A multi-pronged plan to reform immigration.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Lee Atwater, Nov 6, 2023.

  1. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Please do us all a favor and substantiate your assertion so we know if it is accurate. Thx. Anecdotal evidence suggests it's working.

    Border-crossing numbers plunge as CBP's online app, new deportation rules take effect
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...re-driving-down-border-crossings/70413101007/
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2023
  2. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Our corrupt entrenched bipartisan corrupt ruling political class is very good at rigging elections.

    “Since the country's colonial days, concerns of voter fraud have inspired ever-more complicated ways to cast one's ballot. Depending on where you live, you may vote tomorrow with a lever, a punch card, a marker or a touchscreen. As election scholar Andrew Gumbel notes, the U.S. has been both a "living experiment in the expansion of democratic rights" and a "world-class laboratory for vote suppression and election-stealing techniques.”
    TIME MAGAZINE, A BRIEF HISTORY OF, Ballots in America, By M.J. Stephey Monday, Nov. 03, 2008. (emphasis mine)
    http://content.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1855857,00.html
     
  3. Shutcie

    Shutcie Newly Registered

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    Working?
    If the goal is to provide an easier, less verifiable way of allowing people to enter the country, maybe.
    Seriously. Does this sound like the Biden administration has a secure border?
    Doesn't sound like it to me.
    And that's job one for any government.

    New Documents Obtained by Homeland Majority Detail Shocking Abuse of CBP One App – Committee on Homeland Security (house.gov)

    However, the ongoing review of the initial production of documents revealed several shocking findings about DHS’ abuse of the CBP One app:

    • Overall, 95.8 percent of all inadmissible aliens who scheduled appointments through the app during this time were ultimately issued a “Notice to Appear” (NTA) and released into the United States on parole.
    • The documents show 278,431 appointments scheduled, with 266,846 of these individuals released into the interior.
    • Individuals from a number of countries of concern made appointments through the app and were overwhelmingly released into the country.
      • Out of 57,381 appointments made by Venezuelan nationals, 55,690 were released on parole, a rate of 97 percent.
      • Out of 20,948 appointments made by Russian nationals, 19,780 were released on parole, a rate of 94 percent.
      • Out of 2,279 appointments made by Uzbek nationals, 1,866 were released on parole, a rate of 82 percent.
      • Out of 801 appointments made by Belarusian nationals, 787 were released on parole, a rate of 98 percent.
      • Out of 246 appointments made by Afghan nationals, 229 were released on parole, a rate of 93 percent.
      • Out of 36 appointments made by Chinese nationals, 32 were released on parole, a rate of 88 percent.
      • Out of 18 appointments made by Iranian nationals, 16 were released on parole, a rate of 88 percent.
    • The app has consistently been used to release otherwise inadmissible aliens from Mexico and Northern Triangle countries.
      • Out of 58,772 appointments made by Mexican nationals, 55,099 were released on parole, a rate of 93 percent.
      • Out of 20,776 appointments made by Hondurans, 20,060 were released on parole, a rate of 96 percent.
      • Out of 3,939 appointments made by Guatemalans, 3,717 were released on parole, a rate of 94 percent.
    • Other nations represented in the release statistics include Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, Kyrgyzstan, Pakistan, and Yemen.
     
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  4. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The current system, carrying out US treaty obligations that the US and other nations agreed to after the Holocaust, requires the US to provisionally admit refugees with a well-founded fear of persecution in their home countries, while their claims are adjudicated. Even the Orange Messiah was not able to overturn this basic requirement.

    The practical problem is that in recent years, the system has been overwhelmed by refugees fleeing violence in Central America. Neither the Border Patrol nor immigration judges can keep up with the massive flow.

    So, as I said, one aspect of a solution is to make the standard for admission to those fearing persecution higher. But.........it's going to take a bipartisan agreement the Repubs have no interest in making. They would rather have the crisis continue unresolved and point the finger of blame at Biden.
     
  5. Shutcie

    Shutcie Newly Registered

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    Well, you can blame republicans but the facts don't support your assertion.
    Under trump we had much lower ILLEGAL MIGRATION than under biden, and we never saw trump holding job fairs for ILLEGAL MIGRANTS.

    The fact remains that if we can adjudicate both migration and asylum requests outside of the US we eliminate the border pressure and pressure internally to deal with people who have no business being here while making those we do want here more welcome.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2023
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  6. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  7. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    That is not a definition of what "concerned Americans" you are referring to. Again, deflection when asked specifics.
     
  8. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    Clearly you were trying to get me to define race...

    The appropriate answer is and will remain, the Americans that are concerned. Can't define it any easier :roflol:
     
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  9. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    1. I did not call you a racist. You will define that by your actions, not by what people say. Furthermore, I was talking about race and racism is intertwined with immigration. It has been in the forefront ever since mass immigration by the Irish who emigrated here in the early 19th century.
    2. Your plan will focus most on those who value the Judeo-Christian ethic, history, and anthology. You want immigrants to be of the same idealogical blueprint as you do. And you don't like immigrants whose history and culture are not from the Anglo-Saxon, Judeo-Christian ethos. Thus, your plan is very similar to Trump's immigration plan and the lack of understanding that "assimilation" is more of a process than instant coffee.
    3. Yes they do, but they generally come through the POE, hidden in a variety of vehicles. They are not coming through in mules on foot in the middle of the desert. That was in the 1980s. For instance, only a small amount of fentanyl can be smuggled into the US through a vehicle. No drug-sniffing dog can smell fentanyl. They can with cocaine, marijuana, and some other drugs, but not fentanyl. Additionally, fentanyl can be sent by mail. If you want to order drugs via the internet, those drugs can be laced with fentanyl even though you are ordering said drugs legally. And fentanyl and some order pain medicine laced with fentanyl and then sell the pain killer drugs to those that has the fentanyl. It is the same thing as if someone got fentanyl and mixed with OTC drugs here in the US in their own home, like what happened in NYC by the owner and her associates in NYC. And then you have marijuana, meth, and designer drugs, which are mostly produced here in the US. We have a major drug addiction problem. Ohio seems to have a successful program to deal with the addiction through the drug courts. This is something I like. But not every state does this and we still are having debates on what to do with users who are addicted and commit crimes. Some want to be harsh, give them 20 years in the state Penn, and so forth. Some want legalization, which the GOP says that is soft on crime. And there are other arguments. But none of that deals with addiction, and trying to solve the addiction problem here in this country, which is the worst among all the OECD countries, China, and India, we are doing this to ourselves and thus should not blame immigration. We have our detection devices and procedures at the border, but the reality is they are coming through the front door disguised, hidden, etc.
    4. Embassies and Consulates do a lot of things, but GOP has, for the past 20 years, reduced federal employment, including those who work for the Department of State Abroad. This is why not all embassies and consulates do counselor processing. We have 24 countries in which there is no embassy. We have another 70 who don't perform any counsular services or limited counselor services for nonimmigrant visas, such as the B1/B2 visa. Embassies and Consulates are not the law office for anyone and everyone. And embassies and consulates have a ton of other work to do within that country, mostly dealing with trade and international relations. They do quite a bit by the limited staff. Additionally, when it comes to asylum seekers and refugees, how in the hell would someone who escaped North Korea go to a US embassy for refugee? We do have third-country safe zones, such as most of Europe, but Mexico is by no means a safe country under the legal definition. So, you really need to think why they are leaving their country and seeking asylum or refugee status here in the US, the beacon of light of the world, the city on a hill that Reagan described in one speech, and so forth. And you really have not done that.
    5. We don't have open borders. We have not had open borders since the late 19th century when the Chinese Exclusion Act and similar acts were passed. What we have is a controlled border. That border is at airports besides the physical border between the US and Mexico and the US and Canada. And then we have our ports where people can come through too. What is happening at the southern border now is a crisis, but not a crisis of our own making. The root causes are within those countries such as Venezuela, Honduras, and others. We may now see Brazil if their economy goes worse for the poor with a libertarian president.
    6. All immigration is done through an act of Congress and the Executive Branch. The executive branch does have some leeway, such as Title 42. But this is a representative democracy, aka a Republican Form of government. People are not going to vote nor is there is a mechanism for the people to vote directly. But people, when it comes to immigration, usually vote out of fear, not reason.

    Here is something to consider. If you take away all immigrants from the US population, our birth rate would be negative. With our current immigration, our birth rate is stable, near zero, overal while we are having an ever-increasing aging population. Our current rate for permenant residency is 1 million per anum. This is a combination of family reunification, work, and humanitarian relief. We currently have 330 million in total population, and immigrants directly account for 15.28% of the total population. Then compare that to Qatar, which has a 77.27%. So, based on percentages, which country is having more mass emigration? US or Qatar? Which country has more land and resources? Qatar or the US?
     
  10. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    There is no open border. The word "open border" was invented by the GOP to show that "we don't want them coming" into the country. "Them" by the GOP is defined by those who are brown, yellow, or Muslim coming into the US. It is a form of nativism.
     
  11. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    No I was not. You claimed "concerned Americans?" That is not race, is it? I was getting you to tell me who do you think are the "concerned Americans?" MEGA Conservatives only? Conservatives? Evangelical Christians? Christians in general? or what.

    Any of those groups defined by race?
     
  12. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What is your ideal population of the USA?
    Every increase in population increases global warming, and also increases the load on infrastructure such as roads, schools, police and fire, and food production.
    Why is no one talking about this?
     
  13. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    Clearly you were.
    You do realize conservative are from all walks of life, just like Democrats are, right? I thought the question odd and gave the most inclusive answer possible without going down that rabbit hole..
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2023
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  14. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Banned

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    I would hit the employers with a mandatory one year prison (not jail... REAL prison) and a felony conviction that cannot be pled down to something less. Sure, if they want to plead guilty it'll get it over and done with quicker, so it's up to them.

    As for the illegals themselves, some time in jail followed by an immediate deportation for them, and anyone in their household who is also illegal. I'm sick and tired of the open borders bullshit, and I have to really thank DeSantis and Abbott for sending some to the sanctuary cities to give the lefty criminal cheerleaders a lesson in the real world.

    #sendthemhome
     
  15. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Banned

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    The 1986 amnesty was done in exchange for a promise (from the Dems) that it would be the last time. Guess y'all forgot about that, eh? No amnesty, illegals should be arrested and deported as soon as possible, whether that is when they're jumping the border at 0300 in the middle of the desert, or they flew in and overstayed their visa. Anyone who employs them should go to prison, and by that I mean everyone from the HR rep to the CEO, anyone who directly responsible, or indirectly by pretending it's not happening. If a cop in Boise (randomly selected) pulls over an illegal, they get deported, too, along with any illegal member of their household/family, after they also do time.

    Try to get a DL? Deported.
    Try to register to vote? Deported.
    Register your kids for school? Deported.

    I could continue, but you should get the drift.

    We do not owe random strangers from thousands of miles away anything, and if they show up, ignoring our laws, taking jobs away from Americans who are on the dole instead of working, and given how easy it is to get a voter's card without needing to prove citizenship, I dare say a large plurality (likely more) are voting in our elections, too. But, you're OK with that, eh?
     
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  16. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Banned

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    For those of us who weren't here in the 50s, could you expand on this statement and explain it so dummies like me can understand?

    The root causes are not in the control of the US to do anything about, aside from protecting ourselves against it, which our government has not just been doing a shitty job, they're doing a shitty job on purpose! That has to stop.
     
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  17. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Banned

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    That's at least the 2nd time you've brought up that law, which inspired me to look it up. I didn't study it, nor would I claim at all to be an expert on what's in it, but I particularly liked the part that makes it illegal for a member of any Communist group, foreign OR domestic, to immigrate to or possibly even just visit the US (not completely sure about that last part, but if it's not illegal for an avowed commie to visit, it should be.

    You good with that?

    Under no circumstances will an immigration reform bill be "bipartisan" if it includes amnesty, so there goes that idea! You seem to think we Americans have some sort of obligation to open our doors to literally anyone on the planet who wants to move here, but someone needs to put their foot down and say, 'Enough! We're full, and your problems are YOUR problems, not ours. We have a legit amnesty policy for those who are legitamitely in need of it, but if you're coming here because you can make more money and send it back home? No... You stay right where you are, we're closed.
     
  18. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    I was asking you a question which does not mean I was clearly for race. Your argument is on sinking sand, not on solid rock. Again, I was trying to get you to tell me who do you think concerned americans are given the geopolitical landscape. So, either you are afraid to answer or you are simply making excuses. The choice is yours.
     
  19. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1954 ring a bell?
    t
    We may not have direct control, but we do have influence, especially in places like Columbia, Brazil, and so forth. How we influence is the question. Again, we can do this by expanding trade with these countries to include local job opportunities arise, training of law enforcement like what we did in Columbia, assisting the government with certain criminal behavior, and other avenues. But it must also include other countries as well to solve this.
     
  20. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    I gave you the best answer possible without giving you the pleasure of a racial twist..

    The simple answer was and remains,

     
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  21. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    The Republicans were the ones who controlled the purse strings from the 1990s onward. We did increase border patrol on the Southern Border. Since the 1990s, the GOP has been dead set at reducing federal government expenditures, including the INS when Bill Clinton was president. Furthermore, obtaining an ID was not a deportable offense under Reagan or the 1986 compromise. That came about with the REAL ID Act in 2005 under GWB. Remember him? For aliens who register to vote, only Green Card holders can do that in so long as they mark the box "green card" instead of "US Citizen." However, the 1986 Act and the 1997 Act clarified that if any alien identifies or pretends to be a US Citizen, then yes, it is a deportable offense. It has always been that way since the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1954, but the language was more obvious than merely filling out a voter registration card. Additionally, DLs were not identified, prior to the REAL ID Act, as a form of citizenship. Identification yes, along with a state-issued ID card. That still exists today. Some states have adopted the REAL ID Act, and it is causing problems, even with Texas, and the TSA as an accepted form of identification when going through a security checkpoint on a domestic flight nowadays.

    In 2002, one of the recommendations was for Aliens to fill out the AR-11. It can now be done online. Before that, aliens still were required to notify INS at that time of the move. But in those days, they either had to visit the INS office, wait in line, and give them their new utility bill that had the new address on it or they could write a letter, send it to their local office with a copy of the utility bill showing that they have moved and be caught up in government bureaucracy and may not get updated in time. The AR 11 form is much easier, simpler, and convenient. In other words, it is better. We also improved the SEVIS System for foreign students and made other improvements to our system based on the Blue Ribbon Commission. But then again, you didn't know that, did ya"

    The whole point when I was making the statement, "And we have not gotten to DACA Repients" was that I was trying to argue legal immigration primarily and not illegal immigration in general. Trump's plan would have reduced legal immigration by at least 50%, and the poster "Stutcie" was similar to Trump's plan. With deportation, only certain illegal immigrants should be deported. We should not deport those who came here when they were two or so and stayed, knowing that this is the only country they have ever known. These people should have a pathway to legalization although I am reluctant to give them US Citizenship with a set of conditions. That is not amnesty, but we have done it plenty of times from the Cuban Adjustment Act of 1980 to the 1986 Immigration Reform Act to the Temporary Protection Status which is a reprieve. This has been done by both Republicans and Democrats, so you just can't blame one group and not the other, can you. Even in those days, immigrants were viewed much more differently than the so-called conservatives of Lil MIle, DentalFloss, and others of today who pretty much do not have a complete understanding of the issues and try to use the blame game as if they were in elementary school. But if I were to play your game, then you, DentalFloss, should not be on Medicare and SS at all and leave it at that. Can't have it both ways, can you?
     
  22. Alwayssa

    Alwayssa Well-Known Member

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    You gave an excuse, not an answer. You still refuse to answer.


    It was not an answer, it was a euphemism with generic definition. I was trying to get you to be more specific, which you refuse, deflect, and deny, just like "Your Fuhrer does on pretty much everything. It won't help you now. Time to take a stand instead of being so wishywashy.
     
  23. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I don't want to play your race derailement.. If you can't accept that the people most concerned are simply the ones that are concerned.. No race needed, all races Included..

    Maybe it's time to ask a mod to settle it? Since you seem convinced that concerned people must be white conservatives, then I suggest you have them review the string of posts, maybe they can help you figure it out o_O
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2023
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  24. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm noticing a trend. Blue folks now all of a sudden care about illegal immigration (because its closer and closer to their front steps). Why did it take this many years for them to notice ASYLUM is broken? I don't think they did just notice, IMO they just care now because its affecting their personal lives. Don't hate the messenger! I'm just reporting on factst that I have observed since Biden got in office and OPENED THE BORDER. I also suggest ZERO sympathy for the left's new outlook on illegal immigration (I say the left in the general sense and not referring specifcally to the OP). How many years did they laugh at Texas while they had to bare 99% of the burden and they didn't even vote for open borders (unlike blue folks).
    Just saying. gotta love the irony here. GOOD STUFF!!!
     
  25. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Banned

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    Nope. It would be another 15 years before I drew breath, another 20 before I could speak English at a basic level, and about 50 until I was mature enough to understand such things.

    I do not care enough to have my government, and more importantly, my MONEY, to solve 3rd world problems in 3rd world nations. We just need to make sure they don't come here and bring those problems with them.
     
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