911 victim telling you how it is

911 victim's opinion on the war on terror.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wRp2SfYmcc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wRp2SfYmcc[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wRp2SfYmcc"]911 Victim Telling You How It Is - YouTube[/ame]

 

Opinions vary.

Got any evidence?

 

The proof that it was an inside job is crushing.
http://www.politicalforum.com/9-11/239144-everythings-under-control.html#post1061030527

 

Lots of opinions and speculation, there.

Got any evidence?

 

Yes, there were links in the video that you OBVIOSULY didn't check.

 

Indeed I did. All were speculation.

Any evidence?

 

Links are not evidence. Why is it truthers pretend there is so much evidence, yet can't produce a single scrap of it?

 

The guy in the video was right about 9/11 and he was right about American imperialism.
http://www.politicalforum.com/history-past-politicians/149071-american-imperialism.html

You have to click on the links to see the evidence. Don't just look at the links.

 

I followed the links, they led to anecdotes, speculation and opinions.

So far, no evidence.

 

I have. I failed to see any evidence. Why don't you just explain the evidence? Come on. Seriously. When are you truthers going to fess up and admit the 9/11 conspiracies you've been preaching since 9/11 are all a big scam and you really have nothing. Everyone who has spent more than five minutes looking at the truth already knows.

You couldn't even defend your own theory that Flight 77 flew over the Pentagon once all the facts were laid out in a way you couldn't refute. While I give you credit for having the balls to actually put a theory out there, it doesn't change the fact the theory is untenable. Most truthers know any theory they put out there unless it is really REALLY vague will immediately be shot down and then used against them when they start claiming some other theory that contradicts the first is true.

So please. Present some evidence. Don't put up links and pretend that is evidence. It isn't. Surely you have visited the links and have all the evidence lined up, right? Why can't you just give us one little example of real, hard evidence that your theories are correct and that the official theory is wrong? Is that seriously asking too much of people so dedicated to bringing down the government or the Jews or whatever bad guy they think was behind 9/11?

 

I asked this in another thread:

So. Do you have no doubts about 9/11?

 

I did, years ago. Then I followed the evidence.

 

And what evidence would that be?

 

Because there is no evidence to support it.

Is it POSSIBLE the government had some involvement? Yes. Does the evidence support it? No. Do you have any evidence that shows government involvement?

All the truther claims and "questions" about 9/11 have been answered and investigated to the point that it all makes sense. The same cannot be said for the truther theories as you can't get any two truthers to even agree what really happened on 9/11, who did it, how, or why.

No. Why should it? Are the same people who came up with Operation Northwoods in power now? No. Did it ever go beyond the idea stage? No. Is there ANY evidence the government did something like Operation Northwoods on 9/11? No.

There is nothing wrong with wondering. When one takes an unrelated set of people/circumstances and pretends that proves something in the here and now, that is called a paranoid delusion. There is nothing that backs up the government being behind 9/11.

Most, if not all, of the reports of pending attacks have made it to the public domain including the PDB discussing the threat of Al Qaeda attacks including hijackings. NOTHING of a specific nature has ever been discovered, and if something like that WAS discovered, it would make international news.

Nope. The evidence speaks for itself. If new evidence presents itself that shows the government was behind 9/11, then I will have to rethink it. Over a decade now and not one shred of real evidence has presented itself.

 

Hannibal,
It is also speculation to say that what was presented to the public as the official story and conclusion is nothing more than specualtion itself. Without any evidence to support the government's claims/theory, people accept it as gospel. Do you not find this odd?

 

One first has to buy the complete lie that the government hasn't presented evidence to back up their claims. Truthers LOVE to pretend there is no evidence to back up the fact 19 fanatic Muslim scumbags carried out an attack on the US for Al Qaeda. The truth of the matter is there is all kinds of evidence and it has already sent a man to prison for life without hope of parole. These are facts truthers cannot swallow.

 

Lots and lots of evidence has been presented. Independent investigations worldwide have come to the same conclusions.

 

No, I do not. Just speculation fueled by doubts, and previous things.

If our government was capable of plotting such things in the past, then they are surely capable of plotting things of similar nature again.

I don't have evidence, but there's always room for doubt. The thing that sticks with me the most is that the government had planned fake terrorist attacks before, which ironically, would have been using airliners among other things to incriminate Cuba so the government could invade. The thing that drives my curiosity is government records: did the US' desire to invade Afghanistan predate 9/11?

Right. A lot of the theories I see...they're off the wall. I try to stick to the things I know. But I do have a lot of doubts about 9/11. They're more along the lines of advanced knowledge a la Pearl Harbor (the PNAC comment) and an inside job a la Operation Northwoods, which you already know. The thing that bothers me the most is that we, the common people, are not given access to the full range of records of our government in these matters. It is hard to take our government's word at face value these days, especially when I have doubts of my own. Do you not feel the same way?

Of course it would. But that's half the battle in my mind. The government holding on to so much information that would likely alleviate much of the conspiracy (at least in my case).

Taking into consideration our government's history, do you think that incriminating evidence of government involvement does exist?


I'm more like you guys. I follow the evidence. However, I safeguard myself with certain protocols. I realize we'll likely never get to the bottom of the barrel in terms of governmental records, so in my mind, there will always be that extra little space in my 9/11 file for doubt. But I am in no way, shape, or form part of the other movement.

 

I have no doubt in a perfect world,the US government should have had enough warning to stop or at least lessen the effects of 9/11, but didn't have all their ducks in a row with interagency rivalry and departmental quotas mucking up the works

 

Well, at least you know it is speculation. That's a BIG step up!

Absolutely! I have no doubts about that and I've already commented that there is far more out there we know nothing about.

Doubt is a good thing. It is acting or demanding action when one only has doubts that is a bad thing.

Who would want Afghanistan? The place is a literal hell hole. It has no known natural resources other than drugs, but that is a moot point anyway. We are not demanding anything of Afghanistan nor did we take over their government.

Do YOU have any thoughts on what would make invading Afghanistan worth risking everyone's lives over?

The PNAC is a red herring. It says nothing about the "need" for an attack. It simply states that it would be a slow process without something like a Pearl Harbor happening.

What do you feel is being kept from you? The government has released the evidence it has on 9/11. In fact, the government has gone beyond what it normally does to release to the public the evidence they have that backs up their claims.

Al Qaeda has repeatedly and to this day admitted guilt. KSM, the mastermind behind 9/11 and other attacks has admitted his role in 9/11 and has not implicated the government as being involved. In the mean time, the only denial of 9/11 came when Osama was in custody of the Taliban and the Taliban said they would turn over Osama if they had proof of his involvement in 9/11. Since then Osama has repeatedly not only admitted guilt, but provided further proof of his and Al Qaeda's involvement by airing video testimonies of several of the hijackers; something only the guilty party would have access to.

So again I ask what you feel is being held back. There is a LOT of information out there that many people just don't know about, so if there is a specific aspect of 9/11 that you feel the government has evidence of but isn't releasing it, post what you want to know about. I and a number of other people here would be glad to discuss the details and show what evidence exists.

At this point in time? No. The government absolutely SUCKS at keeping secrets, and with as many people that would have to be involved in even the simplest of truther theories, there is no way they could keep that many people quiet this long. In the first few years after 9/11, I wouldn't be all that surprised if something came out incriminating the government, but at this point I think if there was evidence it would have been found and released by now.

Yes, you failed miserably at proving yourself as a truther. Shame on you! Do I think the government might be hiding some evidence? Actually I do. It would not surprise me at all that there was some CYA going on that made it past the investigations. I don't think there was malfeasance involved, just some screwups. Do I have evidence of this? No. Just a feeling because it is human nature to CYA and when something as bad as 9/11 happens, NOBODY wants the finger pointed their way!

But like I said. I let the evidence point the way. I have no problem at all changing my mind about what happened if new evidence comes out that cannot be refuted. To date the entire body of "evidence" the truthers have of 9/11 being carried out by whatever baddy the truther hates consists of opinion, ignorance, and outright lies. That is why so many truthers have been reduced to trolling.

 

Hindsight is always so much easier than trying to figure things out in real time. Looking back and seeing all the missed links is easy, but it also means you ignore all the false links that the FBI and CIA had to deal with at the time. And ANYONE who has had to deal with the government in any way, shape or form quickly learns that the bureaucracy brings everything to a snails pace.

 

Geopolitical reasons. The oil pipelines. And to a lesser extent, maybe even the drug trade. Basically, ways to make the elite lots of money. As well, to strengthen the US' presence in the region.

Specifically, I don't know. I do know that things 'are' kept from us. I understand why, but that doesn't remove the feelings I have, nor the curiosity (and desire) to view and read the files for myself.

Yeah, I know. Funny you should mention bin Laden, as I have doubts about him too. I just find it hard to believe that it took our military and intelligence agencies that long to find and kill him. I served in the Corps. myself, and have taken great strides to study our military history. Ten years to find 'one' man. Its like, we have all of these capabilities, strengths, and advantages over nearly everyone else, but the hunt for bin Laden took ten years. It just seems odd.

I agree, partially, as it depends on what type of secret we're talking about here. Take Area 51 for example. Very little comes out about that place, what exactly they're doing, etc. But I agree with the second part of your sentence - as many truthers have claimed that hundreds (maybe a small thousand) of people were "paid actors" and were in on the 9/11 hoax. I post at a 9/11 truther site, and have spent a lot of time trying to logically tell those people that their ideas are simply not feasible. And as I pointed out to them, if they were truly paid actors in the greatest hoax of our lifetime, we'd be reading their obits in the newspapers. Too many loose ends for it to be logical.


I've never really taken much time to look into a lot of the theories truthers push. I'm offended by most, saddened by others, and confused by the rest (the stuff that involves sophisticated mathematics). I will say this though, the discovery of the passports is extremely odd to me.

Thank you for answering my questions.

 

The oil pipeline has been brought up a lot, but it doesn't involve the government. It involves contracts between oil companies and the Afghani government. Regardless, the plans for a pipeline were shelved years ago and remain shelved.

Still, government officials are under constant scrutiny over finances. If they received millions upon millions of dollars from "the elites", people would notice. Would you risk your life for less?

With a little bit of digging, much of the evidence including files referenced by the 9/11 commission, are available for reading. It does give you a much better feel for what was going on and what happened leading up to 9/11. Another excellent source for information is the firefighter testimonies from 9/11. It is hard reading due to the emotions and what they have to talk about, but it does show exactly what was happening at ground zero as the events of the day unfolded. You can read them here.

Well, when someone holes up and hides for 9 years in one place without exposing themselves to the outside world and while in a foreign country, it becomes very hard to find that person.

You also have to realize that he was in a country where the US isn't very well liked and Al Qaeda IS liked. We don't have anywhere near the same kind of intelligence or investigative powers that we have here or in more friendly nations.

Very true. Area 51 is easy to keep somewhat secret because it is meant to be secret and they are not covering up crimes. Plus you have very clear cut long term criminal punishments ahead of you if you give away those secrets. Would that be worth it? Not to many.

The guilt of being at least somewhat responsible for the deaths of 3,000 Americans HAS to weigh on a concience somewhat, and WOULD, in my mind, be worth exposing so that people knew the truth. I can't be the only one who feels that way. Look at all the people who have come forward to tattle on the government for far less serious crimes, but one that their concience couldn't let them get away with. The warrantless wiretaps by Bush is a good example.

There was only one passport where the discovery was "unusual", and that was the one where someone found one of the hijackers passports on the ground after the plane had crashed into the towers. Is it impossible? No. Is it, as you say, extremely odd? Absolutely and even highly unlikely, but that is the point. The government or whomever wouldn't need to go to such lengths to prove it was the hijackers and, in fact, it would be counterproductive to have such a questionable piece of evidence just turn up like that. Even amateurs wouldn't go to such lengths to plant evidence, esepcially when they have all the other evidence the government already has.

The other passports were recovered from where Flight 93 crashed, and honestly.... where were those passports going to go? It wasn't the only personal effects recovered from the crash scene by any means.

As for the mathematics, truthers in general don't understand the math either. My favorite is the math put forward by Judy Wood, who supposedly has a PHD in structural engineering. Her explanation of how the collapse should have taken 97 seconds is just hysterical! In her example, she tries to pretend the collapse should have come to a complete stop on every floor before starting up again. How can ANY educated person think this is realistic?

Any time. Thank you for asking the questions and be willing to search for the truth vs. defend a bias / agenda.

 

Speaking of evidence, why are four(4) of the supposed hijackers alive and well?
source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm

Why has there never been a real investigation into the events of 11 September 2001?
Why did the federal investigators of the 11 September 2001 event allow former Mayor Rudolf Guilliani to ship the steel from the towers to China before the investigation was complete? When investigating a crime (which an act of terrorism actually is classified) you never allow forensic evidence to be destroyed while conducting the investigation.
Why was this KNOWN PROCEDURE violated?
There are many questions that those who believe the official version of events, never ask themselves. This is either do to fear of not being accepted or it is due to the fact of willfull agreement due to the desire to seek an avenue to express violent tendencies.

 

If that myth were true, why on Earth does not most "Americans" know that the Federal Reserve Bank is a private corporation voted into power in 1914 by few Congressional members?

Government is known for keeping secrets which is why most "Americans" are looked upon as useful idiots.