A False Dilemma, in Atheism

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by usfan, Mar 19, 2019.

  1. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    ? If it is proven, you could not rebut it. Theories and possibilities are open for rebuttal, or other perspectives. If none are offered, the original premise stands.
     
  2. Kyklos

    Kyklos Active Member Donor

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    Hey, you might have a point! Chomsky should of known that! You need to email Noam Chomsky and set him right! ...LOL!
     
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  3. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Chomsky isn't a physicist.
     
  4. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but being an idiot isn't an " anomaly "
     
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  5. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Donor

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    Secular humanism has been defined by the SCOTUS as a religion. How is atheisrm any different?
     
  6. Kyklos

    Kyklos Active Member Donor

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    What degree in physics and engineering did Philo Taylor Farnsworth have at 14 years old or his entire life?
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
  7. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So true - it is terribly common - and ignorance even more so.
     
  8. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No mate, you just have some issues you need to get sorted. Living with all that suppression is not doing you any good. No one is having sadomasochistic thoughts or homosexual thoughts about you and it is weird and bizarre you think they are. It is not even funny seeing such a tortured soul on here.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  9. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    You added this as an edit, so it was not in my earlier reply to this post.
    This is not, nor ever has been, a 'proof of God!' thread. I've repeated this many times, yet the non reading atheists here cannot follow the topic, but go off on canned talking point rants, or bombard me, personally, with constant ad hom streams.

    The OP is about a SINGLE ARGUMENT, commonly made, by atheists, regarding the 'God/no God' philosophical dichotomy. I have addressed that argument, and make no implications. Just because a single argument is refuted, does not prove the inverse. It is the militant atheists who do that, not me. You even made that argument, in an earlier reply.
    No, but being a rational Christian, constantly correcting and exposing phony narratives, deflecting hostility, and remaining civil in a bigoted, incivil environment, is. Idiots are way too common.. especially in the forums, and especially among progressive indoctrinees. ;)
    Good continued example of ad hominem needling. No topical address, just trying to jump on an ad hom dogpile..

    Really, i don't mind. I figure i give you guys a needed venting outlet, and perhaps once you get all that hostility off your chest, you can think rationally.. even for a moment.

    These are just words on a screen. There is nothing here to get so worked up over. If there is one person who reflects introspectively about the mysteries of life, and lays aside their dogmatic intolerance.. even for a moment.. i figure enduring a bit of animosity is worth it.

    Plus, you guys way overestimate your insulting prowess. There's very little wit, and most of the time you have to plagiarize my words to insult me with. ..not very original, and not intimidating. It makes me think I'm debating mental midgets. Or catty middle schoolers.
    :roflol:
    Well, you're trying to be 'Real Mean!', but it just doesn't work. I pwned you guys with the homoerotic fantasy meme, and have real witty comebacks, not just regurgitated plagiarisms of my words.

    For all the indignation, hostility, and irrational raving, still NONE of the MADAs here seems to have a clue about the actual topic! They attack straw men, revile me, personally, and rail on about everything EXCEPT the topic! So taking seriously the distorted ravings of irrational ideologues is not something i can do. I can play with them a bit, let them vent their pent up hostilities, and try to direct the conversation back to the topic. But i cannot take it seriously. It is too absurd, even if you really mean it, and hate as much as you portray.

    I used to think that taking on the Minions of Darkness would be a serious, deeply disturbing experience. Not anymore. Years of experience has taught me that there is nothing more absurd, irrational, pathetic, and powerless than little internet men trying to bully and intimidate Christians on the internet. They see themselves as 'Rational Giants!', 'Infused with Scientific Truth!', 'Destroying Ignorance and Superstition with just a glance!' ..but that is a self delusion. In reality, they are just small minded religious bigots, unable to tolerate differences, and lashing out with pent up hostility from some traumatic life experience. Pity and compassion are more appropriate, for these poor deluded souls...
     
  10. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    I did have a correction, here. You don't launch into 'anti-christian tirades', except by proxy.. or implication. They are usually.. almost always.. ad hom tirades needling me personally. So i stand corrected, and there is only the perception of 'anti-christian' sentiment. But for years, now, your primary 'job' here seems to be to needle and provoke me, personally, in hopes of a bannable response (like the 'Liar!!' charge here..). Seldom (if ever!) is anything topical even addressed. I do make the correlation, though. I figure your animosity towards me is too irrational, so it must be a 'Christian!' thing. You mostly just revile, ridicule, and mock me, but i interpret it as 'anti-christian' sentiment, since it could not possibly be me personally. What, with my charm & winsome personality? :roflol:
     
  11. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wow, just wow! Methinks the man protest to much!
     
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  12. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    :) Yes, that is the only reason any of us post....just to aggravate you.....yes, yes, it's only, and all, a bout you.....sure, there now,….it's OK...calm down..
     
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  13. Arjay51

    Arjay51 Well-Known Member

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    You continue to insist that only your idea about anything could possibly be correct. You hate that the atheist does not bow down to your foolish and untrue definitions, just can't stand that. So you attack with a lack of truth and blame your own shortcomings (and they are legion) on the atheist. Can't conceive of a group that has just one thing in common, a disbelief in your fairy tales.

    The hate that you spew is what is coming back at you, yet you still seem to claim to be oblivious to it. Proof to the contrary, you instantly respond when anyone crosses you. Seek help.
     
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  14. Arjay51

    Arjay51 Well-Known Member

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    Because it has only one thing in common, a disbelief in this god ideal.

    BTW, what business does a court have in declaring any belief a religion? By the same authority I could declare them all cross dressers by their attire.
     
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  15. Arjay51

    Arjay51 Well-Known Member

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    He has reached new levels of projection of his own self image onto others. Truly pathetic.
     
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  16. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    The SCOTUS has recognized that Freedom FROM Religion has equal protection under the Law of the Land as any other religion does.

    This does NOT make it a religion, it just establishes the criteria that the Law uses when weighing the merits of various legal disputes that involve religion or freedom FROM religion.

    It is the same as the Law recognizing that a Person does not have to be Citizen in order to be entitled to individual rights. The only rights that belong exclusively to a Citizen are voting, serving on a jury and becoming the POTUS if they are a natural born Citizen.

    So theists are just abusing the Law of the Land by trying to disingenuously allege that Atheism is a religion when it is not.
     
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  17. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member

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    Actually most thinking people who waste time reviewing your ramblings react negatively to it....basically you come off as an angry and rather strange religious weirdo, so the replies you get reflect his. Virtually any of us would fit the commentary you just displayed.
     
  18. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Consequences and absoluteness are two different issues that you are muddling together, and even absoluteness and objectivity (which would be a more accurate concern) are different issues. And none of this actually addresses the post you just quoted.

    What do you mean by this question? Why would we only feel such pain, or why would we be more likely to feel such pain, if there were consequences outside this life? And why justify something that is independent of our personal consequences, like conscience, by appealing to personal consequences? It makes no sense. Conscience involves concern for others beyond one's own personal consequences . . . that's literally what separates mentally healthy people from psychopaths. You are trying to find a psychopathic justification for non-psychopathic experiences.

    And, if eternal, personal consequences are necessary to justify morality . . . God had no morality to impart to us in the first place. He'd have to have another God above him threatening him with eternal consequences, and that God would have to have a God above him, ad infinitum.

    Agreed.

    Yes. Many people have also found renewal without Christianity, through other religions or without any religion at all. Besides, much of Christianity goes against the very conscience you are using for evidence. My conscience tells me that the actions of God in the Bible are sometimes evil (infanticide, slavery, etc.), and the same eternal punishment you are using as a justification is one of the most (if not the most) conscience-offending propositions imaginable. If there is a God responsible for conscience, he'd have to a God that doesn't offend our conscience. So much for the traditional Christian God as a source, though maybe something like a universalist version would fit the bill.

    And before you try claiming that Christianity is outside the bounds of this thread, please remember that you are the one who brought Christianity into this discussion.

    This is what I'm trying to find your justification for claiming, and you repeatedly refuse to provide any evidence, logic, or reasoning to support this dogma. Meanwhile, I've pointed out the various ways in which this dogma is internally inconsistent and is refuted by empirical evidence, all of which has gone unaddressed. As I've said before, I literally can't step into my backyard without witnessing pro-social behavior in animals . . . something your philosophy says can't possibly exist. Every bee hive, every ant hill, every termite mound disproves usfanism.

    You are, once again, appealing to a fantasy version of nature in which all animals are solely driven by personal, myopic self-interest. I've listed several animals that prove this dogma wrong, including a simple test you can conduct yourself by simply poking a beehive. The existence of social instincts in animals and simple game theory demonstrate that this dogma is pure fiction. In reality -- in observable reality, not simple forum philosophy -- cooperative behavior in social animals is better for individual survival than this myopic self-interest and certain instincts exist that drive some animals to act in the exact opposite way, with individuals putting themselves at risk to protect mates, children, other kin, other members of a social group, or even other species. Kin selection, inclusive fitness, and basic game theory all explain how other-regarding, pro-social instincts can evolve in animals, and such behavior in animals is well-documented.

    This "morality is a delusion without God" philosophy has been revealed to be a self-contradictory philosophy that relies on special pleading, bald assertions, non-sequiturs and complete disavowal of empirical observations that refute it. This isn't just dogma, it is uniquely bad dogma.

    You are seeking egoistic, consequentialist justification for non-egoist behavior, claiming that this is all that can exist in a godless universe . . . and yet still using egoist, consequentialist logic to justify your own position . . . all to attribute morality's source to a God who fails to meet all of the same moral criteria you claim are logically necessary.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  19. rahl

    rahl Well-Known Member

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    I don't have a religion.

    so you don't know what personal attack means. got it.
     
  20. rahl

    rahl Well-Known Member

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    you of course have not. you just repeat your bald assertion fallacy.
     
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  21. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    So you are saying just because it is not a common occurrence then it is impossible. I believe the point of these events is that they are not common. Who pays attention to common occurences? What would be the point of even mentioning them if they happened everyday?

    You seem to miss alot of points.
     
  22. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member

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    An "Uncommon" occurrence has to have happened at some point, at least once...These are not uncommon, but fictional impossibility.
     
  23. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I did not insult you. I was merely agreeing with the claim that idiocy is not an anomaly - I then added that ignorance is even more common among the raging masses. This is just a statement of fact... a fact which you yourself seem to agree with.

    You start out claiming "ad hom" fallacy - when there was none. Then you go on to engage in an Ad Hom attack - replete with other fallacious gibberish such as generalization and other falsehood.

    "Minions of Darkness". WOW- This is classic terminology of cult indoctrination - a common symptom of someone under the influence of mind control.

    The Cult leader presents a "black vs white" "Good vs Evil" "God vs Devil" paradigm. Cult doctrine/dogma is "Good" - anything that conflicts with dogma is Evil - as is anyone who "questions" or "does not believe" or "conflicts with cult doctrine"

    This is a "thought stopping technique". In an effort to not dwell upon "bad thoughts" - because dwelling on these thoughts may lead to eternal torture in the afterlife (something that has been previously drilled into the subconscious of the adherent) - the adherent will try to avoid thinking about the "Bad Thought" - information that conflicts with cult dogma.

    There are various avoidance techniques. Abject Denial and "Demonization of the Other" are very common tactics. Those that "question" or "disbelieve" are "Minions of Darkness" - under the influence of Satan.

    Rather than address some claim which conflicts with Cult Dogma - you go into a demonization rant - "irrational pathetic, small minded bullies" and so on.

    You then try and cast yourself as a victim of persecution - "Like Jesus" .. being bullied and intimidated by these Evil Demonic forces.

    Good grief .. Get a valid argument por favor.
     
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  24. rahl

    rahl Well-Known Member

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    bald assertions, like the ones you post, are assertions with zero evidence in support of them. they can be summarily dismissed.
     
  25. rahl

    rahl Well-Known Member

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    atheism is the lack of belief in a god. It by definition, is not a religion.
     
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