About the Holocaust

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by stan1990, Mar 11, 2019.

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Do you agree with the thoughts expressed in this thread?

Poll closed Apr 10, 2019.
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  1. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    This is not how "Holocaust" is defined. The Holocaust in this context is a deliberate, planned and based on work-sharing extermination of Jews using industrial methods.

    Almost all HC deniers believe that only a few Jews were tortured and killed by criminals against the orders of the Nazi regime. This is exactly what makes them Holocaust deniers. They reject the big picture.

    There weren't "so many," but apparently they were capable people who were useful to the Nazis.

    After the end of WW2, some old Nazis were reinstated in important positions to get Germany running again. For the same reason. One couldn't easily get a replacement.
     
  2. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Donor

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    It seems like you're contradicting yourself.

    The SHN (standard holocaust narrative) is that all Jews were persecuted simply because they were Jewish. If any Jews were knowingly not only spared but publicly honored and placed in high ranking positions either in Hitler's government or Hitler's military then, the basic premise of the basic SHN is false.

    If the Nazis were determined to destroy Europe's entire Jewish community simply because they were Jewish, they would not have allowed even one Jew to serve in Hitler's military and certainly not have publicly and knowingly honored many other Jews or placed some Jews in positions of such high command over entire divisions.

    Why would so many Jewish individuals fight to preserve a government that is "systematically" destroying their own kin on an "industrial scale"?

    By the way, if Hitler had such a virulent hatred toward all Jewish individuals, why did he allow 150,000 Jews to serve in his military, spare so many Jewish physicians (1), other Jewish individuals with whom he served in WW 1 and maintain a friendship with little Rosa Nienau(2) with whom he shared the same birthday?

    Thanks,



    (1) Hitler’s Jewish Physicians
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4128594/


    (2) "Remarkable tale of Hitler's young Jewish friend"
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46192941
     
  3. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    For the Nazis, Jews were a dangerous anti-race, opponents of the "Aryans" and seeking for world leadership. The Nazis believed they had to exterminate the Jews before the Jews doing the same to them.

    The Nazi worldview was strictly biological, like that of an animal breeder. They believed that a huge Aryan people's body could neutralize a small amount of Jewish genes.

    They weren't Jews anymore. Many of them converted to Christianity. However, they didn't know that in case of doubt this does not help them.
    For the Nazis, only descent ultimately counted. :(
     
  4. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    Where does this number come from?
     
  5. Quasar44

    Quasar44 Newly Registered

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    no vast majority of Jews were simple Middle and Upper Middle class business leaders , bankers , doctors of society
     
  6. Pag

    Pag Active Member

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    Couldn't agree more . The history is written by the victors . And the conquered is not necessarily evil like hitler.
     
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  7. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Donor

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    Thank you.

    While I do not support totalitarianism in any form whether it is in the form of Nazism, Communism or even repressive "Holocaust denial" laws, I do not believe that any race, nationality or ethnic group has a monopoly on either Good or Evil.

    While it is easy for those of us living in the 21st century to condemn what happened in Germany after WW 1, I am confident that self righteous critics of the Germans would have eagerly embraced any form of government that would have brought relief from the type of misery inflicted on Germany by the post WW 1 Allied Powers.

    Just one example of many post WW 1 atrocities is:

    "The Starving of Germany in 1919"
    https://beyondthirtynine.com/the-starving-of-germany-in-1919/

    EXCERPT "The reason for the food blockade to be kept in place after the end of the hostilities was aimed at forcing Germany to sign the Versailles Treaty without any change on the strict conditions they were imposing. Today no one remembers it because it was kept secret and there were no leaks to the western press while 900,000 German men, women and children died because of the British naval blockade. Even today only a few non-Germans know the truth and American and British historians, seems to have brushed off this most appalling crime as a footnote in history."CONTINUED

    Finally, few people know that Stalin was prepared & poised to sweep across Europe in 1941 regardless of what Germany did:

    "Exposing Stalin’s Plan to Conquer Europe:…"
    https://www.counter-currents.com/201...onquer-europe/

    EXCERPT "In Icebreaker, Suvorov details the deployment of Soviet forces in June 1941, describing just how Stalin amassed vast numbers of troops and stores of weapons along the European frontier, not to defend the Soviet homeland but in preparation for a westward attack and decisive battles on enemy territory.

    Thus, when German forces struck, the bulk of Red ground and air forces were concentrated along the Soviet western borders facing contiguous European countries, especially the German Reich and Romania, in final readiness for an assault on Europe." CONTINUED

    Best wishes & welcome to this forum.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
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  8. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Donor

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    The fact that 150,000 Jewish individuals served in Hitler's armies was uncovered through the research and extensive interviews conducted by historian Brian Rigg in his book "Hitler's Jewish Soldiers".
    Not only did these Jews and "Mischlings" serve as soldiers, many were promoted to the highest ranks and publicly received Germany's highest military honors with the full knowledge and approval of high ranking Nazis.

    This simple fact, alone, debunks the holocaust legend that all Jews were persecuted, rounded up & interred in camps.

    Not only did 150,000 Jews serve in Germany's WW 2 military but about 2 million non Germans from around the world joined the German WW 2 military in their fight against Communism(1)

    In WW 1, it is estimated that about 100,000 Jewish soldiers fought for Germany



    "AS MANY AS 150000 JEWS SERVED IN HITLERS MILITARY"
    https://thegreateststorynevertold.tv/as-many-as-150000-jews-served-in-hitlers-military/

    EXCERPT "As many as 150000 Jews served in Hitlers military, some with the Nazi leader's explicit consent, according to a U.S. historian who has interviewed hundreds of former soldiers.

    Bryan Mark Rigg, history professor at the American Military University in Virginia, told Reuters on Thursday that the issue of soldiers of partial Jewish descent was long a somewhat taboo subject, overlooked by most academics as it threw up thorny questions."CONTINUED



    (1) "Adolf Hitler’s Armed Forces: A Triumph for Diversity?"
    https://www.inconvenienthistory.com/1/3/3102

    EXCERPTS " I ask those historians who still believe that Hitler and the Nazis were “white supremacists”: how do you account for the incredible degree of non-German and ethnic minority (i.e., 150,000 Jews and Jewish Mischlinge) collaboration during World War II? Again, some two million non-Germans helped the Nazis.

    The important thing to realize is that had the Nazis been as racist as most historians have argued, then they could not possibly have garnered the immeasurable level of support that they did. Even after Stalingrad; Spaniards, Slavs, Franks, and tens of- thousands of other non-Germans continued to fight for the Nazis on a volunteer basis."CONTINUED
     
  9. Anonymous.Professor

    Anonymous.Professor Newly Registered

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    Well Goebbles has in his diary quite some remarks about Jews. For example he wrote on 7.3.1942: I was reading the report of SD and police about the final solution of Jewsih question. It contain many new aspects. We must solve the Jewish question in whole of Europe. In Europe we have now more than 11 milions of Jews. For the beginning we should gather them in east, maybe after the war we can send them to some island, like Madagascar. Be it one way or another there will be no peace in Europe before Jews are removed from it.

    This is opening many delicate questions. What to do with half Jews? And what to do with those who are their relatives by blood or married with them. Apparently a lot of work is before us and without a doubt many tragedies will happen. But we must do it. Conditions are prepared for final solution of Jewish question. Future generations will lack the will, alertness and instinct. So we are doing a good work with this when we continue resolute and consistent. The burden which we take today on ourselves will mean advantage and happiness for future generations.

    Gobbles diary, 1981, Maribor, page 159.

    And i day before he wrote: Certainly i am of the opinion the more Jews will be liquidated the more stable Europe we will have after the war. We should not surrender to false sentimentalism. Jews are accident for Europe. We should destroy them othervise we risk they will destroy us.
     
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  10. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Donor

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    Re:
    You are partly right in that Germany's NS government feared some of the world's Jews due to a global Jewish boycott of all German goods and a declaration of war by "Judea" (aka world Jewry)(1) as early as 1933 which was the first declaration of war in WW 2.
    .
    Most of all, Hitler feared the massive Communist movement in Soviet Russia whose leadership was made up of ruthless Communist Jews like Leonid Reichman, Ginrikh Yagota etc(2). Even though Stalin purged much of the Jewish Communist leadership later, he was still prepared & poised to conquer all of Western Europe & did invade Iran with the British in 1941.
    With Stalin's massive army, extensive resources and actual ability to conquer large parts of the world, who knows how far he would have gotten if Germany had not launched it's pre-emptive strike.

    Jews who were loyal to Germany such as the many Jews who served in Germany's military and their families were much less likely to face persecution than the Bolshevik & Communist Jews who threatened Germany's survival during the post WW 1 chaos & starvation.

    The NS German leadership had no actual intentions to "conquer the world" because even with the 2 million non-German volunteer soldiers, Germany lacked the manpower and resources to do so and the German High Command knew it.



    "Jews Declare War on Germany 1933"
    https://archive.org/stream/JewsDeclareWarOnGermany1933/JewsDeclareWarOnGermany1933_djvu.txt

    EXCERPT "Jews Of All The World Unite ..."

    "Judea Declares War on Germany!" - Daily Express headline, March 24, 1933.

    "Judea Declares War on Germany! Jews of all the World Unite! Boycott of German Goods!

    Mass Demonstrations!" - These were all headlines in the Daily Express on March 24, 1933.

    "The Israeli people around the world declare economic and financial war against Germany.

    Fourteen million Jews stand together as one man, to declare war against Germany. The Jewish

    wholesaler will forsake his firm, the banker his stock exchange, the merchant his commerce and

    the pauper his pitiful shed in order to join together in a holy war against Hitler's people." - Daily

    Express, March 24, 1933"CONTINUED


    (2) "Stalin's Jews"

    "We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish"

    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

    EXCERPT "And us, the Jews? An Israeli student finishes high school without ever hearing the name "Genrikh Yagoda," the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, the GPU's deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD. Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin's collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people."CONTINUED
     
  11. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    On the other hand, I recently saw an interview with an old woman.

    She was one of Goebbels' secretaries. She said that Goebbels was very uncomfortable with a "final solution" based on murder. She also told of Goebbels's privately rejection of the war against Poland in 1939. Instead, as the Nazi Minister of Propaganda, he had to endorse the attack on Poland.

    In general, the old woman wanted to give the impression that Goebbels rejected violence. But she may be a liar. Nobody can verify that today. :(
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
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  12. Anonymous.Professor

    Anonymous.Professor Newly Registered

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    Goebbles himself wrote on 14.2.1942 in his diary that Jews will exprerince their biggest catastrophy together with bolshevism. Hitler confirmed again he wrote that he will purge Jews from Europe without mercy.
    No hypersensitivity for that matter. The Jews deserved the catastrophe coming over their heads. Their destruction will take the same step as the destruction of our enemies. We need to accelerate this process with cold calculus. Thus we will do an invaluable favor to humanity.

    Goebbles was writting this in the time when operation Reinhard started or the extermination of Polish Jews. Polish Jews were mostly killed in gas chambers ( using mostly carbon monoxide ) at Treblinka, Sobibor and Belzec during the operation which ended in November 1943. Others were killed in Auschwitz II Birkenau where Zyklon B was used.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Reinhard

    https://www.britannica.com/place/Treblinka


    It is interesting also to see from his writings that he and Hitler were both worried about the so called jellow peril in far east ( Japanese ) and were sorry for the loses of white race there, yet they thought others are to blame for this disgrace. So under surface alliance with Japanese was seen as some kind of lesser evil.
     
  13. Anonymous.Professor

    Anonymous.Professor Newly Registered

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    Pitbull concerning your question about Jews in German army. Nazis did not have the same criteria to determine who is Jew as we today. Normally Jew is somebody who is born from Jewish mother. According to this Hitler's father was Jew ( yet also a christian or catholic ), but Hitler was not. Goebbles mentioned the problem in his diary as i mentioned before. But according to Nazi criteria you were considered Jew if:

    As defined by the Nuremberg laws in 1935, a Jew was a person – regardless of religious affiliation or self-identification – who had at least three grandparents who had been enrolled with a Jewish congregation. A person with two Jewish grandparents was also legally "Jewish" if that person met any of these conditions:

    • Was enrolled as member of a Jewish congregation when the Nuremberg Laws were issued, or joined later
    • Was married to a Jew.
    • Was the offspring from a marriage with a Jew, which was concluded after the ban on mixed marriages.
    • Was the offspring of an extramarital affair with a Jew, born out of wedlock after 31 July 1936.
    A person who did not belong to any of these categorical conditions but had two Jewish grandparents was classified as a Jewish Mischling ( mixed race ) of the first degree. A person with only one Jewish grandparent was classified as a Mischling of the second degree.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mischling

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
  14. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    Jews were a biological race for the Nazis. Nazis didn't accept conversion to another religion. A Jew had to be Jewish forever. Nobody could give up his Jewish identity.

    In contradiction to this, the Nazis invented the "Gesinnungsjude" (Jew by attitude), so they could pass over anyone they didn't like to the death mills of the Holocaust.
    It is said that Herman Goering once said: "I determine who's a Jew!"
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
  15. Quasar44

    Quasar44 Newly Registered

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    Now Israel is thriving and Germany is dying
     
  16. Anonymous.Professor

    Anonymous.Professor Newly Registered

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    In what a way do you think Germany is dying? After the fall of communism Germany reunited. German economy is strong today and was strong during cold war. At least in west Germany. Today it is dying because of islamization? If so also France, Italy, Spain, England, Sweden etc. are dying. If so they need Trump revolution. :)
     
  17. Anonymous.Professor

    Anonymous.Professor Newly Registered

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    Pitbull yeah, but Jews are not biological race. The genetic origin of the Jews today is mixed since very different people through history accepted judaism and become part of Jews or better Jewish family. Jews quite corretly often call themselves a family. So they are not race but kind of big family. Today religion in such big family is not so much important since many Jews are atheists and many are very liberal also concerning religion, but in the past it was different. If you were not of jewish religion but from Jewsih family you could easly be considered as an outcast.
     
  18. Quasar44

    Quasar44 Newly Registered

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    Jews outside of NYC in the USA have intermarriage rates from 40-80 percent
    Its disappearing in much of America due to atheism and liberalism
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  19. Anonymous.Professor

    Anonymous.Professor Newly Registered

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    Ok... let us return to Joseph Goebbles. In his diary he says that English elite is so much currupted by intermarriage with Jews that it can hardly be considered English. So for National socialists intermarriage was not a solution but rather a way of corruption ( 12.3.1942 ).

    But i want to add that if you think Nazis were anti-islamic that is wrong impression. They considered Arabs as inferior race yes, but islam as superior religion, it being like the religion of warriors, contrary to 'weak' christianity. Nazis allied with Al-Husseini the grand mufti of Jerusalem and he helped them to organize SS units from muslims in Balkans.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini#In_Nazi-occupied_Europe



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Waffen_Mountain_Division_of_the_SS_Handschar_(1st_Croatian)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21st_Waffen_Mountain_Division_of_the_SS_Skanderbeg
     
  20. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Donor

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    I believe that last week you asked me to support the fact that 150,000 Jews served in Hitler's armies and I did so on Thursday (Post # 733) and today will add the following source:

    “Hitler’s Jewish Army”
    http://counterpsyops.com/2013/02/14/...-hitlers-army/

    EXCERPT “Thousands of men of Jewish descent and hundreds of what the Nazis called ‘full Jews’ served in the German military with Adolf Hitler’s knowledge and approval.

    In approximately 20 cases, Jewish soldiers in the Nazi army were awarded(*)Germany’s highest military honor, the Knight’s Cross.

    Jews also served in the Nazi police and security forces as ghetto police(Ordnungdienst)(*)and concentration camp guards(*)(kapos).

    So what happens to the claim that Hitler sought to exterminate all Jews, when he allowed some of them to join in his struggle against Bolshevism and International finance capitalism?

    If the Jews were permitted to serve in Hitler’s armed forces then there could not have been a Holocaust.”CONTINUED

    . . . . . .

    Not only did Jews serve in the SS, the Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe, Kriegsmarine etc but many Jews were promoted to the highest ranks and were awarded Germany's highest military honors with the full knowledge of Hitler and the rest of the German High Command.

    Additionally, there were Jews who were high ranking members of Germany's Nazi Party(1)

    These simple facts, alone, debunk the holocaust legend that all Jews were persecuted, rounded up & interred in camps.

    Not only did 150,000 Jews serve in Germany's WW 2 military but about 2 million non Germans from around the world joined the German WW 2 military in their fight against expanding global Communism and malevolent Bolshevism. (2)

    So, how could there be any validity to the standard holocaust narrative if so many Jews not only survived but enjoyed public military honors and successes with the full knowledge of Hitler & the Nazi high command?

    Thanks,


    (1) "List of Nazis of non-Germanic descent"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazis_of_non-Germanic_descent

    EXCERPT "Notably, there were several high-ranking Nazis of partial Jewish descent."CONTINUED


    (2)"Adolf Hitler’s Armed Forces: A Triumph for Diversity?"
    https://www.inconvenienthistory.com/1/3/3102

    EXCERPTS " I ask those historians who still believe that Hitler and the Nazis were “white supremacists”: how do you account for the incredible degree of non-German and ethnic minority (i.e., 150,000 Jews and Jewish Mischlinge) collaboration during World War II? Again, some two million non-Germans helped the Nazis.

    The important thing to realize is that had the Nazis been as racist as most historians have argued, then they could not possibly have garnered the immeasurable level of support that they did. Even after Stalingrad; Spaniards, Slavs, Franks, and tens of- thousands of other non-Germans continued to fight for the Nazis on a volunteer basis."CONTINUED
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  21. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    I have no doubt that some German Jews fought for Hitler. They considered themselves more as Germans than as Jews. Yet their life was in danger every second because they were of Jewish ancestry.
     
  22. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    Only (neo-)Nazis and Zionist extremists consider Jews to be a race. Racial anti-Semitism is the basis of the Holocaust.
     
  23. Anonymous.Professor

    Anonymous.Professor Newly Registered

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    Pretty much the same as some bilingual Poles were fighting for the Germans. Nazis had a plan to expell, enslave and sterilize/castrate Poles but some Poles they considered as Germans. Btw also some Slovenes were considered Germans ( of Vandal ancestry - they like started to speak Slovene language somehow for unknown reason sometime in history ) by Nazis and also Croats ( Goths or Aryans from ancient Iran ) and Muslims in Bosnia ( considered as Croats of muslim religion, by ustasha and by Germans ).

    However for some Zionists which you mentioned Croats are Israelites. Lost tribes from northern Israel=Sarmatians=Croats=Slovenes. ( but this is for ''conspiracy theory'' topic of course ). But see for example here pro-Likud newspaper Israel Hayom is writting about lost Israelites in Nigeria ( of black skin ), they hope to be re-connected again with Israel:

    https://www.israelhayom.com/2019/05/17/the-lost-jewish-tribes-of-nigeria-still-hope-for-aliyah/
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  24. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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  25. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    Same applied to Ukrainians and Belarusians. The Nazis sought "Aryans" among the peoples who they could preserve. All others had to die. :(

    BTW, I very much appreciate an expert like you who takes part in this discussion. Go ahead, Brother!
    :)
    Btw2, I'm of Polish descent living in Germany. I'm not Jewish.
     
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