the one of the most massive crimes ever perpetrated in the US. I know I would never get a straight answer or any answer from any alphabet government agency about anything about 9/11. And even if I did, I could never trust any answer I did get. That's the nature of that beast, the track record is very, very long.

    For you? There is no point because you're here defending the OCT daily. For the rest of us who demand a real investigation (which will never get of course), we are not fools. So keep laughing, we are not laughing.
     
  15. Shinebox

    Shinebox Well-Known Member

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    please stay on topic ... this thread is about motive ...

    for the record, the only motives I see for such an elaborate scheme are the Silverstein insurance payout or something so secret by the CIA in 7 that it had to be destroyed ... well maybe the natural gas pipeline in Afghanistan but that hasn't materialized yet so no ...
     
  16. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    Think of the ideologues that were in office at the time, and I'm meaning the hawks of the administration. There is a track record among their circle dating back many, many years prior to President George W. Bush taking office or even campaigning for it for that matter. What do you know about U.S. foreign policy? Furthermore, can you demonstrate knowledge about what happened after the Soviet Union collapsed leaving the U.S. as the sole and very much dominant military, economic, political and cultural superpower? And going back to the hawkish ideologues of the second Bush administration, do you know how they viewed the Middle East, Islamic or secular Arab terrorism and America's responsibility, both democratically and morally, to Israel? Does "A Clean Break" mean anything to you at all?
     
  17. Shinebox

    Shinebox Well-Known Member

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    yes, I am well aware of US foreign policy and how it is influenced by the Israeli lobby ... 9/11 did nothing to advance Israelis security ... I have discussed "A Clean Break" ad nauseum and see no relevant connection to 9/11 ... I surmise that you are referring to the Dancing Israelis? ...
     
  18. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    1. What do you know then? It is easy to say you know. But can you demonstrate any type of working knowledge about it?

    2. You think so huh? Why?

    3. Where have you discussed ""A Clean Break" ad nauseum"? And in reference to #2, if you know the in's and out's of A Clean Break, how exactly do you come away from that knowledge today not seeing striking parallels? Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Gaza and the West Bank are all checks for destabilization, rolling back and making them less of a threat to Israel as Israel's military hegemony of the region has only tightened its grip since 9/11. The only one to avoid the same fate on the list in A Clean Break is Iran, which Netanyahu has gone to great lengths to get his way, even bribing U.S. officials to vote against the nuclear deal.

    4. No, not at all. Why would you surmise that?
     
  19. Shinebox

    Shinebox Well-Known Member

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    1. Uh, because I pay attention to world events and have been studying the Middle East for over thirty years?

    2 . because nothing has changed ..

    3. On a few different forums over the years ...

    4. just taking a guess ... most truthers love that one ...
     
  20. cjnewson88

    cjnewson88 Well-Known Member

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    But are too lazy to put in the spade work for it. Got it. Enjoy the rest of your life asking questions and never looking for answers.

    More to the topic, I started a thread on here a couple of years ago discussing motive and opportunity from the terrorism point of view. Here is the link.

    From a conspiracy point of view, this is something the truthers have struggled with since the inception of the 'truth movement'. A few have popped up; insurance fraud, PNAC, oil, israel, money.. but they are all mutually exclusive to each other. For example, how the hell does insurance fraud fit in with a plan to boost military growth from a 'new pearl harbour'? It makes no sense.

    But what is lacking is the fact that the reward doesn't really fit the crime.. It's like Oceans 11 stealing a charity box with $10 in it. You expect people to believe that a secrete organisation risked years of recruiting hundreds of people, planning, executing and covering up the largest and most complex conspiracy ever known, cost the country and economy trillions of dollars in perpetual wars, all so they could invade Iraq so China and Russia can have all the major oil contracts? Or so they could build a pipeline so Turkmenistan can sell natural gas to India? Forgive for thinking there's a major disconnecting here....
     
  21. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    No you don't. If I were "lazy", I would do what the vast majority does, just accept everything I'm fed by the US government and never question any of it. IMO, if one has any brains, one doesn't look for answers from the same source that's feeding you lies ... all the time, but that's just me.

    Some of the answers are way too obvious, you only have to open your eyes, except to the "lazy" that is, at least my version of lazy, not yours. Some are happy with blips, others want proof, c'est la vie.

    You lost me with the rest of your post once you pulled out the "truthers" card. I'm Bob, not an invented class of group-thinkers as labeled/denigrated by typical OCT defenders. BTW, OCT defenders/parrots have a "conspiracy" point of view last I checked, that's what the "C" in OCT represents.
     
  22. cjnewson88

    cjnewson88 Well-Known Member

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    You obviously think yourself very important if you think that entire post was aimed at you personally. Sorry to burst your self-important bubble, but only the first line was for you, the rest was for the topic of this thread.
     
  23. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    No I understand the purpose of your posts completely, trust me on this.

    Oh my mistake, do go on please.
     
  24. Blues63

    Blues63 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All posited motives for gubernatorial complicity in 9/11 are fairly weak (MIHOP in this case).

    a) False flag to invade Afghanistan.

    This one is overkill as AQ had been escalating the campaign against the US for some time (embassy bombings; 1st WTC bombing; The USS Cole), so a manufactured pretext is somewhat ridiculous in light of the pre-existing justification for such a response.

    b) To destroy key documents.

    Again, this one is overkill as the wiping of hard drives and the shredding of documents negates the need to destroy a 47 storey building: overkill.

    c) The Old 'cui bono' canard

    Some believe that because the Bush administration had so much to gain from the attacks (this is never fully explained), he must have been complicit. Well, that is just poor logic, as these individuals are unable to supply any textual evidence to support such an obvious non-sequitur.

    d). Silverstein insurance scam. This one never gets an adequate explanation. How could Silverstein influence government in participating in an insurance scam? Ridiculous.

    I'm sure there are others, but I can't recall them at the moment.
     
  25. Jango

    Jango New Member

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    Emphasis mine.

    According to who? What, you? And why do you think you're able to make a global claim such as that and it be correct?
     

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