Discussion in 'Middle East' started by VotreAltesse, Oct 7, 2017.
No repeat after me :
Only a minority of muslims support ISIS.
You speak Arabic? MEMRI isn't trustryworthy.
No, but I trust the one who gave me the link, a former muslim who speak perfectly arabic. He do an amazing job.
Great post but you make the mistake of assuming that Al J represents all Muslims. Al J is a Sunni organization and as such is pretty much an arm of the Gulf States headed by El Saud.
Saudi Arabia is the worlds biggest supporter of extremist Islamist groups. Taliban, Al Qaeda/Al Nusra, ISIS, Al Shabaab, Boko Haram, MB, and a host of other similar groups all over the world share the same Saudi inspired Salafist ideology.
The Saud has been exporting this ideology all over the world for decades and supporting and often arming these groups. Al J, is an arm of the Saud so of course the largely Salafi viewing audience support these groups.
A whole lot of Muslims are not Salafi Islamist.
Salafism is not the only problem, there is other violent movement like takrifism.
Takfri is part of the same Saudi ideology. Takfri just means that they hate other Muslims who do not subscribe to their extremist Saudi inspired Islamist ideology.
The vast majority of Muslims do NOT support the US & Israeli (1) created ISIS or terrorism against civilians according to an earlier Gallup poll (2011)
"Muslim attitudes toward terrorism"
EXCERPT "A Gallup poll published in 2011, "suggests that one's religious identity and level of devotion have little to do with one's views about targeting civilians." The results of the survey suggested that "human development and governance - not piety or culture" were the strongest factors in explaining the public's view of violence toward civilians. In a Gallup World Poll in 2011, residents of the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) member states were less likely to justify the targeting and killing of civilians than residents of non-OIC states:
In Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) member states, 18% believe military attacks on civilians justified and 14% believe individual attacks on civilians justified.
In non-OIC states, 24% believe military attacks on civilians justified and 17% believe individual attacks on civilians justified.
In a regional breakdown, Gallup found that North Americans were most likely to justify military attacks on civilians, while residents of the MENA (Middle East and North Africa) region were most likely to oppose them. CONTINUED
(1) "Israeli Defense Minister Confirms Israel Backing Of ISIS in Syria"
EXCERPT "Washington created and supports ISIS, along with other anti-government terrorists in Syria and elsewhere. NATO, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and other regional rogue states supply them with weapons and other material support.
So does Israel. In June 2015, the Times of Israel quoted former Israeli defense minister Moshe Ya’alon, saying
“(W)e’ve assisted (anti-government terrorist groups in Syria on) two conditions. That they don’t get too close to (Israel’s) border, and…don’t touch the Druze.”CONTINUED
RE: Al-jazeera viewer massively support ISIS
※→ Grau, et al,
This was an informative posting. BUT, we all already know that most of the people of the Arab League States have a very poor perception of the US and Israel. Many Americans realize that the primary mental abilities of the Arab League Population play a major role in learning process; which has an impact on their critical thinking. And we can see a direct link between their Human Development and their view of America and Israel. Many Americans believe that the population of the Arab League States is beyond help.
The 2016 Human Development Report [a product of the Human Development Report Office (HDRO) at the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP)] rankings looked like this:
Norway was ranked #1 out of the recognized 188 nations that were rated in the world; having a Human Development Index (HDI) (and its components) in the very high ranged.
√ America and Canada tied for position #10
√ UK ranked #15
⇒ Israel ranked #19 (Out ranking by a significant margin, all Arab League States)As of 2016, there are a total of 22 member states; and their individual HDI ranking is:
Qatar ranked #33
Saudi Arabia ranked #38
Bahrain ranked #47
Kuwait ranked #51
Oman ranked #52
Mauritania ranked #64
Lebanon ranked #76
Algeria ranked #83
Jordan ranked #86
Tunisia ranked #97
Palestine ranked #99
Libya ranked #102
Egypt ranked #111
Iraq ranked #121
Morocco ranked #123
Comoros ranked #160
Sudan ranked #165
Djibouti ranked #172
Somalia • Unrated •
When evaluating, the perceptions held and the cognitive abilities of, the people in the Arab World, we must take into consideration how far, in human development terms, they have progressed towards the 21st Century.
Thanks for a very thoughtful & informative Post. However, I'm not quite clear how HDI relates to the topic at hand.
I agree that the Islamic world is behind the more advanced West etc on the HDI but my experiences in the Islamic world did not indicate a hostility toward American or Jewish PEOPLE. They were, of course either hostile to or confused by America's anti Islamic US Foreign Policy.
I spent about 10 - 11 months hitch-hiking throughout the Islamic Mid East and even as an obvious American encountered only warm hospitality & touching generosity. On the other hand, my kind & generous Muslim hosts were both hostile to and embarrassed the beggars in their own neighborhood as if they were ashamed of their regional poverty.
In reference to Islamic hostility to the West, my impression is more that they hate what we (the West) do to them rather than who we are.
They were especially confused as to America's unconditional support of Israel in spite of its Government's criminality
One of the questions I was most frequently asked was: "Why do Americans suddenly hate us?"
I tried to explain the toxic influence of AIPAC etc and the anti Islamic bias in American media to them but they still couldn't understand how the same American people who have accomplished so much could be so easily misled & deceived.
ISIS did not exist when I was in the Mid East but based on my previous experiences in the region, I cannot believe that it enjoys significant support from the people composing the culture in which I spent what seemed like quite a bit of time.
Again, many thanks & best wishes
RE: Al-jazeera viewer massively support ISIS
※→ Grau, et al,
I was responding to the first comment; wherein "The results of the survey suggested that "human development and governance - not piety or culture" were the strongest factors in explaining the public's view of violence toward civilians."
There could very well be a direct correlation between the HDI in the Arab world and the respect for Customary IHL:
1. The Principle of Distinction between Civilians and Combatants
2. Violence Aimed at Spreading Terror among the Civilian Population
23. Location of Military Objectives outside Densely Populated Areas
24. Removal of Civilians and Civilian Objects from the Vicinity of Military Objectives
89. Violence to Life
97. Human Shields
There could very well be a direct correlation between the HDI in the Arab world --- with respect to the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court:
• 8 (2) (a) (i) War crime of wilful killing
• 8 (2) (b) (i) War crime of attacking civilians
• 8 (2) (b) (v) War crime of attacking undefended places
• 8 (2) (e) (i) War crime of attacking civilians
• Article 8 bis Crime of aggression
The Arab Palestinian financing, planning, facilitating, preparing or perpetrating of acts or activities in support of Jihadist, Virulent Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgent, Radicalized Islamist, and Asymmetric Fighters is well known. The Arab Palestinian does not deny it, and does not hide it.
'There’s not one minute of the day or night when we aren’t building up our military might,' says Yahya Sinwar, rejecting Israeli and U.S. demands ■ Says for first time that Hamas will demand the release of Fatah leader Marwan Barghouti.
Hamas will not disarm, recognize Israel or cut off ties with Iran, as Israel and the United States are demanding of it, Yahya Sinwar, the organization’s leader in the Gaza Strip, said on Thursday.
• Hamas accuses U.S. of trying to thwart Palestinian unity after statement by Trump's envoy
• U.S.: If Hamas wants any role in Palestinian government, it must disarm and recognize Israel
• Reacting to reconciliation, Palestinians on Twitter voice hope for a brighter future
SOURCE: Khalil Hamra/AP | Hamas leader in the Gaza Strip Yahya Sinwar, October 3, 2017.
One of the supporting reasons why "Al-jazeera viewer massively support ISIS" is because they are concentrated in and around the Arab Nations with low HDI.
You're raising quite a few volatile points
If you're suggesting that Muslims are inherently more vicious than Westerners & Israelis, I'm afraid I have to disagree.
Please note the following:
The crime of making Americans aware of their own history"
EXCERPT "Is history getting too close for comfort for the fragile little American heart and mind? Their schools and their favorite media have done an excellent job of keeping them ignorant of what their favorite country has done to the rest of the world, but lately some discomforting points of view have managed to find their way into this well-defended American consciousness.
What, then, is the basis of all this? What has the United States actually been doing in the Middle East in the recent past?
• the shooting down of two Libyan planes in 1981
• the bombing of Lebanon in 1983 and 1984
• the bombing of Libya in 1986
• the bombing and sinking of an Iranian ship in 1987
• the shooting down of an Iranian passenger plane in 1988
• the shooting down of two more Libyan planes in 1989
• the massive bombing of the Iraqi people in 1991
• the continuing bombings and draconian sanctions against Iraq for the next 12 years
• the bombing of Afghanistan and Sudan in 1998
• the habitual support of Israel despite the routine devastation and torture it inflicts upon the Palestinian people
• the habitual condemnation of Palestinian resistance to this
• the abduction of “suspected terrorists” from Muslim countries, such as Malaysia, Pakistan, Lebanon and Albania, who were then taken to places like Egypt and Saudi Arabia, where they were tortured
• the large military and hi-tech presence in Islam’s holiest land, Saudi Arabia, and elsewhere in the Persian Gulf region
• the support of numerous undemocratic, authoritarian Middle East governments from the Shah of Iran to Mubarak of Egypt to the Saudi royal family
• the invasion, bombing and occupation of Afghanistan, 2001 to the present, and Iraq, 2003 to the present
• the bombings and continuous firing of missiles to assassinate individuals in Somalia, Yemen, Pakistan, and Libya during the period of 2006-2011
It can’t be repeated or emphasized enough. The biggest lie of the “war on terrorism”, although weakening, is that the targets of America’s attacks have an irrational hatred of the United States and its way of life, based on religious and cultural misunderstandings and envy. The large body of evidence to the contrary includes a 2004 report from the Defense Science Board, “a Federal advisory committee established to provide independent advice to the Secretary of Defense.” The report states:
Muslims do not hate our freedom, but rather they hate our policies. The overwhelming majority voice their objections to what they see as one-sided support in favor of Israel and against Palestinian rights, and the long-standing, even increasing, support for what Muslims collectively see as tyrannies, most notably Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan and the Gulf states. Thus, when American public diplomacy talks about bringing democracy to Islamic societies, this is seen as no more than self-serving hypocrisy."CONTINUED
Additionally, the Palestinian - Israeli conflict is not so simple as "Arabs = Bad, Israelis = Good" and began long before the invasion of murderous, foreign, Western supported Zionist Terrorist Gangs.
I can't think of any Occupied people who have not resisted their occupiers and the Palestinians are no exception.
Separate names with a comma.