Ahmaud Arbery case: Jury finds McMichaels, Bryan guilty on felony murder charges

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Bob Newhart, Nov 24, 2021.

  1. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's not fully true. Maybe it might be more accurate to say "they suspected him of being a burglary suspect". There had been other burglaries in that neighborhood in the prior weeks.

    Again, that's not fully true.
    How can you say they had "absolutely no reason to do what they did", if police would have had some reason to do what they did in that situation?
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2021
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  2. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I normally very much respect you but that seems like a stupid argument.
    Credibility in court would only be damaged if they lied about facts, not opinions and openly subjective interpretations of facts.
    If I say "I believed A at the time because of B", just because you disagree with that logic doesn't mean you should assume I'm a lier and you can't believe any facts I claim, so long as B is true.

    Just pointing out basic logic here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2021
  3. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The hammer seems to have been dropped on the ground. So it would not have been "on his person".

    That is not the point. The presence of a hammer would indicate he was probably not "just jogging", and if that's the case the question arrives what was he doing with it?
    A hammer is often used by burglars to break in through windows, or it might have been picked up (stolen) from the construction site.

    It's obviously not "proof" of anything, but it does add suspicion.

    That still does not mean the hammer could not have been taken. I doubt anyone was keeping track of all of the tools left at the construction site.
    The hammer probably would have belonged to the construction crew, not Larry English.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2021
  4. omni

    omni Newly Registered

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    So at some point you are going to have to accept they aren't cops so aren't allowed to act like cops.

    Did you know they didn't even call the cops until 30 seconds before they shot him? They wanted to be the police first and ask questions later.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2021
  5. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I get what you are saying.
    But my point is what they did can't be all that bad, or at least can't be exactly like a regular form of murder, if cops would have done the same thing in those circumstances.

    You are correct, that doesn't play very well in their favor.

    But again, let me point out that police only know that fact because the now-defendants told them.

    Do you believe in convicting someone and giving them the full wraith of the law, when the necessary evidence to convict those people only comes from what those same people told police in a report?
    Doing things that way is going to incentivize people to just lie in these sort of situations.
    For that reason I think the punishment should be far less than if it had been an ordinary type of murder.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2021
  6. omni

    omni Newly Registered

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    Well a cop would have said they were being detained or showed a badge, which the McMichaels did neither.

    And we know the timeline because there were eye witness who called 911 at the beginning.

    If they wanted a lighter sentence, they should have pled guilty and asked for a plea deal.

    And if they get off with a slap on the wrist, wouldn't that incentivize wannabe cops to start arresting people because they know the charges will be light?
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2021
  7. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    That is irrelevant. If you had Peace Officer Training certification, you'd know that all items are inventoried whether they're physically on someone or not.

    The fact that you cannot cite a primary source suggests you're getting your incorrect and inflammatory info from a White Supremacist website.

    You have failed or refused to cite a primary source for your claim.

    There was no crime.

    The house was not burglarized.

    A burglary can only occur during hours of darkness and in a dwelling place.

    It was daylight, and a home under construction is not a dwelling place. You need only read any State statute or case law to know that.

    The owner of the home-under-construction testified that no thefts had taken place on his property and that nothing was vandalized or damaged.

    Again, no crime had been committed.

    The police testified that there had been no reported burglaries or house-breakings (which occur during daylight hours) in the area in the prior months.

    Again, no crime had been committed.

    The Three Stooges could not possibly have known that Arbery had a hammer since none of them are the Amazing Kreskin.

    You have failed to cite a primary source to prove that Arbery had a hammer.

    Travis McMichales was not aware of any hammer. In his sworn testimony, he never mentions a hammer.

    The stink of desperation is overwhelming.

    There was no reason for the Three Stooges to believe that any crime had been committed. They had no reason to harass Arbery, which is what they did.
     
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  8. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    Only for someone not living in Reality®.

    It is the jury's duty to weigh the credibility of all evidence presented in a trial whether that evidence is testimonial evidence (meaning witnesses, expert witnesses and others), documentary evidence (meaning documents, papers, reports, affidavits etc), or physical evidence (meaning DNA, hair, fiber, fingerprints, toxicology, medical tests etc) for both criminal and civil trials.

    Any testimony by a witness that the jury deems not credible is sufficient for a jury to categorically dismiss/reject that testimony in whole or in part in favor of the evidence presented by the State or the plaintiff, or if they are witnesses for the State/plaintiff, to reject it in whole or in part in favor of the defendant.

    That's how it works.

    Notwithstanding the "CSI Effect" (see Casey Anthony e.g.), juries are a lot better than in the past. I attribute that in part to Generational effects. As far as the Lost Generation, GI Generation and Silent Generation were concerned, cops could never lie. The Boomers, Tweeners and Generation X know better.

    Opinions and interpretations of facts are also an issue of credibility for the jury to weigh. Note that so-called "expert witness testimony" is nothing but opinions and interpretations of facts.

    Your logic is flawed because you put the cart before the horse.

    No crime had been committed.

    Whether a crime had been committed or not, the Three Stooges could not have possibly known a crime had been committed.

    At the end of the day, this is JWB -- Jogging While Black. A Black man is jogging through a White neighborhood, therefore the Black man must have committed a crime, even though no one knows what crime had actually been committed, and that was reason enough in the minds of the Three Stooges to go after Arbery.
     
  9. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    The previous poster claimed "They however took it a step further and tried to block him in. They admitted to this", while the fact is that they did much more, as in spewing death threats with their guns out. Hence that poster is utterly inaccurate. I find it rather nitpicking if it was 1 person, 2 or 3 making death threats with 1, 2 or 3 with the guns out. It hardly changes the viewpoint of Arbery, and that these guys were hunting him down and used deadly force.

    As for your question. They all equally participating in that armed hunting party, with the intent of an illegal imprisonment / kidnapping. They chased Arbery around like that by car for 5 minutes like that, scaring the living daylights out of him. That is them breaking the law for 5 minutes. That is them having plenty of time to quit before it ended up in murder. Let's indeed use some logic.
     
  10. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    You can say all you want about "systematic racism" and the left looking for it "far and wide". Thing remains that the defense team had a specific problem that the pastor was black and present. They also managed to get an almost all white jury. The judge blocked all the racism expressed by defendants to be used against the defendants.

    It's a high profile case. The camera's are rolling. And we all saw how racism found it's way into the US justice system without a care in the world. And here you are basically saying it's an exception and so normally such things do not happen at all when the camera's are not rolling about a case nobody cares about.

    That's not really convincing anybody, now is it?


    Have you ever googled what happens when white and black people are found guilty of the exact same crime with the same criminal background etc etc, and a judge has to tell them what sentence they get? The US government actually keeps track of it, and it aint pretty.
     
  11. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah, I googled O.J.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021
  12. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    A black person not found guilty and so not getting a sentence disproves that guilty black people get sentenced longer under the same circumstances?
     
  13. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sentencing Day.... Any guesses?

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/07/us/ahmaud-arbery-sentencing-killers-mcmichael-bryan/index.html
     
  14. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Last edited: Jan 7, 2022
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  15. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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  16. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    taking the law into ones own hands is not smart

     
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