About the Holocaust

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by stan1990, Mar 11, 2019.

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Do you agree with the thoughts expressed in this thread?

Poll closed Apr 10, 2019.
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  1. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Well-Known Member

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  2. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It would seem that if you feel so strongly about what is possibly the world's most grotesque conspiracy theory you should be informed enough about it to explain why facts that expose it should be so heavily censored.

    After all, the Truth welcomes open debate and honest examination while a Lie can only survive under the darkness of repressive censorship laws.
     
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  3. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    "debate" assumes that there are two sides to an argument of more or less equal validity. Regarding the holocaust there is not. the evidence that the Nazis deliberately murdered roughly 6 million Jews and 5 million other people (aside from the depredations of the war) is so overwhelming that to put it on a plate next to what deniers trot out it is an insult.
     
  4. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In spite of what you've been led to believe by decades of residual Allied propaganda, the fraudulent Holocaust Industry and its complicit MSM, there is absolutely no evidence that Germany's National Socialists deliberately murdered roughly 11 million people.

    Piles of typhus ridden corpses, crematoria, confessions made under torture, Allied propaganda and hearsay are not evidence of a genocidal agenda for which thousands of innocent German POWs have been viciously lynched in Soviet style post War show trials(*)

    Unlike Stalin, Churchill and Eisenhower, there is not a single written order from Hitler for the extermination of anyone. (1)

    This is some of the real evidence that you haven't heard:
    The British cracked the German's Enigma code and were able to listen to all classified German radio transmissions.(2) Throughout all of those classified radio transmissions there was absolutely no mention of a genocidal agenda, homicidal gas chambers or other myths generated by the for-profit, world wide Holocaust Industry and the various Allied propaganda agencies.

    You are aware, I hope, that both sides used propaganda but only the Allied propaganda narrative exists today to perpetrate fallacies about German run homicidal gas chambers(3)

    The myth that about 6 million Jews were murdered is also simply a fraudulent product of Allied propaganda and the Holocaust Industry disinformation. However, it is completely debunked by the World Almanac which uses Jewish supplied statistics(4) that show that the world's Jewish population actually grew during the WW2 era.

    If the Nazis had been so thoroughly committed to destroying the Jewish community, how do you explain the fact that there were high ranking Jews in the Nazi Party(5) and about 150,000 Jews in Hitler's military(6)?
    Many of the Jews serving in Hitler's military rose to the highest ranks and received Germany's highest honors but we never hear of these Jews via MSM or the Holocaust Industry because it would destroy the holocaust myth for the fraud that it is.

    Since the holocaust legend is little more than a grossly overfunded conspiracy theory that is rejected by most of the world (7), I look forward to reading why you or anyone could believe unsupported myths that are neither physically nor mathematically possible.



    (*) "Chief US prosecutor Jackson is away conducting his high-grade lynching party in Nuremberg......I hate to see the pretence that he is running a court and proceeding according to common law. This is a little too sanctimonious a fraud to meet my old-fashioned ideas."

    - US Supreme Court Chief Justice Harlan Fiske Stone



    (1)“To the present day a written order by Hitler regarding the destruction of the European Jewish community has not been found, and, in all probability, this order was never given.”

    - Walter Laqueur, Was niemand wissen wollte: Die Unterdruckung der Nachrichten uber Hitlers Endlösung (What Nobody Wanted to Know: The Suppression of News About Hitler’s “Final Solution”), (Berlin-Vienna, 1981), p.190


    (2)“THE HOLOCAUST NARRATIVE”
    https://archive.org/stream/BreakingTheSpell_48/BreakingTheSpell-Kollerstrom_djvu.txt

    EXCERPT “In 1941, British Intelligence analysts cracked the German “Enigma” code. This undermined the German war effort—but also threw new light on day-by-day events in the Nazi concentration camp system. Between January 1942 and January 1943, encrypted radio communications between those camps and the Berlin headquarters were intercepted and decrypted.

    Oddly enough, historians have largely ignored the information furnished in these intercepts relating to “arrivals,” “departures,” recorded deaths and other events at these camps.The only reasonable explanation is that the intercepted data contra-dicts, even refutes, the orthodox “Holocaust” narrative.

    The information does not expose a program of mass murder and racial genocide. Quite the opposite: it reveals that the Germans were determined, desperate even, to reduce the death rate in their work camps, which was caused by catastrophic typhus epidemics.”CONTINUED


    (3)“Auschwitz: Myths and Facts”
    http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml

    EXCERPT “Allied Propaganda

    The Auschwitz gassing story is based in large part on the hearsay statements of former Jewish inmates who did not personally see any actual signs of extermination. Their beliefs are understandable, because rumors about gassings at Auschwitz were widespread. Allied planes dropped large numbers of leaflets, written in Polish and German, on Auschwitz and the surrounding areas which claimed that people were being gassed in the camp. The Auschwitz gassing story, which was an important part of the Allied wartime propaganda effort, was also broadcast to Europe by Allied radio stations. [15] CONTINUED

    15. Nuremberg document NI-11696. NMT "green series," Vol. 8, p. 606.



    (4) "Was there Really a Holocaust?"
    https://www.biblebelievers.org.au/wasthere.htm

    EXCERPT "The World Almanac for 1947 states that back in 1939 the world Jewish population was 15,688,259. The Almanac's figures were supplied by the American Jewish Committee. Next the Jewish-owned New York Times of February 22, 1948 stated the world Jewish population for that year amounted "to 15,600,000 to 18,700,000 in addition to the 600,000 to 700,000 living in Palestine." How could the Jewish population increase so rapidly over the war years if they had lost 6,000,000 people?"CONTINUED


    (5) "List of Nazis of non-Germanic descent"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazis_of_non-Germanic_descent

    EXCERPT "Notably, there were several high-ranking Nazis of partial Jewish descent."CONTINUED


    (6) “Hitler’s Jewish Army”
    http://counterpsyops.com/2013/02/14/...-hitlers-army/

    EXCERPT “Thousands of men of Jewish descent and hundreds of what the Nazis called ‘full Jews’ served in the German military with Adolf Hitler’s knowledge and approval.

    In approximately 20 cases, Jewish soldiers in the Nazi army were awarded(*)Germany’s highest military honor, the Knight’s Cross.

    Jews also served in the Nazi police and security forces as ghetto police(Ordnungdienst)(*)and concentration camp guards(*)(kapos).

    So what happens to the claim that Hitler sought to exterminate all Jews, when he allowed some of them to join in his struggle against Bolshevism and International finance capitalism?

    “If the Jews were permitted to serve in Hitler’s armed forces then there could not have been a Holocaust.”CONTINUED


    ”THE WORLD IS FULL OF HOLOCAUST DENIERS”
    https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...he-world-is-full-of-holocaust-deniers/370870/

    EXCERPT “Only 54 percent of the world's population has heard of the Holocaust.

    This is the most staggering statistic in a new survey by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) of more than 53,000 people in over 100 countries, conducted by First International Resources.

    Only a third of the world's population believe the genocide has been accurately described in historical accounts.

    Some said they thought the number of people who died has been exaggerated; others said they believe it's a myth.

    Thirty percent of respondents said it's probably true that "Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust."

    - Hindus were most likely to believe that the number of Holocaust deaths has been exaggerated.

    - people younger than 65 were much more likely to say they believe that facts about the Holocaust have been distorted”CONTINUED
     
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  5. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    Great!
    I have asked literally thousand of different posters over the years to post 'physical' material evidence and all they have is alleged witnesses that the physical evidence proves to be bold faced liars.

    You are correct however the J-W as victim holocaust has never been a debate, since your side of the fence has nothing and our side has everything!

    Please cite your scientific physical evidence that refutes our scientific physical evidence. Better yet cite ANY physical evidence what so ever your claim is anything more than your imagination
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
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  6. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    SLANDER, EVASION AND DECEPTION

    Response to @Dayton3 Post # 1680


    I have yet to attempt to discuss what has come to be known as THE Holocaust® without watching holocaustians(*) demonstrate at least one of three rhetorical devices to avoid substantive debate: slander, evasion and deception.

    In spite of the fact that I wrote a civil and respectful comment with supported facts, the best you could do was what most holocaustians do when their most heartfelt fairy tale is debunked: resort to puerile slander, evade simple questions and post deceptive assertions.

    1. The global population may have grown during the 20th century but the world's already small Jewish population grew by about 4 million from 1939 to 1947. How could it have grown that much over 8 years if 6 million were murdered?

    2. Far brighter legal minds clearly assert that the Nuremberg "trials" were, indeed, no more than a lynching. Even Eisenhower's more ethical brother called the Nuremberg "trials" a "black page in the history of the world..."(1). In one of these "trials" 137 out of 139 German POWs had their testicles crushed beyond repair(2). This was considered SOP.

    3. There are written orders for the mass killing of German civilians and German POWs from Eisenhower, Churchill and Stalin but not Hitler.
    For example:

    “I do not want suggestions as to how we can disable the economy and the machinery of war, what I want are suggestions as to how we can roast the German refugees on their escape from Breslau.” Winston Churchill

    You skipped #4 and #5 for some reason

    6. Where is your evidence that the Nazis deliberately murdered Romany (Gypsies), homosexuals. I've been able to support my assertions, why can't you?

    7. The Germans were unable to care for camp internees or Soviet POWs because the Allies destroyed German infrastructure. Additionally, the Soviets murdered countless German POWs. You should read up on Stalin's Order No. 227 and No. 270 in which he authorizes anyone to kill Soviet soldiers who surrender. The Soviets also refused to abide by the Geneva convention

    8. About 15,000 Internees at Bergen Belsen died of typhus after liberation. Should the British be responsible for their deaths?

    9. "When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser" Socrates



    (1) "President Eisenhower’s Brother, An Attorney, Condemned The Nuremberg & Eichmann Trials"
    http://www.renegadetribune.com/president-eisenhowers-brother-attorney-condemned-nuremberg-eichmann-trials/

    QUOTE:

    "I think the Nuremberg trials are a black page in the history of the world…I discussed the legality of these trials with some of the lawyers and some of the judges who participated therein. They did not attempt to justify their action on any legal ground, but rested their position on the fact that in their opinion, the parties convicted were guilty…"

    Edgar N. Eisenhower, American attorney: Brother of President Dwight D. Eisenhower


    (2)CONFESSIONS' UNDER TORTURE
    https://www.ihr.org/books/harwood/dsmrd03.html

    EXCERPT "The American Judge Edward L. van Roden, one of the three members of the Simpson Army Commission which was subsequently appointed to investigate the methods of justice at the Dachau trials, revealed the methods by which these admissions were secured in the Washington Daily News, January 9th, 1949. His account also appeared in the British newspaper, the Sunday Pictorial, January 23rd, 1949. The methods he described were: "Posturing as priests to hear confessions and give absolution; torture with burning matches driven under the prisoners finger-nails; knocking out of teeth and breaking jaws; solitary confinement and near starvation rations." Van Roden explained: "The statements which were admitted as evidence were obtained from men who had first been kept in solitary confinement for three, four and five months ... The investigators would put a black hood over the accused's head and then punch him in the face with brass knuckles, kick him and beat him with rubber hoses ... All but two of the Germans, in the 139 cases we investigated, had been kicked in the testicles beyond repair. This was standard operating procedure with our American investigators." CONTINUED
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
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  7. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    That's right. I never said that.

    HC deniers usually try to deny the holocaust in paraphrase, rarely directly.
    Maybe because they want to keep a way open to say "Hi, I'm not an HC denier and I never was!"

    1. You may believe that you're telling the truth, but you're wrong.
    2. I'm an atheist, but I think that Christians should have compassion for the many innocent people who were murdered by Hitler's henchmen.
    3. I don't think you're primarily a Jew hater, but more an apologist of the Nazi regime.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
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  8. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    It was an alternative "Christianity" created by the Nazis, in short: total bu**sh**
     
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  9. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Re:
    That still doesn't change the fact that you cannot find any place in which I have denied that the recently named Holocaust happened.

    I simply don't believe the fraudulent embellishments promulgated by Allied propagandists and the global Holocaust Industry such as human skin pocketbooks, "6 million Jews murdered", human fat soap, homicidal gas chambers, "Conveyor Belts of death" (1), mass human "vaporizers" (2) & other fictions used to demonize & murder innocent Germans.

    Re:
    1. Please show even one instance in which you have proven me wrong. Meanwhile, there are numerous instances in which I've proven you to be wrong as recently as Eisenhower's racist hatred of the Germans (Post # 1656)

    2. I don't go to church but I try to act as a true Christian would and feel compassion for ALL innocent people. For example, I have just as much compassion for the innocent Germans who were burned alive as I do for the fewer people who died of typhus in German run work camps.

    3. To suggest that I am in any way a "Jew hater" is an insult to me. Both I and my family have enjoyed working with and enjoyed the company of Jews for generations. This year, I have spent countless days helping a Jewish friend who would have lost his job without my specialized knowledge and assistance. I may be many things but I am in no way a "Jew hater".
    Attempting to look at WW2 history objectively and independently does not make one an apologist for the Nazi Regime. It simply means that I was fortunate enough to avoid early age brainwashing and am willing to do the work to see both sides of the story. If anything, I am sympathetic to the many innocent, decent & dutiful Germans who have been so viciously slandered, robbed, starved & exploited through most of the 20th century.





    (1) "Auschwitz Electrical Conveyor belt of Death"
    https://disjecta.wordpress.com/2018/01/26/auschwitz-electrical-conveyor-belt-of-death/

    EXCERPT "It’s a little known fact that running alongside the scientifically implausible gas chambers at Auschwitz ran the electrified conveyor belts of death. These industrialised slaughter belts, we can assume took the passive cargo directly from the “cattle cars” and electrocuted the hapless victims without struggle then disposed of the evidence in Nazi furnaces. One can only guess at the “special devices” for killing children. Somehow visions of Willy Wonka’s Chocolate/extermination factory spring to mind."CONTINUED


    (2). "Auschwitz: Myths and Facts"
    http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml

    EXCERPT "At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief US prosecutor Robert Jackson charged that the Germans had used a "newly invented" device to instantaneously "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no trace left of them." [8] No reputable historian now accepts either of these fanciful tales."CONTINUED
     
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  10. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    Are you kidding? You repeatedly said the Holocaust is a fraud.

    I believe your assertions once again, that you're not a Jew-hater nor Nazi.
    But why you behave like a Jew-hater and Nazi? That's fu**ing crazy, bro!
     
  11. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've never said that what is commonly called the holocaust didn't happen in that some Communists, Gypsies (the Roma), Jews, homosexuals, common criminals, Bolsheviks etc were arrested and put in work camps. I say "some" because many Jews were either high ranking members of the Nazi Party while 150,000 Jews served in Hitler's military. Also, I've only stated that the exaggerated casualty numbers and fictitious embellishments like human skin pocketbooks, homicidal gas chambers, human fat soap, "6 million Jews murdered, "Conveyor Belts of Death" etc are fraudulent creations of the equally fraudulent Holocaust Industry-Lobby(1), (2)

    Re:
    Thank you, I certainly don't hate Jews or any other ethnic / religious group nor do I hold any pro Nazi sentiment. I only realize that the Allies, too, used propaganda and that much of that propaganda has been repeated enough so that it is commonly confused with fact such as myths about homicidal gas chambers(3).
    Additionally, if the Holocaust Industry is corrupt enough to cheat Holocaust survivors & defraud the post war German government by falsifying documents, it is certainly corrupt enough to deceive the general public in the "marketing" of its "product".

    Unless someone has been hopelessly brainwashed with Holocaust myths and residual Allied propaganda, I don't see how attempting to look at WW2 history objectively and with a critical eye is either "crazy" or behaving like a "Jew hater" and/or "Nazi".
    I have simply been posting facts that show that the standard holocaust narrative is not only false but also rejected by most of the world(4).
    Concerning the ADL poll(4), I suspect that even more people reject the fraudulent holocaust narrative but were afraid to express their true sentiments because to the draconian Holocaust denial laws in many democracies.

    Thanks and enjoy your weekend.




    (1) "HOLOCAUST CLAIMS CONFERENCE FRAUD LIKELY ‘MUCH HIGHER’ THAN $57 MILLION"
    http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Holoc...aud-likely-much-higher-than-57-million-408298

    EXCERPT "Writing to the Claims Conference’s board last week, recently terminated ombudsman Shmuel Hollander asserted that, while reports had said organizational insiders had siphoned off $57 million in German taxpayer funds meant for survivors, “the final sum is in all probability much higher.”CONTINUED


    (2) "17 CHARGED IN $42 MILLION HOLOCAUST FRAUD CASE"
    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40093058/...ed-million-holocaust-fraud-case/#.XU62pSMwi_U

    EXCERPT "Federal prosecutors said Tuesday they have broken up a long-running scam in which people falsely claimed to be victims of the Nazi persecution so they could get money out of a fund that pays Holocaust reparations."CONTINUED


    (3) “Auschwitz: Myths and Facts”
    http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml

    EXCERPT “Allied Propaganda

    The Auschwitz gassing story is based in large part on the hearsay statements of former Jewish inmates who did not personally see any actual signs of extermination. Their beliefs are understandable, because rumors about gassings at Auschwitz were widespread. Allied planes dropped large numbers of leaflets, written in Polish and German, on Auschwitz and the surrounding areas which claimed that people were being gassed in the camp. The Auschwitz gassing story, which was an important part of the Allied wartime propaganda effort, was also broadcast to Europe by Allied radio stations. [15] CONTINUED

    15. Nuremberg document NI-11696. NMT "green series," Vol. 8, p. 606.


    (4) ”THE WORLD IS FULL OF HOLOCAUST DENIERS”
    https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...he-world-is-full-of-holocaust-deniers/370870/

    EXCERPT “Only 54 percent of the world's population has heard of the Holocaust.


    This is the most staggering statistic in a new survey by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) of more than 53,000 people in over 100 countries, conducted by First International Resources.

    Only a third of the world's population believe the genocide has been accurately described in historical accounts.

    Some said they thought the number of people who died has been exaggerated; others said they believe it's a myth.

    Thirty percent of respondents said it's probably true that "Jews still talk too much about what happened to them in the Holocaust."

    - Hindus were most likely to believe that the number of Holocaust deaths has been exaggerated.

    - people younger than 65 were much more likely to say they believe that facts about the Holocaust have been distorted”CONTINUED
     
  12. Death

    Death Active Member

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    I highlighted the key words above because what they show is you engage in holocaust trivialization.

    First off, commemorating the holocaust has never by any Jew or survivor of the holocaust been used to suggest their deaths are to be held to a moral double standard of superiority-in fact only you do because you argue that any mass murder should be considered the same.

    So the question becomes why do you want the term "holocaust" used every time there is a massacre of anyone? Why? It is simple-you don't want the unique qualities of the holocaust differentiated from the other unique components of other massacres-you want no comparisons-you want one generic label. You claim its done to respect them all. How does giving them all a one size fits all generic label do that? In fact it makes it easier to forget them and what caused them.

    Next Ukrainians call their forced starvation by Stalin the the holodomor the same reason we Jews refer to te genocide of the Jews in WW2 as the holocaust. They are NOT the same. When we study them, we show respect for each by taking the time to understand their differences and their names.

    When we study genocides we don't compare their number's like its some football contest-we look at each uniquely honouring the dead of all such peoples and what we can learn from each one by taking the time to differentiate them so as to prevent them from happening again. When we Jews present the holocaust we speak of righteous gentiles who died trying to save us and we speak of the Jehova's Witnesses, 7th day Adventists, socialists, mentally disabled, Romas, communists, socialists, righteous gentiles and gays who died with us. Its part of our pain and we share it with them. For you to infer we use a double standard is utterly false.

    Next there were many massacres in the Ukraine, each unique and yes some with common denominators. You even know what they were and care or is your agenda to sweep them all in one meaningless generic label with the holocaust to make it easier to ignore them all...because if you really cared about them, you wouldn't label them all as just one subject matter. Go on knock yourself out here is a partial list of many of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Ukraine.

    Next the Armenian genocide has a name. Its people refer to it as "Yeghern" and "Medz Yeghern" or "Abrilian Yeghern". Its peoples' suffering is unique and yes they have a unique name for their tragedy and they speak of the holocaust as I do their Yeghern. We don't compare. We don't engage in double standards. We people descended from holocaust survivors and many more genocides and massacres, do not compare our blood. We don't enter into pissing contests as to whose murders caused them more pain. We respect each other's pain with mutual respect and when we honour the dead we don't compare theirpain.

    Please show me one Jew who has said his death is more important than the death of anyone else when they commemorate the holocaust. Bullcrap. We do the exact opposite. In fact when we teach the holocaust we openly discuss other genocides and when we explain the uniqueness of the holocaust we do not do so putting down the genocides of anyone else-you do and people like you who have an agenda to try water down the term holocaust and all mass death incidents precisely so you do NOT have to discuss the specific characteristics of the holocaust or any other massacre.

    In fact the exercise you engage in trying to use the holocaust for many different is calle Holocaust (disambiguation) and it trivializes the holocaust and is best explained as follows:

    "Holocaust trivialization is one among various categories of Holocaust distortion. It is a tool for some ideologically or politically motivated activists to metaphorically compare phenomena they oppose to the industrial-scale destruction of the Jews in World War II by Germans, Austrians, and their allies. Examples include environmental problems, abortion, the slaughter of animals, the use of tobacco and human rights abuses."1
    1-https://jcpa.org/article/holocaust-trivialization/

    The key to your agenda in doing this is easily explained. When you try assign the term holocaust to all kinds of events and murders and evils as we can see from your initial thread you deliberately ignore and pretend there are no crucial criminal components of the Holocaust that exist let alone can be and should be compared to the components of other massacres. You simply argue that if such crucial components of the holocaust are acknowledged that comparison must create a double standard which is not only illogical but dishonest because in fact when we acknowledge the crucial components we do NOT claim they should given a higher moral standard. The fact we point out the uniqueness of its components does not mean it is an argument of moral superiority as you throw out with zero proof.

    In fact your repeat use of the word holocaust speaks for itself-its an attempt to deny the unique components of the holocaust and argue all massacres are the same. They are not. Each one has an elaborate set of cause and effect origins, transmissions and after results.

    In fact trivializing the use of the world holocaust is done not just by people with white supremacist agendas but by progressives using it to describe what is happening to the environment, wild-life and its used by religious persons referring to abortion as a holocaust, so you are in good company.

    The fact we have people liking what you said shows they too like you want to trivialize specific historic events and lump them all in one generic category.

    I argue we should not make it easier on any of you to forget any or all of them by watering them all down into a trivialized term..
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2020
  13. Death

    Death Active Member

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    This board has been frequented by holocaust deniers from the get go.

    The tactic of demanding people prove the holocaust evidence that exists is true simply means they deny it. They don't want your proof-they want the platform to deny the holocaust.
     
  14. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    Every major genocide has its own name and the least important criterion is the body count. Holocaust deniers often try to play down the HC by comparing it to genocides in which more people have died. But the Holocaust was an incomparable break in civilization. HC deniers want this to be ignored. :(
     
  15. cirdellin

    cirdellin Newly Registered

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    Sadly, the Nazi experience was not hardly as singular an event as it is too often taught.

    I’m all for the insistence of remembering the atrocities of the Nazis but I don’t think this memory is in danger of being extinguished and I think it has been over-learned relative to under learned atrocities. Stalin and Mao killed more and this is barely spoken about as are the other mass killings in the lists below.

    https://about-history.com/list-of-dictatorships-by-death-toll-the-top-10-biggest-killers-in-history/

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/mo...itler-Stalin-The-murderous-regimes-world.html
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
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  16. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hi, Newcomer! You have a beautiful avatar... reminds me of my time in Lapland. :)

    Well, you are probably right by saying Stalin and Mao were worst killers than THE Nazis. If you asked me, I would say the Nazis are being unjustly vilified, because they lost the war and therefore are defenseless. To this day they are being hunted and held responsible for mass killings, even if they had nothing to do with it.

    I dared to google and found out that some of the greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish!
    In the midst of the Bolshevik revolution and civil war, Lenin signed a decree calling for the establishment of The All-Russian Extraordinary Commission for Combating Counter-Revolution and Sabotage, also known as Cheka.

    “We cannot know with certainty the number of deaths Cheka was responsible for in its various manifestations, but the number is surely at least 20 million, including victims of the forced collectivization, the hunger, large purges, expulsions, banishments, executions, and mass deaths at Gulags. “Whole population strata were eliminated.

    An Israeli student finishes high school without ever hearing the name Genrikh Yagoda, the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, the GPU’s deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD.

    Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin’s collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people.

    Many Jews sold their soul to the devil of the Communist revolution and have blood on their hands for eternity. We’ll mention just one more: Leonid Reichman, head of the NKVD’s special department and the organization’s chief interrogator, who was a particularly cruel sadist.

    Read full article here:

    https://davidduke.com/the-greatest-mass-murderers-of-all-time-were-jews-says-jewish-columnist/

    Could it be possible that the Jews purposely embellish Germany's crime in order to hide their own? What do you think?
     
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  17. cirdellin

    cirdellin Newly Registered

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    I need to research this as it is totally unfamiliar to me. As were some of the ten atrocities I linked.

    I agree with you though that the Nazis while awful are carrying the full evil of the last 500 years and the German people deserve better than this as only 15 percent maximum joined that party in spite of enormous reason and pressure to do so.
     
  18. pitbull

    pitbull Well-Known Member

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    Even if that's true, it doesn't mean that the majority of Jews are bad people. You have succumbed to a simple fallacy. A single common property, e.g. "same ethnicity", is never a sufficient reason for the (mis)behavior of one member of that group.

    Let me explain this to you with a simple example:
    Here in Europe, an overwhelming amount of prison inmates are cigarette smokers. With this in mind, one could think that cigarette smoking turned them into criminals. But such a conclusion is obviously wrong, as wrong as believing Jews to be murderous because they're Jews.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
  19. Death

    Death Active Member

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    This thread is a sham. It provides the opportunity to:
    1-deny and trivialize the holocaust posing both exercises as an intellectual discussion
    2-make deliberately inciteful hateful comments about Jews
    3-comparing genocides under the assumption when any or each of them is remembered it necessarily is done in a manner to diminish the significance of the other genocides or to suggest certain genocides "are better".

    The people on this thread denying the holocaust are the first people to deny they deny the holocaust or the 3 above exercises. The posters and thread participants with neo Nazi and anti-semitic agendas and who regularly come on this forum to try incite and recruit are all well known. They fool no one. The majority of us ignore you and yes we know and ignore some of you who play along fueling the thread pretending you are asking questions and being educated by the holocaust deniers. Your techniques are lame, over-used, and fool no one.

    Part of me says if we do not challenge such people our silence condones it. However what I also have learned as have many others that responding, often our responses do nothing more than fuel and provide opportunity for such people to prop and puff their role and play innocent victim simply engaging in intellectual discourse for questioning the holocaust.

    So my choice is to ignore the holocaust deniers who start and fan the thread and address the posters other than the ones who started or support the thread's pretense of holocaust denial and say to you- know what it is and let it be a reminder why there is no such thing as "over-educating" not when you see such demonstrations of wilful ignorance and people attempting to revise history because they have agendas to once again spread the ideologies that led to these genocides in the first place.

    Let them serve as a reminder how much more work is to be done understand to explain to new generations the horrors of the past so they are not repeated. Let it be a lesson of just how willfully ignorant people want to be and how they want you to share with them the ignorance.

    I say to you, if the people who started this thread cared about any inhumanity the would not pose a thread using the pretext one genocide is pitted against others when we remember them or even attempt to suggest it. Let them show one example where a person who remembers the holocaust or any other genocide has stated to you or me, only remember them and no one else.

    Let one person who claims teaching this is over-done explain how teaching this can be overdone when most people of the next generations do not read or care about history let alone know about holocaust or any other genocide. Let them explain what form of measurement they used to determine how its been overdone.

    They won't. Such threads are limited by holocaust deniers to their subjective feelings and zero objective analysis or rational discourse. Its about feeling entitled to ignore history and be deliberately ignorant of it pretending they actually understand it and need more education.

    I ask which educated person says he knows too much? Since when is enlightenment and education something an educated, open-minded person says ends when they "feel" like it?

    No rational human would compare genocides and suggest people who remember the dead do so for negative reasons or that history "over-does" history by providing full details of the holocaust and other genocides.

    It is precisely because some people come on this thread with subjective opinions that they "feel" the holocaust is over-done we teach it.

    It means such people are not "over-done" they are in fact the next generation of uneducated, two to three generations removed from this genocide, living in a sheltered world they take for granted, wishing you to be myopic like them and look for excuses to make it easier for them and you to close your mind to anything that doesn't suit you,

    What person of any intelligence as this thread asks for you to determine that death is generic and death requires no significant thought to each death. Its the sign of laziness, affluence, entitlement, a generation only interested in its own, short sighted needs of the moment.

    All genocides must be taught and there is no such thing in history as over-educating. No one forces anyone to study history. What a bull sheeyat thing to say.

    How can someone be over-educated on a topic if they choose to be ignorant of it which is anyone's choice? It is like this thread, illogical, impaired rationalization for being ignorant.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
  20. cirdellin

    cirdellin Newly Registered

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    No student of history is denying the facts of the Holocaust.
    Clearly it happened and six of the 14 million people killed in Nazi concentration camps were Jewish making them the largest single demographic.
    However, the lesson that history has chosen to take from this is that political mass murder must be taken more seriously if it is racially driven.
    Stalin killed more Russians than Hitler did in the aggregate in German held territory.
    Mao killed more Chinese.
    The Japanese in Nanking.
    Pol pot killed more proportionately than probably any leader anywhere and these were Cambodians.
    Idi Amin, Ugandans.
    Hutus and Tutsis.
    And these are just the modern atrocities and just a partial list.
    The lesson to be learned is to stop the aggregation of power that can allow this to happen. Racial or not!
    Ask any high school student about Hitler and they will immediately tell you about the evil. Ask any high school student about Stalin or Mao or the others and you will get a blank stare. They simply are not taught this!
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020 at 10:23 AM
  21. Death

    Death Active Member

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    Of course many do including you in your response to me by trying to deny the holocaust's very reason was caused by a "racial" element and by trying to reduce it's relevance and meaning to the total number killed.

    To start with what makes a genocide relevant is not the number killed as you have reduced genocides to. Historians do not reduce studying genocides to the total no. killed to define their merit or meaning.

    Secondly, In the specific case of the holocaust for you to contend its attempt to wipe out Jews because they were Jews, i.e., it was not based on race as you have, is ridiculous if not absurd.

    You are actually an example of someone who wants to rewrite the history of the holocaust to omit it was a genocide of Jews and turn it into just another genocide, then reduce ALL genocides as having unique characteristics by reducing them all to being compared by the total no. of dead. That is an insult to all genocides and it is an excuse to avoid learning about each and every one.

    When the holocaust is taught its specific connection to the genocide of Jews because it can not be understood if it is not. When we learn about the holocaust no one argues or states especially holocaust survivors or their relatives or educators, that it is more important than other genocides-you do that by turning its dead into competition with the dead of other genocides.

    In fact when the holocaust is presented its taught as a specific example of an ethic genocide and for you to say it was not based on Jews being a targeted group is ridciulous. Nazism specifically defined Jews as a RACE and then said that race had to be wiped off the planet. No other genocide to date has said that.

    When Armenians, Rwanda, innocent civilians of Cambodia or China were wiped out in Rwanda it was based on identified ethnic group in Cambodia and China, perceived political opinion. They must be studied uniquely to understand them. Understanding the rational use to justify the mass killings is the very way to understand them, period.There is a very large difference and significance to those differences.

    You advance an argument to deny the connection to the specific genocide of Jews in the holocaust and trivialize it, then you trivialize the other genocides or mass murders by comparing them like a pissing contest reducing them to volume of death,

    Emil Fackenheim wrote a book and there are a plethora of articles that explain the unique characteristics of the holocaust. The fact you do not want to take the time to read about the holocaust and learn this is your deliberate and wilful choice of ignorance. So is not taking the time to understand the uniqueness of the Armenian genocide, the genocides in Rwanda, Sudan, the mass exterminations in Cambodia or China. You also clearly do not understand how the Ukrainian holodomor has more characteristics in common with the potato famine in Ireland. Until you take the time to actually learn historic evens as unique and stop trying to make it easier for you to reduce them to simplistic black and white numbers you will not get it.

    You response is a call to falsely and inaccurately mislabel and misrepresent all genocides. You rationalize being close minded and ignorant.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020 at 12:28 PM
  22. cirdellin

    cirdellin Newly Registered

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    I can assure you that the millions killed in Gulags or re-education camps in China or the killing fields in Cambodia took no comfort in the fact that their murders were not racially motivated.

    They wanted to live and their collective murdered lives mattered and if not to you then to humanity and the spirit of life itself.

    But good try!
     
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  23. Death

    Death Active Member

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    Your response makes no sense. I never argued the exterminations or mass murders in China or Cambodia were based on ethnicity or race nor did I ever question the deaths in these genocides.

    I stated the holocaust and others such as the genocides in Sudan, Rwanda, Burundi, Armenia, are different than those in China and Cambodia and until you can understand the unique characteristics of each genocide you will not understand them.

    You clearly didnn't take the time to read...which does not surprise me and explains why you need to justify simplistic false representations of complex matters. You can't be bothered to give what you talk about much thought.

    Get back to me when you can figure out what I said and do not falsely assume what I think about ANY genocide to deflect from what you said and do not know how to defend.

    If you think the holocaust was not about singling out Jews go on finish your holocaust trivialization argument that we should not connect the holocaust to Jews when studying it. Explain why. You won't. To do that you have to deny the holocaust the very think you claim you are not doing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020 at 12:41 PM
  24. Death

    Death Active Member

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    deleted
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020 at 12:50 PM
  25. Death

    Death Active Member

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    The fact the holocaust was put in the Middle East thread is interesting. It has nothing to do with the Middle East. The reason it was allowed in the Middle East thread is a classic example of how holocaust denial and trivialization is used to challenge the State of Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state.

    The person who started this argument ironically is a Muslim who supports Muslim theocracies and Muslim states and has not written England should NOT be an Anglican State or the Vatican City should not be a Roman Catholic state or any countries should not be a Muslim state or identify with Hinduism or Buddhism.

    The person who started this thread will never suggest Muslim states discriminate against non Muslims and define non Muslims as dhimmi, i.e, inferior persons NOT allowed to own land, testify in court, own a business. He won't discuss how a non Muslim is in fact discriminated in a Muslim country and this is the very reason Jews sought their own country to escape such discrimination. No this individual whose agenda is to deny the right of Jews to have their own state, has an agenda to claim the holocaust was exploited by Jews to justify a Jewish state. The fact that Jews were inferiors in Muslim countries, or had nowhere to live in Europe after WW2 he skips over. The role of Muslims during WW2 assisting Hitler wipe out Jews, he won't discuss.

    The historic and constant aboriginal rights Jews have to the land they settled in he won't discuss. In his world a Muslim can have a state anywhere they want, but a Jew can not and if a Jew doesn't agree to be a second class citizen in a Muslim state you have wars to drive them into the sea.

    So why pretend this is an intellectual discourse on the holocaust which of course then some do using the anti-Israel existence to then morph the thread into a holocaust denial thread.

    We've seen it time and time again on this forum. An assortment of anti-Israel Muslim extremists and neo-Nazi white supremacists getting together to discuss the holocaust under the Middle East thread and ironically never raising any Middle East political issue.

    I call it out for what it is, repetitive transparent anti-semitic rants couched as intellectual discourse.

    Suggesting the holocaust was exploited by Jews just by itself is anti-semitic. Linking it as an illegitimate reason for Jews to want sufferage from discrimination, is another anti-semitic concept. Denying the holocaust singled out Jews for death is another. These points are anti-semitic in that they falsely assign misrepresentations to incite hatred and resentment of ALL Jews no just Israelis. If it was limited to Israelis I suppose we could call it anti-Israeli or as they like to disguise it as, anti-Zionist. Its not. Its about denying the history of Jews and trying to put them in their place-one where they are not allowed the same rights as non Jews. The only exploitation of the holocaust is done by the anti-Israelis and holocaust deniers who try misappropriate the memories of the dead of many genocides not just Jews to justify their own political agendas.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020 at 1:10 PM
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