Alabama Senate passes bill banning nearly all abortions /MOD WARNING

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by 3link, May 14, 2019.

  1. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    "Want"? Moronic reply on your part. Nobody wants that. But the reality is that most of the nation doesn't live within traveling distance to the best hospitals in cases of emergency. And the poor people who are at most risk for complicated pregnancies even have less access.
     
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  2. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    You are the one fallaciously claiming that there is so much of it it skews the cited report.

    So let's close all the other hospitals that aren't "the best"?

    AGAIN, even the AMA says it is NOT necessary and you don't have to be in "the best" hospital to get excellent care in this country.

    Just another strawman argument on your part.
     
  3. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Another moronic reply on your part.
    Where did I say we have to close hospitals that aren't the best? Bombastic hyperbole is not an argument - it's just something one pulls from their ass when they have nothing else. Just stop.
     
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  4. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    I didn't ask if it was legal or illegal.

    Does the constitution prevent a legal citizen of the USA from owning a nuke?
    Can you point it out?
     
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  5. bendog

    bendog Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Read Heller. But any comparison you are attempting to make is a false equivalent.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  6. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Which part in Heller would you be referring to that makes nuke ownership illegal?

    I am not making any comparisons, I'm wondering if there are constitutional limits imposed. Or if they're merely legal interpretations imposed on us by our gov't.
     
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  7. bendog

    bendog Well-Known Member

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    hey, great idea, anytime you want to consider whether there are const limitations, just read the const and decide for yourself. I'm sure that'll work.
     
  8. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    OK, I know there are no constitutional limitations. Only those that we the people via our gov't imposed upon us.
    And from your posts, I guess you are ok with those limitations imposed upon us.
     
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  9. bendog

    bendog Well-Known Member

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    While I haven't read it this morning, I'm willing to accept that the term "nuclear device" does not appear in the const and BoR. And I'm even trying to be sarcastic here.
     
  10. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So obviously -on the basis of these stats - the Alabama law is illegitimate.
     
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  11. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Probably ? are you not sure ? You are the one that lacks knowledge of biology by claiming defacto that a single human cell is a living human.

    Please cite where Biology backs up your claim.

    Last time I checked - according to the subject matter domain within Biology (Human Taxonomy) which determines what characteristics are required for an organism to be classified as "a human" - that organism needs to have membership - exhibit characteristics - of all of the following clubs.

    Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order, Family, Genus, Species

    The Zygote does not have the membership requirements for "Homo Sapiens" . So much for your knowledge of Biology.
     
  12. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    The entire debate on the status of a fetus really ignores the fact that anti-abortion laws do not work. We have decades of proof of this from the last time it was tried - and that was at a time when the whole country was far more conservative than it is now.

    Every dime wasted on anti-abortion laws could have been spent saving the lives of children who are wanted by their parents. Building new care facilities and well-baby clinics. Funding support programs for new mother to help alleviate their fears and the costs of bringing a newborn into the world - the driving factors behind women choosing abortion.
     
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  13. bendog

    bendog Well-Known Member

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    Imo it's more about the increasing secularization. I'm a fairly sincere member of what is probably the most socially progressive denomination … and even I have a hard time stomaching the ritual beliefs.

    I think the fundy Xians see a society where their moral code that they derive from their own subjective reading of scripture …. changing. Of the Five issues listed, I think most people don't really care about any of them.
    https://www.newsmax.com/FastFeatures/fundamentalist-christians-denominations/2015/04/17/id/639249/

    And it has nothing to do with ministering to the poor. That's just no an issue for the anti-choice folks.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  14. TurnerAshby

    TurnerAshby Well-Known Member

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    Laws that are enacted solely for political purposes are illegitmate imo
     
  15. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Gov't is not supposed to make any law - of its own volition (as in for political purposes) - that messes with individual liberty.

    This is the main principle on which this nation was founded. This is the whole point of the Declaration of Independence which sets out the guidelines for how law and the constitution are supposed to be interpreted and what constitutes illegitimate authority.

    Question - Do you want totalitarianism or do you want the power of Gov't to be limited ? I will answer for you (Limited - I do not want totalitarianism/Tyranny).

    Question 2 - OK then what should the authority of Gov't be limited to (as per the founding principles) This normally garners a "deer in headlights response" 12 years of school and we manage not to teach kids what the founding principles are.... go figure.

    With respect to individual liberty (recognizing that rights end where the nose of another begins - a mistake often made by folks claiming - what about murder, rape, and so on) .. Jefferson answers as follows:

    The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
    -- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82

    The whole point of putting essential liberty 'ABOVE" the legitimate authority of Gov't (as is done in the DOI) - is to put essential liberty ABOVE the legitimate authority of Gov't.

    If Gov't wants to make a law messing with individual liberty it is supposed to appeal to "we the people - consent of the governed" for a change to the social contract - construct by which the people give power to some authority (Gov't).

    The bar however is not 50+1. The bar is not "Simple Majority Mandate - some Politician getting elected".

    The bar is "Overwhelming consent" = at least 2/3rds majority. If 50+1 or simple majority mandate was enough to mess with essential liberty there would be no point in putting essential liberty "ABOVE" the legitimate authority of Gov't .

    Further - BY DEFINITION - A constitutional Republic differs from pure democracy in this respect:

    https://www.google.ca/search?ei=QCf...2......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71.CeJ-EPTLAG8

    Further - both Classical Liberalism and Republicanism refer to 50+1/ simple majority mandate as "Tyranny of the Majority".

    All of the above is US Political Science 101. We have fallen so far down the slippery slope that we can no longer even see the mountain top.

    Every sitting member of SCOTUS should be removed on the basis of failure to interpret law and the constitution on the basis of the founding principles. Sad -but True.
     
  16. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't. It also doesn't used gun, pistol, rifle or an other specific weapon or arms.
    Then there is no limits on weapons per the constitution and you and I agree on that.
     
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  17. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Are the unborn 'poor people'?
     
  18. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Like Roe v. Wade?
     
  19. TurnerAshby

    TurnerAshby Well-Known Member

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    Yep
     
  20. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of Heller, the LW thinks because there is supposedly a constitutional right to abortion, ergo the government must pay for abortions for poor people, does that mean the government should buy guns for poor people?
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  21. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    No
    Yes
     
  22. rcfoolinca288

    rcfoolinca288 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    L-O-L!!! Are you a mind reader now? Nobody here said such a thing. Now you are just plain deflecting.
     
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  23. bendog

    bendog Well-Known Member

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    Ah no, we do NOT agree. LOL. And I call bullshit.
     
  24. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    It does for humans AT THAT STAGE OF THE HUMAN LIFE. Else explain what Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order, Family, Genus, Species the product of the human sperm and ova produces other than
    Kingdom: Animalia
    Phylum: Chordata
    Subphylum: Vertebrata
    Class: Mammalia
    Subclass: Theria
    Infraclass: Eutheria
    Order: Primates
    Suborder: Anthropoidea
    Superfamily: Hominoidea
    Family: Hominidae
    Genus: Homo
    Species: sapiens
     
  25. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The zygote has none of the characteristics required for membership in the above clubs. For example - Vertebrata The defining characteristic of a vertebrate is the vertebral column, - A zygote does not have a vertebral column -it is therefore not a member of the subphylum Vertebrata. A human on the other hand does have a vertebral column - a human is thus a member of the club Vertebrata - and all the other clubs on the above list.

    The zygote is not a member of any of the clubs on the above list. In order for an organism to be a "Homo sapiens" it must have membership in all the above clubs.

    zygote is a single Eukaryotic Cell - Domain Eukarya. A zygote is a member of the club Eukarya

     

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