Abortionists killing babes after birth? Infanticide okay?

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by Iron_Merc, Oct 23, 2019.

  1. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    .

    Yes, you imply all women were forced to have abortions because they are so weak minded and easily influenced that they can't think for themselves....just another sign of the sickness of misogyny.


    LOL! It is so ridiculous to make it an "evil plot" to put clinics in heavily populated areas !!! OOOHHHH so EVIL...to put clinics where they are NEEDED, where the most people who need them are... :eekeyes:....seems the logic of that escaped someone...


    Meanwhile , women just keep right on having all the sex they want ( without YOU ;) )...and getting abortion when they CHOOSE ….:)[/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  2. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    no, you have never explained "" "what is the difference between an abortion procedure/outcome due to rape and an abortion procedure/outcome due to consensual sex..."""

    you have ducked and dodged and complained that the letters were too big and you didn't like my posting style and everything but answer that question.

    you seemed confused and thought that an abortion procedure had something to do with whether the sex was consensual or not .

    ok, you are not an anti-choicer but you do admit it is all about punishing women for having sex right here : ""As I have said many times already, the problem with abortion - as I view it - is not abortion itself, but rather is it what causes it and the motive(s) behind that action. Knowingly engaging in what gets you pregnant when you do not want pregnancy is, quite clearly, irresponsible and we do not want a society of irresponsible citizens, do we?""





    most anti-choicers claim it's all about that "precious life" when they really are like you and want to punish women for having sex, especially sex without them :)...and that's what it's really about.


    <Reply to Deleted>
     
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  3. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    <Rule 2/3>

    The most common chain of causation when it comes to abortion is one of:
    Sex --> Unwanted pregnancy --> Abortion

    It is thus the first step that we ought to focus on since there can be no abortion without sex. Since my "problem" with abortion is about personal responsibilities and self-respect (which I have explained numerous times), the context of the intercourse determines the legitimacy of the abortion - If the sex is consensual, the pregnancy that may result from it is consensual as well, at least indirectly speaking. Rape is by definition non-consensual sex which means that the pregnancy that may result from it is non-consensual as well.

    Do you get it or do I need to copy-paste that for you?

    Randomly shooting someone in the face is murder. Shooting someone who is pointing a gun towards you is self-defense. Although the outcome of these two scenarios are the same (a person dies), they are not the same.

    Do you get it or do I have to use caps, change of font colour and font size for you to understand?

    PS. Didn't your teachers teach you to start a sentence with capital letters?
     
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  4. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Still no answer to "what is the difference between an abortion procedure/outcome due to rape and an abortion procedure/outcome due to consensual sex...""


    I did not ask what the difference is between consensual and non consensual sex....WHERE did I ask that.??????


    I ask AGAIN: what is the difference between an abortion procedure/outcome due to rape and an abortion procedure/outcome due to consensual sex...""



    OBVIOUSLY I will have to answer.

    There is NO difference between an abortion due to rape and an abortion due to consensual sex.


    SO, those who make exceptions for rape show that they only want to punish women who had consensual sex as one poster has already admitted..
     
  5. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Where in that sentence do I "admit to wanting to punish women"? <Rule 2/3>

    Where did I say I want to punish women for having sex? Where did I say I want to punish women for having sex?Where did I say I want to punish women for having sex?Where did I say I want to punish women for having sex?Where did I say I want to punish women for having sex?Where did I say I want to punish women for having sex?Where did I say I want to punish women for having sex?Where did I say I want to punish women for having sex?Where did I say I want to punish women for having sex?Where did I say I want to punish women for having sex?Where did I say I want to punish women for having sex?Where did I say I want to punish women for having sex?Where did I say I want to punish women for having sex?Where did I say I want to punish women for having sex?Where did I say I want to punish women for having sex?

    <Reply to Deleted>
     
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  6. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    no, you have never explained "" "what is the difference between an abortion procedure/outcome due to rape and an abortion procedure/outcome due to consensual sex..."""

    you have ducked and dodged and complained that the letters were too big and you didn't like my posting style and everything but answer that question.

    you seemed confused and thought that an abortion procedure had something to do with whether the sex was consensual or not .

    ok, you are not an anti-choicer but you do admit it is all about punishing women for having sex right here : ""As I have said many times already, the problem with abortion - as I view it - is not abortion itself, but rather is it what causes it and the motive(s) behind that action. Knowingly engaging in what gets you pregnant when you do not want pregnancy is, quite clearly, irresponsible and we do not want a society of irresponsible citizens, do we?""




    most anti-choicers claim it's all about that "precious life" when they really are like you and want to punish women for having sex, especially sex without them :)...and that's what it's really about.


    <Reply to Deleted>





    No, it isn't. Consent to one act is not consent to any other act. Ask a lawyer.

    The woman's wishes determine the "legitimacy" of the abortion....and abortion is legitimate (legal) already :)



    .

    Shooting someone in the face is the same procedure and outcome whether in self defense or not.

    same as the abortion procedure but you said the abortion itself is not what you object to.


    Well, you did say "big letters" caused you to not answer posts...so i left off the capitals...now you ask why i don't use them....


    <Reply to Deleted>


    Again, you made it plain that you think women who have consensual sex should lose the right to bodily autonomy and be forced to gestate...

    that is punishment.


    BTW, no woman can really "consent" to get pregnant...she either gets pregnant or not, "consenting" to it doesn't mean she can or will.
     
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  7. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Active Member

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    I don't recall anyone proving me wrong. I recall people cherry picking their favorite last words from the other gospels but the earliest gospels Matthew and Mark had his last words as "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" A statement I find strange.

    But what I am talking about is a question of ethics and pro-life's view of reality in black and white.

    Suppose it were legal to kill your child up to age 3 and there were clinics and staff that did that. Would the pro-life people act differently or just wait for the laws to change. I know I would act differently. I would be of the belief that anything short of murder could be used to stop it. Fire bombing clinics, harassment, going to jail, all fair game. Do you see the difference? The pro-life people do not actually believe a fetus has the same right to life as a born baby by their actions. When they have a choice of saving the fetus or the mother it is always the mother. She has more of a right to life.

    The pro-life people cannot seem to admit that from a zygote to term the right to life varies because they live in a black and white world.
     
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  8. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Then explain your words : """"As I have said many times already, the problem with abortion - as I view it - is not abortion itself, but rather is it what causes it and the motive(s) behind that action. Knowingly engaging in what gets you pregnant when you do not want pregnancy is, quite clearly, irresponsible and we do not want a society of irresponsible citizens, do we?""






    LOL! So are not for banning abortion ! Good for you!!!
     
  9. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    <Mod Edit>

    Your posting style is far from perfect. However, I have actually answered your silly "gotcha question" more than once and I am not going to do it again. If you are interested in my answer you are free to just scroll up and read through the thread.

    Eh, no. That would describe you. I am saying that an abortion is an abortion and that consent is consent.

    Below follows a few of my quotes:

    In this post, I - very clearly - point out that I am not at all for "punishing women".

    In this post, I - very clearly - point out that I am not for "punishing women" and that I do not view a fetus as a "precious life".

    From this sentence, it is quite obvious that I am not "Anti Choice".

    <Rule 2>

    It is if the two are directly related.

    <Mod Edit>

    #askalawyer

    That is not at all what I am discussing though.

    <Rule 2/3>

    <Rule 2/3>

    No. I did not. Show me where I did that.

    I was planned, so that kind of contradicts what you are saying above.
     
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  10. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    how does forced gestation contribute to "good parenting"..

    how does taking away women's right of bodily autonomy support "liberty"


    if abortion is a symptom of an "ill society" then society has been "ill" for thousands of years.....

    how do you plan to change that?

    abortion wouldn't have to be politicized if those trying to take away women's right to their own bodies would just mind their own business...
     
  11. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    It is very simple. If all pregnancies are wanted, it means all children are wanted and if all children are wanted, all children will be raised with love.

    It doesn't. What's your point?

    Yes.

    By not getting a random girl pregnant.

    Abortion would not have to be politicised if we got rid of all politcians. Indeed.
     
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  12. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    I am fluent in four languages and could translate it into one or all of them if you want me to....
     
  13. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    No, it doesn't

    , no woman can really "consent" to get pregnant...she either gets pregnant or not, "consenting" to it doesn't mean she can or will.

    "planning" to get pregnant does not mean a woman will get pregnant....she either does or doesn't...consenting to getting pregnant does not mean she will get pregnant.
     
  14. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    Then explain your words : """"As I have said many times already, the problem with abortion - as I view it - is not abortion itself, but rather is it what causes it and the motive(s) behind that action. Knowingly engaging in what gets you pregnant when you do not want pregnancy is, quite clearly, irresponsible and we do not want a society of irresponsible citizens, do we?""



    then explain what your point is in the following:

    """"""As I have said many times already, the problem with abortion - as I view it - is not abortion itself, but rather is it what causes it and the motive(s) behind that action. Knowingly engaging in what gets you pregnant when you do not want pregnancy is, quite clearly, irresponsible and we do not want a society of irresponsible citizens, do we?""


    Why do you want people who you deem "irresponsible" to become parents?

    Confucius say: ""a person can speak many languages and not have understanding in any of them.""
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  15. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    However, what is more important to my case is that a woman can plan not to get pregnant and that is the only thing I have ever talked about.
     
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  16. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    I mean what it says. Just read it.

    My point is that I do not want the irresponsible to become parents.


    Okay.... And?
     
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  17. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Yup, she can plan to not get pregnant but she may.

    but consenting to pregnancy doesn't mean she will get pregnant...and consent to one act (sex) is not consent to any other act.



    Why do you want people who you deem "irresponsible" to raise children?
     
  18. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. Finally!

    It is in this context.

    I deem sleeping around irresponsible and it is sleeping around that I want to stop. So, I do not really see how you make that conclusion.
     
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  19. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    ok, no point I can see..





    and yet you call women who have abortions irresponsible...you are contradicting yourself...


    if a woman is, as you say, irresponsible for getting pregnant then why would you think she'd be a "responsible " parent.

    That takes people who want to have kids...and even they aren't always "responsible"..


    The point is, you can't determine what is or isn't "responsible" for others.


    :) it was self explanatory.
     
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  20. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    lololol you want to stop, after thousands and thousands of years, humans from "sleeping around" !!!!!

    OMGAWD!

    do let me know your plan for altering all of human nature...


    ...oh, and I do see how you ignored women in monogamous relationships who have abortions...
     
  21. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    No, no, no, no, no. I call men who impregnate women and women who allow themselves to be impregnated when neither wants a child irresponsible.

    She wouldn't and that is why she shouldn't be pregnant to begin with. For the trillionth time, my problem is not abortion. My problem is aimless sex in excess.

    And?

    Of course I can. I happen to believe in objective morals since that is the only way in which we can build a functioning society.
     
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  22. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    It is very simple. By minding my own business. I can only make decisions for myself, so I will do this by living according to my principles and teach my children the same principles.

    I am not against abortion.
     
  23. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    You realize that lots of married women get abortions, right? They aren't "sleeping around". Some have health issues that make a pregnancy problematic (high blood-pressure, mental issues, scar tissue from past C sections - any number of complications). Others may experience postpartum so intensely from a first pregnancy, that a second is just too much of a risk. Some may have sudden financial emergencies that make carrying to term too stressful. You are trying to fit women into a "slut" box that is far from the whole picture.
     
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  24. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    .


    so it follows that you want people you deem "irresponsible" to raise children.





    puh-lease, you have now gone into a world of make believe....you will be very frustrated in your futile attempt to change the sex habits of humans...that is a control issue gone wild.



    and even parents who want children aren't always responsible....isn't it obvious?




    Humans have been building functioning societies since there were humans...all the while having lots of sex :)

    Societies can function, and have functioned, without humans being bred like animals in cages, controlled with no liberty or rights..
     
  25. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    uh, how will that change human nature???

    now if only those who want to ban abortion, vilify women who have them, just mind their own business we wouldn't need this discussion...


    I didn't say you were, I said ""and I do see how you ignored women in monogamous relationships who have abortions...""

    You seemed to insist abortion was caused by sleeping around and I corrected that mistake.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019

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