A Simple Question for Those Are Still Opposed to Same Sex Marriage

Discussion in 'Gay & Lesbian Rights' started by ProgressivePatriot, Nov 17, 2017.

  1. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,915
    Likes Received:
    2,152
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The traditional nuclear family is a myth, unless you are limiting "traditional" to the last century or two. "Traditional families" have ranged all across the board throughout history. Why would a child not do better with three or four patents to go to? More availability, and that's even better if there is a larger number of children.

    What specifically are you referring to? I hope it is not how women are treated as property and such because that would be their belief whether they are mono or poly. A completely separate issue.
     
  2. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,915
    Likes Received:
    2,152
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So bring up some of these studies and deconstruct it to show us how the methodology is incorrect.
     
  3. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2011
    Messages:
    9,400
    Likes Received:
    1,348
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Yes, traditional families are a rarity in so many liberalized places---the worst being the hoods---where at best 25% of kids have a married father. Poly families would naturally influence unfaithfulness, and other stresses on children:

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/5050/...quarrels-and-neglect-normal-polygamous-family

    https://goodmenproject.com/families/impact-of-a-polygamous-marriage-on-children-and-family-wcz/
     
  4. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2013
    Messages:
    25,394
    Likes Received:
    8,172
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Disagreed, but I'm interested where you earned your psychology or science degree. I earned mine at UNC and Troy State.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
  5. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,915
    Likes Received:
    2,152
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'll have to look at the articles later when I have better connection. As to the first bit, I was not addressing current trends, but noting how this idea of some kind of "traditional" family of only mother father and kids has always existed is a complete myth. Yes it is a relatively recent trend, but the extended family under one roof, is much more traditional, not to mention the other various models across time and cultures.
     
  6. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2013
    Messages:
    25,394
    Likes Received:
    8,172
    Trophy Points:
    113
    First, the standard unit for humans is male-female parents with children. That doesn't mean it was the only pairing in all time. After all, there are groups where a King (alpha male) had a harem, but most of his citizens were male-female pairings.

    Second, that doesn't mean, with civilization, that people can't choose how they want to live. That said, as a libertarian, I don't care how they live. None of my business, just don't make me pay for them.
     
  7. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,915
    Likes Received:
    2,152
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Do you hold that position for monogamous marriages as well? Otherwise I would find the position hypocritical. That said, as a libertarian, I do hope you can recognize the difference of issue, between whether or not government should legally recognize marriages, poly or mono, and the benefits of such a recognition.
     
  8. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,915
    Likes Received:
    2,152
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Both your articles are dismissed on basis of bias and being factually incorrect. They both are focusing on polygyny not polygamy. The commenters in the GoodMenProject article have even pointed out this obvious bias and lack of knowledge. Polygamy includes not only polygyny and polyandry, but also units where there are 2 or more husbands and 2 or more wives, such as my unit (at 2 each). Additionally you need to make sure you factor out issues that would be present regardless of whether the marriages are poly or mono. If the society is treating women as chattel then whether or not polygamy is present they will still be only second class citizens at best.
     
  9. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2013
    Messages:
    25,394
    Likes Received:
    8,172
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You mean legalize bigamy or polygamy? Sure. Why not?
     
  10. Maquiscat

    Maquiscat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    7,915
    Likes Received:
    2,152
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Let me rephrase. You said that you didn't want to pay for them. By them I am guessing you mean polygamous marriages. But do you also not want to pay for monogamous marriages. As is I am not certain what you mean by pay for them, unless you are referring to the various legal benefits. And then that leads to my other point of how the issue of benefits for marriage is different from the issue of who and how many can marry.
     
  11. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2013
    Messages:
    25,394
    Likes Received:
    8,172
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't want to pay taxes so people can lay around and smoke pot while playing video games.

    Marriage is a 14th Amendment issue; either make the 1138 marriage related laws apply to all or eliminate the laws, benefits, etc.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2017
  12. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm sure you know that the DSM is compromised. Has been for a while now.
     
  13. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2013
    Messages:
    25,394
    Likes Received:
    8,172
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Why do you think it's compromised? Has someone you know been diagnosed with something in which you disagree?
     
  14. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's been subject to 'political pressure' for a few decades now. The pace of the compromise has picked up this century.

    Unfortunately, in the absence of alternatives, we're looking at something like a monopoly. Dangerous ground for any science - ESPECIALLY one in which much of the field is already compromised by the how-long-is-a-piece-of-string effect. A field more in need of exhaustive 'triple blind' confirmation of outcomes than any other, but which remains somehow exempt. Changes to the manual are made not on changing evidence, but on changing attitudes. 'Attitudes' is not science.

    I live in hope that the field (of psychiatry) will at some point make room for those who take the science part of the art more seriously than they take the art. This century, the art - aka, psychology - is becoming more prominent than is science. I don't think I would trust a practising psychiatrist to speak the truth now. They used to, but it's no longer 'safe' for them to do so. Not too dissimilar to the field of medicine .. wherein the ordinary GP can no longer tell someone that they're too fat, or drink too much, or are a malingerer.
     
    Robert likes this.
  15. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    15,501
    Likes Received:
    3,740
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Do you know what a Diagnostic armature construct for proper evaluation of mental function as it relates to mental illness and defect ?
    Or how long such analysis actually takes, and given actual parameters of psychoanalysis, how economically viable or possible long term diagnostics or treatment under today's managed healthcare ?

    The PDR is still one of the best available tomes as far as mental health as Grey's Anatomy is to gross anatomy and the study thereof.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
  16. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2013
    Messages:
    25,394
    Likes Received:
    8,172
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Political pressure from whom for what? Lemme guess; that homosexuality isn't a mental illness?

    Monopoly? Dude, it's a guide book for standardization. What alternative do you propose?

    https://dsm.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.books.9780890425596.Introduction
    The creation of the fifth edition of Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders(DSM-5) was a massive undertaking that involved hundreds of people working toward a common goal over a 12-year process. Much thought and deliberation were involved in evaluating the diagnostic criteria, considering the organization of every aspect of the manual, and creating new features believed to be most useful to clinicians. All of these efforts were directed toward the goal of enhancing the clinical usefulness of DSM-5 as a guide in the diagnosis of mental disorders.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
  17. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    58,376
    Likes Received:
    4,438
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, I'd say its the LGBTs who define their very existence by whom they prefer to have sex with and medical science that classified it as a mental illness for centuries up until a few decades ago.
     
  18. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    58,376
    Likes Received:
    4,438
    Trophy Points:
    113
    "Links" as opposed to a determinant.
     
  19. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    58,376
    Likes Received:
    4,438
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Never heard of this "traditional family" being limited to "only mother father and kids". The traditional family INCLUDES the mother, father and their children. It doesn't exclude other family members.
     
  20. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2011
    Messages:
    9,400
    Likes Received:
    1,348
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Non-Invasive Prenatal Baby Gender Test on Maternal Blood



    Results – Order test NOW!
    The procedure takes 7 business days. We can offer a 3 business days rush service at an additional cost if you wish to shorten the turnaround time. The final report contains one of the following results:

    POSITIVE for the presence of Y-chromosome. Positive Y chromosome DNA test confirms the presence of a malefetus in the recent pregnancy.

    NEGATIVE for the presence of Y-chromosome. Negative DNA test result confirms the absence of Y chromosome DNA in maternal blood samples. This means that 1) the mother is carrying a female fetus or 2) amount of fetal DNA in maternal blood is very low (lower than the detection limit of the DNA test). Please note that if the sample is collected after 10 weeks of pregnancy then the technique is sensitive enough to detect a small amount of fetal DNA in mother’s blood. Only in very rare cases (less than 1%) this amount lower is than the detection limit at 10 weeks of pregnancy.
    http://www.prenatalgeneticscenter.com/services/prenatal-dna-gender-test/

    Sorry, but real science does not go into the 50 different genders rubbish.
     
  21. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2013
    Messages:
    54,812
    Likes Received:
    18,482
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, and no (in that the best available isn't good enough).

    We need to return the field to hard science, and stay out of 'psychology'.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
    Lil Mike likes this.
  22. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2013
    Messages:
    25,394
    Likes Received:
    8,172
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Medical science also though leeches and bleeding was a viable cure for centuries and that women were often hysterical.

    As for the LGBTs, they're political, not scientific. Let's think this through; if sexual preference is mostly genetic then it's reasonable to assume it can be selected for either in a test tube or the womb. Sure, some dipshits may select "for" homosexuality, but most parents will want their kid to be normal. That is NOT something the LGBT wants to happen. They don't want to be seen as freaks who have a condition that needs to be cured.
     
  23. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    58,376
    Likes Received:
    4,438
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Agreed. Sex reassignment surgery is a great example. There is no evidence that sex reassignment surgery improves the mental health of the transgendered and much to indicate that it does not. Yet they freely advocate the use of such unproven treatments.
     
  24. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2013
    Messages:
    25,394
    Likes Received:
    8,172
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No one knows for sure. Most people are straight. Is there a "straight gene"? No. Why are they straight? Is it a choice? No. There's obviously a genetic component but it's not fully understood at this time.
     
  25. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    58,376
    Likes Received:
    4,438
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sorry, I was agreeing with you that DNA determines only sex, not sexual orientation, AND we were talking about sexual orientation not gender.
     

Share This Page