About the Holocaust

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by stan1990, Mar 11, 2019.

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Do you agree with the thoughts expressed in this thread?

Poll closed Apr 10, 2019.
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  1. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Donor

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    Hello, Grau;
    some time ago I read that the Encyclopedia Britannica has been newly printed by a Jewish company. Today I have finally followed up on it and found the following:

    Encyclopedia Britannica owned by Jewish billionaire
    The 1961 edition of the Encylcopedia Britannica contained only two short paragraphs on the holocaust out of its 24 volumes of fine print.
    The holocaust wasn’t even referred to as “the holocaust,” and didn’t have its own entry, being only briefly mentioned in the articles on Adolf Hitler and the Jews.

    The point is that back then “the holocaust” was, to use the words of French politician Jean-Marie Le Pen, merely a “footnote of history,”** whereas today it has become the central event of WWII, and indeed, of the entire 20th century.

    Few people know that Stalin and his Jewish commissar Lazar Kaganovich deliberately starved 10 million Ukrainian peasants to death while Western Europe and the United States turned a blind eye, but every schoolchild today “knows” that Adolf Hitler and the Germans killed 6 million perfectly innocent Jews in gas chambers.

    How did this popularization of the holocaust come about?
    Starting in the 1970s, Jews, using their disproportionate power and influence in the mass media and academia, began a relentless propaganda campaign. That’s how.

    Who were the publishers of the Encyclopedia Britannica in 1961? was the encyclopedia owned by Nazi sympathizers? After doing some research no secret Nazis were found, but it was discovered that since 1996, the Encyclopedia Britannica has been owned by Jewish billionaire Jacqui (Jacob) Eli Safra!
    Safra is a movie producer and the heir of a Jewish banking family. Additionally, starting in May 2001, Britannica’s CEO was an Israeli Jew named Ilan Yeshua, who had previously worked for the Tel Aviv-based educational technology firm Centre for Educational Technology, which was aquired by Safra’s Britannica.com.

    Read complete article here:
    https://igoralexander.wordpress.com/2009/06/02/encyclopedia-britannica-owned-by-jewish-billionaire/
    ------
    Too bad I don't own any Britannica to look up the entry about the Holocaust.
    To be fair, one can not expect the Jews to know all the exact details right after the war ended. They first had to figure out where everyone was and who was missing and what happened where.
    ~ ~ ~

    Update: Re "Footnote"**... Le Pen didn’t actually say that the holocaust was a “footnote of history,” but rather, that the alleged homicidal gas chambers were a minor “detail of history.”

    Jean-Marie Le-Pen's Notorious 'Detail' Remark About World War II


    http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v21/v21n2p-2_lepen.html
     
  2. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    That's not entirely correct. The owner of EB is "Jacqui Safra", a millionaire from Brazil. He has Jewish ancestors, but does this really matter?

    The anti-Semitism shaped by Hitler is not only racist but also anti-capitalist motivated. Hatred of the rich and hatred of Jews merged to an unholy spirit spawning the Holocaust. :(
     
  3. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hello Jazz,

    Yes, it's just a simple fact that most of the major information outlets, Hollywood and MSM are Jewish owned and operated. It's also true that those same entities have successfully conspired to brainwashed many impressionable and gullible young minds into believing outright lies about Germany, the German people during the WW2 era.
    However, I don't automatically reject a source just because its owner/author is Jewish because I don't believe that all Jews or Jewish sources are bias toward grossly inflating what has come to be known as "THE Holocaust®".

    Norman Finkelstein is an example of a Jewish individual who sacrificed his career to expose the grossly corrupt nature of what he called "The Holocaust Industry". Benjamin Freedman is another Jewish individual who was not afraid to tell the truth about the corrupting influence of some Jewish individuals in positions of power. David Cole is another Jewish individual who has helped dismantle outright lies fabricated by the influential Holocaust Industry-Lobby.

    I've also found that Israeli media and some Jewish sources are far more objective in reporting on Israeli ethnic cleansing and Jewish mass murderers than US MSM. They are, of course, not completely unbiased but they are far more honest than US MSM.

    I must admit that I was surprised to read about Jewish mass murderers Genrikh Yagoda and Leonid Reichman from an Israeli news source(1) that stated: "We mustn't forget that some of the greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish"

    I do agree that today, Western MSM including Wikipedia, Encyclopedia Britannica etc simply parrot the same residual, WW2 & holocaust propaganda so that one has to dig deeper and think with an open and independent mind to arrive at an accurate account of events in 20th century Europe.

    Thanks,


    (1) "Stalin's Jews"

    "We mustn't forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish"

    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

    EXCERPT "And us, the Jews? An Israeli student finishes high school without ever hearing the name "Genrikh Yagoda," the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, the GPU's deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD. Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin's collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people.

    In 1934, according to published statistics, 38.5 percent of those holding the most senior posts in the Soviet security apparatuses were of Jewish origin. They too, of course, were gradually eliminated in the next purges.

    Many Jews sold their soul to the devil of the Communist revolution and have blood on their hands for eternity. We'll mention just one more: Leonid Reichman, head of the NKVD's special department and the organization's chief interrogator, who was a particularly cruel sadist."CONTINUED
     
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  4. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    Norman Finkelstein argues against the racist Zionist agenda but doesn't deny the Holocaust. Some of his family members were killed by Hitler's genocidal death machine.

    David Cole, on the other hand, is just another stupid Holocaust denier. He feels sorry for that now and he no longer denies the HC.

    Moshe Zuckerman also belongs in the hall of decent Jews. He's also a strong critic of the Zionist regime.
    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moshe_Zuckermann
    (sorry, German text only. WTF? Why he has no entry in the English Wikipedia?)
     
  5. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Donor

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    Here is another very nice Jewish man, Gilad Atzmon! He is my secret friend!! Listen to this video at around minute 14 on...
    https://gilad.online/writings/2019/6/29/i-denounce-the-holocaust-religion-but-i-am-not-alone

    He describes the moment where he for the first time realized that he didn't want to have anything to do with the Zionist doctrine.
     
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  6. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Donor

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    Here is a shocker:
    Ron Unz is Jewish!
    Here is a quote from him: "I think it far more likely than not that the standard Holocaust narrative is at least substantially false, and quite possibly, almost entirely so."

    And that comes from Wikipedia!!!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Unz
    ~ ~ ~

    If we are here debating whether there was a holocaust or not, or only half a one, then we should not get sidetracked by how the Zionists have behaved. We should focus solely on the subject!
    In my wanderings today I just now came upon a short statement which settles the question for me.
     
  7. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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  8. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    [​IMG]

    Re:
    In my Post # 1548 I noted that according to Zionist dominated Wikipedia(1),(2),(3), (4), Israel has only committed 11 massacres in over 70 years.
    Do you agree with that assessment?

    I agree that Wikipedia can be useful for many topics but it has an egregious bias when it comes to Israel-Palestine, the holocaust & WW2 era history.

    MSM continues to feature anyone who claims to be a "Holocaust survivor", countless people believe them without question and when they turn out to be frauds, no one says a word. Why do you continue to believe the lies they tell?
    @Kokomojojo posted just this one example earlier.

    "Holocaust Survivor" Fools Oprah !




    (1). "How Israel and its partisans work to censor the Internet"
    https://israelpalestinenews.org/israel-partisans-work-censor-internet/

    Campaign to infiltrate Wikipedia

    "CAMERA called for volunteers to secretly work on editing Wikipedia entries. It emphasized the importance of keeping the project secret. Volunteers were schooled in ways to elude detection. After they signed up as editors, they were to “avoid editing Israel-related articles for a short period of time.”CONTINUED


    (2). "Course: Zionist Editing on Wikipedia"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t52LB2fYhoY


    (3)"The right's latest weapon: 'Zionist editing' on Wikipedia" Haaretz"
    https://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2010/08/the-rights-latest-weapon-zionist-editing-on-wikipedia-haaretz.html

    EXCERPT"Now the Yesha Council of settlements and another right-wing group, Israel Sheli, are embarking on a Wikipedia battle: Zionist editing on the Web-based encyclopedia.

    The course was designed to teach how to register for, contribute to and edit for Wikipedia."CONTINUED


    (4). "Zionist Control of WikiPedia"
    http://www.ascertainthetruth.com/at...ls-the-media/429-zionist-control-of-wikipedia
     
  9. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    I think there are probably more than 11.

    But if Wikipedia were really dominated by Zionists, none of them would be declared a massacre. Zionists would call it "battle" or "conflict" or something like this, and they would claim that the Palestinians started it.

    You know how the distortion of history works. I don't have to explain his craft to an HC denier. :D

    The same claimed some Neo-Nazis, and they founded the Wikipedia clone "Metapedia": https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Metapedia

    I don't believe everyone. I believe in true history and it's scientific methods.
    Wikipedia again: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_method
     
  10. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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  11. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Re:
    Well, if Wikipedia was not Zionist dominated, more than 11 would be listed, wouldn't it?

    Another glaring example of gross Zionist domination of Wikipedia is its account of Israel's deliberate attack on the clearly marked USS Liberty which omits critical facts such as:
    - An Israeli pilot reported that the ship was clearly marked as American and ordered to attack anyway. He refused the order and was later punished for his ethical behavior
    - The initial attack on the USS Liberty was done with unmarked planes which targeted communication abilities
    - The Israelis even strafed lowered life rafts one of which is/was hanging in an Israeli museum as a "trophy"

    The deliberate omission of these and other salient details is a clear indication that Wikipedia is Zionist dominated and entirely unreliable when it comes to topics relating to the holocaust, WW2 and Israel-Palestine.
    Perhaps when you become older, more experienced and learn to use a wider range of sources you'll see this more clearly.


    Re:
    There is one critical reality you seem to have missed regarding the study of history: "The Victors write the history". Nowhere is it more evident that you're only getting the victor's version of history than your exclusive reliance on Wikipedia and MSM sources.

    I'm old enough to have missed the pervasive holocaust brainwashing inherent in today's schools & MSM and lucky enough to have known & learned from numerous truthful Holocaust survivors and WW2 Veterans from both sides of the European conflict. Like the thousands of former work camp inmates(1), not one of them saw or knew anything about homicidal gas chambers, steam chambers, electrocution chambers or "Conveyor Belts of Death" (2)

    Have you ever known, lived or worked with even one holocaust survivor or WW2 Veteran who claimed to have witnessed homicidal gas chambers, steam chambers, electrocution chambers or "Conveyor Belts of Death" (2)?

    The foremost characteristic of any scientific method is objectivity. In other words, you should not care what the outcome of any research project is.
    There are innumerable ways in which the holocaust legend is scientifically impossible.
    For example:

    EXCERPT " It requires 40-50 kilograms of coke to cremate one corpse which would require about 2000 tons of coke per day. The operating documents of Auschwitz concentration camp released from the Soviet archives reveal that the entire quantity of coke which was supplied for the crematoria throughout the entire period of the war was only 2,188 tons of coke which is enough to cremate only 60-70,000. Furthermore detailed aerial photographs of Auschwitz which were taken by American, British and South African planes show no signs of huge mountains of coke or huge mass graves or pits and no lines of people waiting outside a gas chamber"CONTINUED (3).


    Another of the numerous ways in which scientific facts destroy the fraudulent holocaust legend is:

    EXCERPT "There are 8760 hours in one year. It takes 2-3 hours to cremate a human body even with the most modern crematoria. If one crematory was operating 24 hours a day 365 days a year which is an impossible scenario you could cremate only 4380 bodies in one year. If 30 crematoria were running 24/7/365 you could cremate only 131,400 bodies in one year. If 30 crematoria were running 24/7/365 for 4 years you could cremate only 530,300 bodies." CONTINUED (3)

    Any honest and objective scientist would factor in the fact that it is impossible to run any muffle (oven) non-stop day after day. Therefore, it would be impossible to cremate 530,300 bodies in a four year period especially since there was only enough coal/coke to cremate 60,000 - 70,000 bodies over the entire period of operation.

    Among the more desperate lies that holocaustians try to promote is that bodies were burned in pits. This, too is impossible because the water table around Auschwitz is too high to permit open pit cremation. Additionally, mass open pit cremation is very labor intensive and leaves remains, none of which have been found.
    The remains of 1.1 million people would be impossible to hide.
    Where are they?


    (1)“The Problems of Mass Gassing”
    http://truedemocracyparty.net/2012/05/was-there-really-a-judaic-holocaust/

    EXCERPT “In 1945 it was announced that gas death chambers existed in all concentration camps in Poland, Germany, Austria and Alsace.

    Some 15 years later, in 1960, this was revised to the new claim that gas chambers existed only in camps located in Soviet held Poland.

    The Vatican and Red Cross interviewed thousands of freed camp inmates at the end of the War about alleged gas chambers. The response was always the same, "The detainees themselves have not spoken of them" (Red Cross document No. 9925, June 1946)." CONTINUED



    (2)"Auschwitz Electrical Conveyor belt of Death"
    https://disjecta.wordpress.com/2018/01/26/auschwitz-electrical-conveyor-belt-of-death/

    EXCERPT "It’s a little known fact that running alongside the scientifically implausible gas chambers at Auschwitz ran the electrified conveyor belts of death. These industrialised slaughter belts, we can assume took the passive cargo directly from the “cattle cars” and electrocuted the hapless victims without struggle then disposed of the evidence in Nazi furnaces. One can only guess at the “special devices” for killing children. Somehow visions of Willy Wonka’s Chocolate/extermination factory spring to mind."CONTINUED



    (3). "HOLOCAUST DEPROGRAMMING COURSE"
    https://holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com/
     
  12. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    I haven't missed that. But it applies only to totalitarian states. The Nazis and the Soviet Union (and other communist countries) used to teach "fake history" to the people.

    Of course, everyone tells the same thing, since there is only one truth. It's not a "version". There is no such thing as "alternative history".
     
  13. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Re:

    So, do you really believe that only the "other" side used propaganda?

    Once the Allies, including the Communists, started using propaganda lies about homicidal gas chambers, a genocidal agenda, German/Nazi responsibility for the Katyn massacre etc, they have to keep telling those same lies or finally admit that that they were lies.

    Slowly and quietly, the Allies have admitted that homicidal steam chambers, electrocution chambers, homicidal "vaporizers", the Katyn massacre, human skin pocketbooks, human fat soap etc were all outright and deliberate lies yet anyone who questioned these lies would have been slandered as a "holocaust denier".
    That's why the term is meaningless.

    Years ago, you would probably have believed and insisted that these lies were proof of German/Nazi malevolence.

    The myths about homicidal gas chambers and a genocidal "Final Solution" are just as fraudulent but Allied propagandists along with the Holocaust Industry - Lobby have chosen to hang onto these propaganda lies as proof of German/Nazi malevolence.

    I asked other questions in my previous post which you have chosen not to answer:

    1. "Well, if Wikipedia was not Zionist dominated, more than 11 (Israeli massacres) would be listed, wouldn't it?"

    2. "Have you ever known, lived or worked with even one holocaust survivor or WW2 Veteran who claimed to have witnessed homicidal gas chambers, steam chambers, electrocution chambers or "Conveyor Belts of Death"?

    3. "The remains of 1.1 million people would be impossible to hide.
    Where are they?"

    Earlier you stated:
    However, I showed through scientific methods and simple math that 1.1 million people could not have been murdered & cremated at Auschwitz:

    There are innumerable ways in which the holocaust legend is scientifically impossible.
    For example:

    EXCERPT " It requires 40-50 kilograms of coke to cremate one corpse which would require about 2000 tons of coke per day. The operating documents of Auschwitz concentration camp released from the Soviet archives reveal that the entire quantity of coke which was supplied for the crematoria throughout the entire period of the war was only 2,188 tons of coke which is enough to cremate only 60-70,000. Furthermore detailed aerial photographs of Auschwitz which were taken by American, British and South African planes show no signs of huge mountains of coke or huge mass graves or pits and no lines of people waiting outside a gas chamber"CONTINUED (1).


    Another of the numerous ways in which scientific facts destroy the fraudulent holocaust legend is:

    EXCERPT "There are 8760 hours in one year. It takes 2-3 hours to cremate a human body even with the most modern crematoria. If one crematory was operating 24 hours a day 365 days a year which is an impossible scenario you could cremate only 4380 bodies in one year. If 30 crematoria were running 24/7/365 you could cremate only 131,400 bodies in one year. If 30 crematoria were running 24/7/365 for 4 years you could cremate only 530,300 bodies." CONTINUED (1)

    Any honest and objective scientist would factor in the fact that it is impossible to run any muffle (oven) non-stop day after day. Therefore, it would be impossible to cremate 530,300 bodies in a four year period especially since there was only enough coal/coke to cremate 60,000 - 70,000 bodies over the entire period of operation.

    How can you believe in the scientific method where complete objectivity is required yet ignore the mathematical realities that prove the holocaust legend to be false?

    Thanks,



    (1). "HOLOCAUST DEPROGRAMMING COURSE"
    https://holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com/
     
  14. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There are two core realities I've tried to communicate since we began our lengthy exchange.

    The first is based on the ADL study that found that the vast majority of people around the world do not believe the profit driven lies espoused by the influential Holocaust Industry-Lobby(1) and its complicit Western MSM.

    I think that it's reasonable to assume that a greater number of independent thinking people reject the holocaust myths but chose not to express their true beliefs out of fear that they will be slandered as "Holocaust deniers" which is itself, a fraudulent term because very few doubt that part of the Holocaust "happened".

    In other words, no one I know of denies that some Bolsheviks, Communists, the Roma, Jews, homosexuals and genuine criminal rapists, murderers and thieves were interred in work camps where some were executed, some died of natural causes, some were discharged some worked for the 3rd Reich & some simply served their sentences.
    That's the extent of the grossly exaggerated, over sensationalized and crassly exploited "Holocaust" that was only recently invented and inflated beyond being a mere footnote in WW2 history.

    Except for a tiny minority who maintain that nothing happened, there's no such thing as a "Holocaust denier" which is simply a dishonest and maliciously fabricated term used to slander those who reject fraudulent embellishments created by the Holocaust Industry-Lobby to better market their over sensationalized "product".

    The second core reality I've tried to communicate is that the vast majority of people who refuse to be deceived by the Holocaust Industry-Lobby do not reject holocaustian cult mythology out of anti Semitism or a fondness for Nazism. They reject holocaust mythology not just because it defies common sense but because it has proven to be physically, scientifically and mathematically impossible as I've shown in my previous posts:

    It is impossible to cremate even one body in 15 minutes.

    Not a single homicidal gas, steam or electrocution chamber(2) was used to kill anyone in the Nazi occupied 3rd Reich.

    It is impossible to cremate anywhere close to 1.1 million people with only the 2,188 tons of coke(coal) that was delivered to Auschwitz during the entire war.

    If Hitler & the German High Command allowed Jews as members of the Nazi Party and permitted 150,000 Jews to serve in Germany's WW2 military, awarded them the highest honors and promoted them to the highest ranks, there could not have been a "Final Solution" to murder all of Europe's Jews.

    These are just a few of the countless number of facts that debunk the fraudulent holocaust narrative that have nothing to do with anti Semitism or pro Nazi sentiment.




    (1) ”THE WORLD IS FULL OF HOLOCAUST DENIERS”
    https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...he-world-is-full-of-holocaust-deniers/370870/

    EXCERPT “Only 54 percent of the world's population has heard of the Holocaust.

    This is the most staggering statistic in a new survey by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) of more than 53,000 people in over 100 countries, conducted by First International Resources.

    Only a third of the world's population believe the genocide has been accurately described in historical accounts.

    Some said they thought the number of people who died has been exaggerated; others said they believe it's a myth.

    Thirty percent of respondents said it's probably true that "Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust."

    - Hindus were most likely to believe that the number of Holocaust deaths has been exaggerated.

    - people younger than 65 were much more likely to say they believe that facts about the Holocaust have been distorted”CONTINUED


    "Auschwitz Electrical Conveyor belt of Death"

    https://disjecta.wordpress.com/2018/01/26/auschwitz-electrical-conveyor-belt-of-death/

    EXCERPT "It’s a little known fact that running alongside the scientifically implausible gas chambers at Auschwitz ran the electrified conveyor belts of death. These industrialised slaughter belts, we can assume took the passive cargo directly from the “cattle cars” and electrocuted the hapless victims without struggle then disposed of the evidence in Nazi furnaces. One can only guess at the “special devices” for killing children. Somehow visions of Willy Wonka’s Chocolate/extermination factory spring to mind."CONTINUED
     
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  15. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    To believe that there are 2 realities is your biggest mistake that you absolutely have to overcome. There's always one and only one reality and history.

    For us humans, the universe is strongly deterministic. What we call coincidence is only beyond our knowledge. In fact, there is no coincidence. And there are no multiple parallel time streams between we can switch back and forth as we like. So, only ONE real history exists.

    People reject history because reality makes them feel uncomfortable. It's damn painful for some folks to recognize that the Nazis deliberately murdered peaceful civilians, women and children alike. Therefore they keep believing in a fake history where that never happened. People who do this for emotional reasons are stupid, but people who deliberately distort the history of HC are rightly called Holocaust deniers.

    And you know, Bro, I don't take you for a dumbass. So I have no choice but to call you a Holocaust denier.
    It's not meant to be mean; It's not my intention to offend you. But it is as it is. The truth is unique in every context.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think that you misunderstood me when I wrote that there are "two core realities".
    I had hoped that you would have addressed my comment more fully so I've restated some of what I wrote in the hope that you would respond to these sentiments.

    You're right, there is only one reality. What would have been a better choice of words is that there are two salient facts (among many) concerning discussion of what has recently come to be known as THE Holocaust.

    The first salient fact is based on the ADL study that found that the vast majority of people around the world do not believe the profit driven lies espoused by the influential Holocaust Industry-Lobby and its complicit Western MSM.

    I think that it's reasonable to assume that a greater number of independent thinking people reject the holocaust myths but chose not to express their true beliefs out of fear that they will be slandered as "Holocaust deniers" which is itself, a fraudulent misnomer because very few doubt that part of the Holocaust "happened".

    In other words, people who are dishonestly slandered as "Holocaust deniers" do not deny that some Bolsheviks, Communists, the Roma, Jews, homosexuals and genuine criminal rapists, murderers and thieves were interred in work camps where some were executed, some died of natural causes, some were discharged some worked for the 3rd Reich & some simply served their sentences.

    Those are simply the facts. Do you doubt any of the above?

    It is a fact that there were many Jews who were high ranking members of the Nazi party just as it is a fact that about 150,000 Jews served in Hitler's armies with many of them rising to the highest ranks and receiving Germany's highest honors.

    In other words, the contention that all of Europe's Jews were persecuted is a deliberate lie that is a central part of the holocaust legend.


    The second salient fact that I was trying to communicate is that the vast majority of people who refuse to be deceived by the Holocaust Industry-Lobby do not reject holocaustian cult mythology out of anti Semitism or a fondness for Nazism. They reject holocaust mythology not just because it defies common sense but because it has proven to be physically, scientifically and mathematically impossible as I've shown in my previous posts:

    It is impossible to fit 3 people into 1 square foot. (1)

    It is impossible to cremate even one body in 15 minutes.

    Not a single homicidal gas, steam or electrocution chamber was used to kill anyone in the Nazi occupied 3rd Reich.

    It is impossible to cremate anywhere close to 1.1 million people with only the 2,188 tons of coke(coal) that was delivered to Auschwitz during the entire war.

    These are also simple facts that have nothing to do with anti Semitism or pro Nazi sentiment. In order to believe the holocaust legend one would have to believe things that are not physically, scientifically or mathematically possible.

    Re:
    And I don't think that I'm any more intelligent then you. I simply feel that because I'm older, missed early age holocaust brainwashing and have had the benefit of living with, working with and knowing holocaust survivors and WW2 Veterans from both sides of the conflict, I can see what is called the holocaust more objectively.

    Re:
    Of course you have a choice, you could try to refute my arguments and address my points rather than resort to name calling.
    Why call anyone anything unless you cannot refute their arguments and have to make the discussion about the person rather than the topic at hand?

    Don't worry, I'm not offended because the term "Holocaust denier" is a vapid and worn out misnomer that becomes more and more meaningless every time another holocaustian lie is exposed.




    (1). "Ruins of Bunker 2"
    https://www.scrapbookpages.com/AuschwitzScrapbook/Tour/Birkenau/RuinsBunker2.html

    EXCERPTS "As the four photos above show, Bunker 2 was divided into four small rooms which had the capacity to kill 1,200 Jews at a time, according to Laurence Rees, the author of "Auschwitz, a New History."

    According to a book entitled "The Bombing of Auschwitz: Should the Allies Have Attempted It?" by Michael J. Neufeld and Michael Berenbaum, Bunker 2 was 56 feet long and 27 feet wide. Each of the four gas chamber rooms was 14 feet by 7 [feet] "CONTINUED
     
  17. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    Hello Grau. I'm glad to read from you again. I was worried that the Coronavirus caught you. Please keep care of yourself!

    It doesn't matter what the majority believes. Whether they believe in the numerous evidence presented by real historians or they believe in the lies of professional HC deniers doesn't change the course of the story.

    I don't doubt that. The Nazi punitive- and extermination system was very complex. Take a look at Auschwitz. It was a really big compound of many camps. Some camps held temporary prisoners as forced workers, whereas inmates of other camps (mostly Jews) were destined to immediate or delayed extermination.

    There are Auschwitz survivors who haven't heard of the Holocaust because they weren't affected themselves. But under no circumstances can you take them as evidence that the HC never happened.

    I don't think that this is a misnomer. For me "HC denier" is a correct term describing people who deliberately try to distort Holocaust history.
     
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  18. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thank you very much for your concern. No, the Coronavirus hasn't been a problem for me or anyone nearby.
    I hope that you, too avoid this strange, global Neo Plague that has caused so many problems for so many who are less fortunate.

    I am additionally grateful to you for demonstrating that people can disagree but yet do so without personal hostility. I have several friends with whom I disagree on political issues but don't let that interfere with our friendship. Life is too short and good friends are too dear to let anger and hate interfere with life's many blessings.

    I've already listed just a few the many physical, scientific and historical ways in which the holocaust story (aka standard holocaust narrative) cannot be true:

    - Neither Churchill, de Gaulle nor Eisenhower felt that what has only recently been named THE Holocaust was horrific enough to include in their extensive WW2 post war books

    - There was no mention of a systematic and industrial extermination plan or homicidal gas chambers in any of the intercepted German radio transmissions nor did the Germans have a secret code or communicate telepathically.

    - Unlike Stalin, Churchill & Eisenhower, there is no written order from Hitler for the destruction of any group of people. (1)

    - If the Nazis had been determined to wipe out all of Europe's Jews, there would not have been any Jewish members of the Nazi Party and Jewish soldiers would not have comprised 150,000 members of Hitler's orders.

    - The original and most credible 1946 Red Cross report makes no mention of homicidal gas chambers or a genocidal agenda.

    - Countless truthful Holocaust survivors make no mention of homicidal gas chambers or a genocidal agenda (2)

    - Thousands of freed camp inmates interviewed by both the Vatican and the Red Cross made no mention of homicidal gas chambers(3)

    - The fraudulent Holocaust Industry-Lobby has been caught in numerous outright deceptions such as altered photos, forged documents and other attempts to fool gullible individuals(4)

    - Countless phony "Holocaust survivors" have succeeded in deceiving millions of people with grotesque fictions about German sadism and mass murder(5)

    The list of good, solid reasons that are proof that the standard holocaust narrative is fraudulent is endless but, sadly, the influential, multi-billion dollar Holocaust Industry-Lobby and its complicit Western MSM has succeeded in deceiving millions of gullible & unquestioning people around the world.

    Re:
    I have repeatedly made it perfectly clear that I, like most of the rest of the world, do not claim that the Holocaust did not happen in that we do not deny that some Bolsheviks, Communists, the Roma, Jews, homosexuals and genuine criminal rapists, murderers and thieves were interred in work camps where some were executed, some died of natural causes, some were discharged some worked for the 3rd Reich & some simply served their sentences. Those are irrefutable facts and do not indicate "Holocaust denial".

    Re:
    All that I have done is state and support irrefutable facts concerning what has come to be known as THE Holocaust®.
    Would you please point out anything I have written that is not true.

    Among the reasons that the term "Holocaust denier" is a fraudulent misnomer is that the holocaust story changes over time as the lies become exposed.
    For example, early after WW2, anyone who claimed that the fake "human skin lampshades", "human fat soap" etc were phony would have been called a "Holocaust denier".
    Before the alleged number of casualties at Auschwitz was reduced from 4 million to 1.1 million, anyone claiming that only 1.1 million were killed would have been called a "Holocaust denier"

    The only real "Holocaust deniers" are the very few people who claim that no one was ever placed in a work camp.
    Additionally, the definition of "Holocaust denial" varies from person to person so it is inherently a meaningless pejorative.

    Briefly put, I feel that name calling of any kind is simply an empty and evasive ploy to avoid substantive discussion when the facts are not in your favor.

    Finally, I genuinely hope that you are in good health and remain in good health.
    Enjoy your weekend.


    (1) “To the present day a written order by Hitler regarding the destruction of the European Jewish community has not been found, and, in all probability, this order was never given.”

    - Walter Laqueur, Was niemand wissen wollte: Die Unterdruckung der Nachrichten uber Hitlers Endlösung (What Nobody Wanted to Know: The Suppression of News About Hitler’s “Final Solution”), (Berlin-Vienna, 1981), p.190


    (2). "Auschwitz Was NOT a 'Death Camp' - Holocaust Survivor Testimony"
    https://archive.org/details/AuschwitzWasNotAdeathCamp-HolocaustSurvivorTestimony

    EXCERPT "Investigations of physical evidence and original documentation, however, have cast doubts on the Holocaust narrative that has been formed. For example, areas claimed to be mass graves, have been found with modern investigative technology to contain no human remains. Testimonies of accused perpetrators show evidence of outright fabrication, or were obtained through torture. Many of the supposed eyewitnesses have provided stories riddled by inconsistencies, describe physically impossible events, or were even total frauds who were never actually in the camps." CONTINUED


    (3) “The Problems of Mass Gassing”
    http://truedemocracyparty.net/2012/05/was-there-really-a-judaic-holocaust/
    EXCERPT "The Vatican and Red Cross interviewed thousands of freed camp inmates at the end of the War about alleged gas chambers. The response was always the same, "The detainees themselves have not spoken of them" (Red Cross document No. 9925, June 1946)." CONTINUED


    (4) "Zionists Fake Holocaust Cremation Deaths Using 35 Year-Old Train Wreck Images"
    https://nodisinfo.com/zionists-holocaust-cremation-deaths-ohio-train-wreck-images/


    EXCERPT "So, it is that there is not only no evidence for it, but in fact, there is evidence fully against it, proving it to be a lie. Here is the proof of the fake, the star imagery of the dog and pony show, the supposed open-pit cremation of naked, dead Jews. There were no Jews there. This is a fake. The corpses were put in artificially. The image has nothing to do with the war or post-war period. It’s not even from Germany but rather from the United States"CONTINUED


    (5) "Could there be anything more twisted than these Holocaust fantasists? How more and more people are making up memoirs about witnessing Nazi crimes"
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...le-making-memoirs-witnessing-Nazi-crimes.html

    EXCERPT "Unfortunately, despite all these examples, publishers are still wilfully selling suspect memoirs based on the Holocaust and the war.

    No doubt there will be more books of this type. With publishers fighting it out to sell the latest tale of World War II derring-do, or Holocaust misery, it seems unlikely this is a genre that will die out.

    Anybody reading these books should stop and ask themselves whether what they hold in their hands is, in fact, true." CONTINUED
     
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  19. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    The Nazis indeed used code words to cover up their crimes. For example "Sonderbehandlung" (special treatment) stands for murder.

    And they also used encrypted telegrams to report their "successes" to Berlin.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Höfle_Telegram
     
  20. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think that we've been over this already.

    The Nazis already used code words through their Enigma code and there is no evidence to support the notion that there was a "code within a code".
    There were perhaps hundreds of thousands of messages from tens of thousands of people to tens of thousands of people who received only what was specifically written. How would the person receiving the already coded message know that it meant anymore than what is specifically says without a "code within a code" book?
    No such thing as a "code within a code" book that has ever been found so why make up meanings for words that are not expressed?

    Assuming that a word means any more than what it says is just biased holocaustians desperately grabbing at straws and making assumptions for which there is no historical evidence.
    It is far more likely that "special treatment" meant that the individual had special skills or abilities that would have made them more useful to the Germans in the work camps.
    For example, one holocaust survivor I knew received "special treatment" because she could speak 5 - 7 languages fluently and was especially useful as a translator on the Eastern Front. She received "special treatment" from the Allied and Axis armies and claimed that she was better treated by the Germans than anyone included the Allies.

    "Special treatment" could also have more likely have meant that the inmate was diabetic or had another special medical condition that needed special treatment.

    As you said, yourself, Auschwitz-Birkenau-Monowitz was a giant industrial complex and the Germans were desperate for skilled workers so it is most likely that "special treatment" means that an inmate would have been especially useful for his or her particular skills or abilities.

    Re:
    The exaggerated "Hoefle Telegram" is nothing more than a schedule of arrivals, recorded deaths and departures. There is absolutely nothing in it or any other intercepted German radio transmission to indicate an industrial scale genocide.(1)

    I was hoping that you would address the brief list of ways in which the standard holocaust narrative is fraudulent I mentioned and supported in my earlier post.
    Would you please do so?

    - Neither Churchill, de Gaulle nor Eisenhower felt that what has only recently been named THE Holocaust was horrific enough to include in their extensive WW2 post war books.

    - There was no mention of a systematic and industrial extermination plan or homicidal gas chambers in any of the intercepted German radio transmissions nor did the Germans have a secret code or communicate telepathically.

    - Unlike Stalin, Churchill & Eisenhower, there is no written order from Hitler for the destruction of any group of people.(2)

    - If the Nazis had been determined to wipe out all of Europe's Jews, there would not have been any Jewish members of the Nazi Party and Jewish soldiers would not have comprised 150,000 members of Hitler's orders.

    - The original and most credible 1946 Red Cross report makes no mention of homicidal gas chambers or a genocidal agenda.

    - Countless truthful Holocaust survivors make no mention of homicidal gas chambers or a genocidal agenda.(3)

    - Thousands of freed camp inmates interviewed by both the Vatican and the Red Cross made no mention of homicidal gas chambers.(4)

    - The fraudulent Holocaust Industry-Lobby has been caught in numerous outright deceptions such as altered photos, forged documents and other attempts to fool gullible individuals.(5)

    - Countless phony "Holocaust survivors" have succeeded in deceiving millions of people with grotesque fictions about German sadism and mass murder.(6)


    Thanks,



    (1). “THE HOLOCAUST NARRATIVE”
    https://archive.org/stream/BreakingTheSpell_48/BreakingTheSpell-Kollerstrom_djvu.txt

    EXCERPT “In 1941, British Intelligence analysts cracked the German “Enigma” code. This undermined the German war effort—but also threw new light on day-by-day events in the Nazi concentration camp system. Between January 1942 and January 1943, encrypted radio communications between those camps and the Berlin headquarters were intercepted and decrypted.

    Oddly enough, historians have largely ignored the information furnished in these intercepts relating to “arrivals,” “departures,” recorded deaths and other events at these camps.The only reasonable explanation is that the intercepted data contra-dicts, even refutes, the orthodox “Holocaust” narrative.

    The information does not expose a program of mass murder and racial genocide. Quite the opposite: it reveals that the Germans were determined, desperate even, to reduce the death rate in their work camps, which was caused by catastrophic typhus epidemics.”CONTINUED


    (2) “To the present day a written order by Hitler regarding the destruction of the European Jewish community has not been found, and, in all probability, this order was never given.”

    - Walter Laqueur, Was niemand wissen wollte: Die Unterdruckung der Nachrichten uber Hitlers Endlösung (What Nobody Wanted to Know: The Suppression of News About Hitler’s “Final Solution”), (Berlin-Vienna, 1981), p.190


    (3). "Auschwitz Was NOT a 'Death Camp' - Holocaust Survivor Testimony"
    https://archive.org/details/AuschwitzWasNotAdeathCamp-HolocaustSurvivorTestimony

    EXCERPT "Investigations of physical evidence and original documentation, however, have cast doubts on the Holocaust narrative that has been formed. For example, areas claimed to be mass graves, have been found with modern investigative technology to contain no human remains. Testimonies of accused perpetrators show evidence of outright fabrication, or were obtained through torture. Many of the supposed eyewitnesses have provided stories riddled by inconsistencies, describe physically impossible events, or were even total frauds who were never actually in the camps." CONTINUED


    (4) “The Problems of Mass Gassing”
    http://truedemocracyparty.net/2012/05/was-there-really-a-judaic-holocaust/
    EXCERPT "The Vatican and Red Cross interviewed thousands of freed camp inmates at the end of the War about alleged gas chambers. The response was always the same, "The detainees themselves have not spoken of them" (Red Cross document No. 9925, June 1946)." CONTINUED


    (5) "Zionists Fake Holocaust Cremation Deaths Using 35 Year-Old Train Wreck Images"
    https://nodisinfo.com/zionists-holocaust-cremation-deaths-ohio-train-wreck-images/


    EXCERPT "So, it is that there is not only no evidence for it, but in fact, there is evidence fully against it, proving it to be a lie. Here is the proof of the fake, the star imagery of the dog and pony show, the supposed open-pit cremation of naked, dead Jews. There were no Jews there. This is a fake. The corpses were put in artificially. The image has nothing to do with the war or post-war period. It’s not even from Germany but rather from the United States"CONTINUED


    (6) "Could there be anything more twisted than these Holocaust fantasists? How more and more people are making up memoirs about witnessing Nazi crimes"
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...le-making-memoirs-witnessing-Nazi-crimes.html

    EXCERPT "Unfortunately, despite all these examples, publishers are still wilfully selling suspect memoirs based on the Holocaust and the war.

    No doubt there will be more books of this type. With publishers fighting it out to sell the latest tale of World War II derring-do, or Holocaust misery, it seems unlikely this is a genre that will die out.

    Anybody reading these books should stop and ask themselves whether what they hold in their hands is, in fact, true." CONTINUED
     
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  21. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    Not every message was "Enigmated". They used clear text in correspondence between various offices and the killers outside at the scene. These documents should sound as harmless as possible for outsiders. So e.g. the term "mass murder" was never mentioned directly. The code word for this was "Sonderbehandlung".
    https://www.ushmm.org/collections/bibliography/nazi-language-and-terminology
     
  22. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The major US taxpayer funded Holocaust theme park (USHMM) is absolutely the last place to look for credible & objective information regarding WW2 and the holocaust because the global Holocaust Industry-Lobby must perpetuate its self serving myths to keep the money coming.

    The Holocaust Industry-Lobby's influence is so powerful that it managed to extract a piece of land worth at least $1 Trillion and extract permanent US taxpayer funding of well over $40 Million (1) per year just for this one grisly theme park that employs 421 people.

    What would those 421 people do for work if the truth about the Holocaust were to come out?

    At any rate, I've already given you an example of what "Sonderbehandlung" really means in the case of the woman who was useful to the Germans as a translator.
    Apparently, the only way that the holocaust lie can exist is to make up meanings for words that are not explicitly stated.


    (1) As of 2002, yearly US taxpayer funding for USHMM was $39 million+. I'm sure that 18 years later that it is much more.
     
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  23. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    What documents? I would like to examine how they connect to your alleged mass murder theory, please post copies for us.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
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  24. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    You have to, at least the J-W version we know is bullshit because we have the official records proving it was bullshit.

    The confessions below were not the result of J-Ws beating prisoners to a pulp, they were purely voluntary. You never get the truth wwhen you beat someone to 1/2 to death.

    Its totally impossible if not completely over the top loony to claim someone can be in the camp during the whole war and not notice millions of people disappearing. Who could be gullible and stupid enough to believe that?


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
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  25. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    The most famous document in which "special treatment" and similar camouflage terms were used is the Wannsee Protocol.
     

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