The point at which the lights come on is referred to as "Significant brain function" - This is when the entity starts to think - "I think therefor I am" - or if you prefer the Monty Python version "I drink therefor I am". Both definitions which are relevant - after all -what is humanity without strong drink ? What is it that we value about humanity ? - I suggest love, family, memories, pleasure - even sorrow , accomplishment and so on - Much of which is made better with booze The clinical definition of "brain dead" - is when significant brain function ceases. When this happens the lights are not coming back on - the person is being kept alive by a variety of machines - as the brain can no longer perform functions such as breathing. This is when they pull the plug and the dirt nap begins - it is a measurable event - when the lights come on - and when they go off. A person in a coma is not brain dead - that is the euthenasia question you are referring to. This is a different question than what I am talking about. Someone in a coma - the lights are still on - just no one is home. There is significant brain function going on though. When significant brain function ends "brain death" - the lights go off. This is why I put this both at the beginning and the end - the so called "Neurological Perspective" - there are 4 other scientific perspectives - Metabolic, Genetic, Embryological, Ecological. Only one of the 5 (genetic) puts the beginning of "human life" (not to be confused with the life of a human) at conception.
I know I do. I just don't try to pretend to be "pro-life" and then hypocritically have a lifestyle that kills the lives of children already born. And I'm demonizing - just stating facts. Every dime wasted on anti-abortion campaigns could have been used to fund Doctors without Borders, or new incubators for hospitals to keep WANTED children alive instead of worrying about a fertilized egg that has a 60% dance of never making it past the first three weeks just from natural causes.
I do not believe in dirt naps. If I did, perhaps I would live differently. "Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die"-creed of the Pagans.
I understand the sense you propose to a degree. But in my opinion, the life in the womb is so much "out of sight, out of mind".....in other words, they don't have a voice. The voice that IS heard is the voice from the culture that says "we don't value life". I do understand the need to help the fatherless children, the unwanted children, the children of drug addicted mothers and/or fathers. I have one I take care of regularly (my grandson). My answer? work to change the culture. I have strong ideas how that is to be done, but Daniel, I understand I cannot take care of them all. In that, I am a realist. I am over any shame for not having that ability.
No idea how this relates to what we are discussion - other than making a big guess at what you are trying to say - but I will take a stab. Are you referring to something akin to the Catholic concept of ensoulment ? What do you mean - "you don't believe in dirt naps" ?
No it's more like saying if you don't want to die from falling from height don't jump out of a plane. You have to walk to get to places you don't have to have sex to get to places if you do you're doing it wrong.
well then if you're promoting abortion you are anti-life I'm just stating facts. the concept of unwanted children is probably pretty disgusting to a pro-life person. If you don't want children use birth control.
Yes but you may have to walk to get sex. I suggest not getting out of bed in the morning - a one might fall and breack neck.
So be a doll and tell me how I'm promoting abortion if I've never suggested anyone get one, never paid a dime to support abortion, never voted for a candidate on that one issue, nor put a woman in the position where she needed or wanted one? The entire extent of my stand on abortion is that it should be a woman's choice. End of story.
I am far from Catholic, but I do believe in the resurrection of the dead. To be absent from the body is to be present before God. You don't end just because your earthly vehicle decays. Shockingly, I have even seen studies by scientists that believe there is evidence of this, however my trust is derived from an uncanny belief or premonition I've had since the day I was born. Not raised in a believing family, my beliefs were confirmed at age 25 when I began studying the Bible which bares witness to my premonitions.So when you destroy a child in the womb, you destroy a child too that will stand before God. I'm not trying to convince you. Just explaining.
Guess you've never looked into where your tax money goes. Seems like Planned Parenthood gets a lot of it. Some the funnel back to Democrat candidates, they'll claim some goes to womens healthcare, but a giant proportion goes to killing children in the womb!.....you've paid far more than a dime!
A women does have a choice. The choice is whether or not to comingle her DNA with someone she has no intentions of raising a child with. We're all adults here. We know the possibilities. Actually we know the responsibilities.....we just don't want to face them. It's convenient to abort and many support that.
Therefore, the thing who Jeremiah speaks about, also knows that egg will not make it to full term birth. So, it is no surprise and has to been done. Since it was known before it even happened.
You think it's that simple? Ever hear of the dozens of complications that arise during even a wanted pregnancy that result in having to terminate? Gestational diabetes? Abnormally high blood pressure? Not to mention mental and physical irregularities that don't appear until the start of a pregnancy, or the lowered inhibitions of the millions of women who suffer from mental disease and make choices beyond their normal capacity. You don't think married women have abortions. You don't think that the 80% of women who are raped and don't report it don't have abortions. Until the day we can shove a fetus up a man's ass and force him to carry to term, I'm going to leave the final call up to the women who are actually enduring the fear and complications of an actual pregnancy to determine if carrying to term is something they are prepared for. Cause right now, you are advocating for FORCING a woman to report her rape, FORCING her to go through the pain and humiliation of a trail, and then FORCING her to carry her rapist's fetus to term. So until the day you are willing to go through the SAME humiliation and fear and pain, I'll just just ignore your "opinion".
That is what I was interested in - thx for the straightforward answer. Lets not pretend there is a child in the womb though - that would be like someone claiming that your belief was wrong. We just don't know. So going with your perspective/hypothesis (which is similar to mine in that I too believe in the "soul") ' If we do indeed have a soul - the question is "when does it arrive" I don't think conception is the arrival point. I too have a "premonition" of sorts - stemming from the classic Near Death Experience. Long story short - went into the light - was in this surreal place being guided by some entity - then at some point was asked the question "do you want to stay or go back". Why I believe in a soul is not exclusively because of that experience though. If I was to write the experience off to an active imagination - I would still believe as I do - on the basis of science.
The culture says, we value the choice the woman makes. 98% or more of the time, the choice is yes, I want to have a baby. Those that choose to abort have 1000s of different reasons. But I am quite sure they still value life. Else they'd be attempting suicide. They have a voice, the voice is of the one the fertilized egg resides in.
Yeah but you don't have to have sex in order to walk. Moronic hyperbole. You can use birth control and avoid the condition of pregnancy much easier than avoiding walking. Lol
I just lost a grandson who was carried 7 months. I am fully aware of all the exceptions that take place you would like to paint as the "rule" to satisfy your blood lust. I'm just thankful my son and daughter ignored the suggestions for abortion and gave life a chance. Why wouldn't a women that was raped take the morning after pill? It doesn't make sense, that is unless she wanted to supply the abortion mills with fetal parts.
Not everyone has access to the morning after pill - especially in Red States that have laws requiring parent notification to get the pill ... and considering how often the abuse comes from a family member ... Nope. Your argument is a hollow one.
That is interesting and thanks for sharing.The account in Genesis speaks of God forming a man out of the earth (various minerals), then breathing into him life. That is my take. As soon as new, unique genetic material is formed, I believe the soul is imparted. It is very interesting another person has come forward with the same premonition as I had as a young boy. Neither of my parents were spiritual and I had no prodding. My search of the scriptures did not happen until as a young man requested guidance and searched myself. It was suggested that I search the scriptures on my own before I attended a Church or any studies so I could discern for myself. Your near death experience has been repeated over and over. My daughter has worked at hospice for years and relates stories of those waiting for death that collaberate what you are saying. My wifes mother died recently. Before her death she told my wife she had a visit with "Father". She never called her husband father.....it was always "Daddy". Regardless of these experiences, I've never had the near death one. I take a lot on faith. I have felt an extreme closeness however to where and to whom I am going. I believe I will be in the company of many many infant souls.
The vast majority of those reasons is convenience....whether it be economic or social. In the case of rape, I do not judge but prefer if ending the life it goes very early. In abortion, a third party is involved. Perhaps we need to examine their true motivations.
