Almost-forgotten history of Diaoyu

Discussion in 'Asia' started by reedak, May 28, 2013.

  1. reedak

    reedak Well-Known Member

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    Following are excerpts from an article entitled "History is on China's side in islands dispute" by Ching Cheong, a senior journalist with The Straits Times, at http://www.asianewsnet.net/news-36903.html

    (Begin excerpts)
    ....Ryukyu historical records showed that from 1383 onwards, its kings derived their mandate to rule the islands from the Chinese emperor. This continued for nearly five centuries until 1879, when Japan annexed the islands and called them Okinawa prefecture.

    This is well documented in historical records, which is why when the US-led Allied powers held discussions on "restoring territories", referring to Chinese territories that Japan had taken by force, both the Ryukyus and Taiwan were included.

    According to American official records (Roosevelt-Chiang Dinner Meeting, Foreign Relations of the United States, 1943), then US President Franklin D. Roosevelt asked about China's intentions regarding the Ryukyus at a private dinner meeting with Chinese Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek on the sidelines of the 1943 Cairo Conference.

    "The President then referred to the question of the Ryukyu islands and enquired more than once whether China would want the Ryukyus.

    "The Generalissimo replied that China would be agreeable to joint occupation of the Ryukyus by China and the United States and, eventually, joint administration by the two countries under the trusteeship of an international organisation."

    The Soviet Union's leader Josef Stalin shared the same view about restoring territories to their rightful owner, China.

    A paragraph in a Memorandum of the White House Conference in January 1944 read: "President Roosevelt also recalled that Stalin is familiar with the history of the Liuchiu islands and that he is in complete agreement that they belong to China and should be returned to her, and further that the civil administration of all islands now controlled by Japan should be taken over by the United Nations."

    These two records amply show that the common international understanding at the time was that the Ryukyus belonged to China.

    In the Cairo Declaration announced by the Allied powers on Dec 1, 1943, one section stated that "Japan shall be stripped of all the islands in the Pacific which she has seized or occupied since the beginning of the first World War in 1914, and that all the territories Japan has stolen from the Chinese, such as Manchuria, Formosa and the Pescadores, shall be restored to the Republic of China. Japan will also be expelled from all other territories which she has taken by violence and greed."

    Most World War II historians agreed that the "territories" in the last sentence referred to the Ryukyus. It was not specified because the Sino-US joint trusteeship had not been ironed out yet....

    Then on Feb 2, 1946, US General Douglas MacArthur, Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers, issued a statement limiting Japanese territories to the four major islands and about 1,000 small islands situated north of 30 deg latitude. Since the Ryukyus, and also Diaoyu islands, lie south of 30 deg latitude, they are, legally speaking, no longer Japanese territory.

    ....the US has never challenged China's sovereignty over the Ryukyus and Diaoyu islands.

    ....Tokyo is obliged to respect the 1943 Cairo Declaration, the 1945 Potsdam Declaration and the so-called MacArthur Line defining the extent of Japanese sovereignty.

    Japan had better not cross the line. (End excerpts)

    In view of the historical records, China must keep reminding the US about their historically agreed joint administration of the Ryukyus under the trusteeship of an international organisation.

    Ching Cheong
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ching_Cheong
     
  2. reedak

    reedak Well-Known Member

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    China’s claim to the Diaoyu Islands gets unexpected boost from former Japanese Prime Minister Yukio Hatoyama.

    Following are excerpts from an article headlined "China’s Senkaku claim has basis: Hatoyama" at http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20...enkaku-claim-has-basis-hatoyama/#.UcnPXJxELmw

    (Begin excerpts)
    Former Prime Minister Yukio Hatoyama, in an interview aired Tuesday, indicated that from Beijing’s point of view, the Japan-held Senkaku Islands are Chinese territory based on the 1943 Cairo Declaration issued by the Allies.

    ....Hatoyama’s remarks run against Tokyo’s position that there is no dispute over the ownership of the Senkakus, which were seized by Japan in 1895.

    Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga said Hatoyama’s remarks were “irresponsible” and “totally unacceptable.”

    “I was dumbfounded and at loss for words after hearing those remarks,” Suga told reporters......

    “Such remarks by a former prime minister considerably damage the nation’s interests,” Suga said. “I believe the (Japanese) people share the same feeling.”

    China says Japan’s ownership of the islets runs counter to the Cairo Declaration, which called for Japan to be stripped of all islands it had seized or occupied in the Pacific since the beginning of World War I in 1914....

    Hatoyama said he thinks the Senkakus are implied in the Cairo Declaration from China’s view....

    Hatoyama said it is natural for both countries to think the islets are theirs, indicating, as he has previously stated, that Japan should admit the existence of the territorial dispute between the two countries. Taiwan also claims the islets.

    Hatoyama’s office in Tokyo declined comment on the interview except to repeat that he has urged the government to admit the row exists. (End excerpts)
     
  3. Akuma

    Akuma New Member

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    That is wrong. Senkaku are part of Japan. Evry country worldwide supports Japan in that. There isn´t even a dispute. Evry illegal actio of China could lead to war so China should calm down. The regime in China is aware they reached a dead end. Thats the reason why they don´t go to court. They must find a face-saving option to get out.
     
  4. reedak

    reedak Well-Known Member

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    Suppose your money is robbed at gunpoint, it's childish and useless to shout at the robber or to quarrel with him unless you are preparing to snatch back your money from the robber.

    Similarly, it's childish and useless for China to send warships to "patrol" the disputed rocks or keep on harping on the territorial issue with Japan unless it is preparing to go to war. Instead, China should try something more practical like downgrading diplomatic ties and applying economic sanctions on Japan.

    Likewise, Japan can't do anything to get back its "lost territories" from South Korea and Russia unless it is preparing to wage a war against both countries. At least, it is wise enough not to do such childish and useless thing as sending warships to "patrol" the "lost territories" but continuing claiming ownership of the islands without the risk of waging a war. In this regard, China should learn from Japan of responding with a more sober head.

    Territorial Disputes Involving Japan
    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...erritorial-Disputes-Involving-Japan.html?_r=0
     
  5. Akuma

    Akuma New Member

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    Japan is one of Chinas biggest trading partners. They can´t sanction Japan without sanction themself.
     
  6. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    not sure where you get the idea it belong to japan, its disputed area, from geolocation/history/ it should belong to taiwan. japan government escalte the issue by broking 30yrs status quo by purchasing the island from private party, thus telling china and taiwan, its officially part of japan control. not sure where you get the idea every country support japan on that. they support at japan claim only because they either has issue with china or taiwan or has something to gain from it.

    china lost both taiwan/the island after the 1st sino-jap war thats a fact.
     
  7. Akuma

    Akuma New Member

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    There is no dispute. Japan does not see any dispute. Any map in the world say its Japan. It is not just area of Japan but also proeprty of the city of Tokyo. You know whats disputed territory is? Tibet.
     
  8. reedak

    reedak Well-Known Member

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    So are you saying that a Shaolin monk in clubbing his own head when he breaks a Samurai's head with a club?

    Since the first Americans landed on Japanese soil, there has been a long history of trade and economic friction between the US and Japan. The US had applied economic sanctions on Japan in the last century, forcing Japan to expand eastwards and southwards to seek new markets and natural resources and leading to World War 2.

    Trade sanction has all along been a favourite weapon of Uncle Sam. China could learn from Uncle Sam in using the same economic weapon to deal with Japan.
     
  9. reedak

    reedak Well-Known Member

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    My friend, it's dangerous for you to confuse yourself with the meaning of "dispute". If you have a dispute with your girlfriend next time, but confuse it with making love, you will get a shock of your life when you get a few slaps from her.

    Look at the maps published by South Korea, Russia and China. Do they indicate that all their disputed territories belong to Japan?

    Japan makes a fatal mistake in "buying" the disputed rocks in the South China Sea. If the disputed rocks really belong to Japan, is there any need for Japan to purchase them? Taking an analogy, is there any need for you to buy your own children next time?

    My friend, not only do you confuse with the meaning of "dispute", you are totally confused with the meaning of "disputed territories". Let me inform you the real disputed territories: Hokkaido, Ryukyu and Diaoyu.

    Japan's conquest of the Ainu and invasion of Hokkaido
    http://historum.com/asian-history/61828-japan-s-conquest-ainu-invasion-hokkaido.html

    Invasion of Ryukyu
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Ryukyu

    Invasion of Ryukyu
    http://wiki.samurai-archives.com/index.php?title=Invasion_of_Ryukyu
     
  10. Akuma

    Akuma New Member

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    We are not friends so stop calling me friend. If a Shaolin Monk tries to break a Samurai Skulls he will chop off the hand of the monk before he can land a strike. Children are no property thus i can´t own them nor buy them...they are independend persons. Maybe you see that different in China. If China wants a dispute it should attack and see our response. Any other bla bla is just smoke.

    You want Senkaku? Come on and try to take it. We wait for that moment since a long time.
     
  11. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    what hit a nerve, seem like jap try anything to say its theirs even though they got it from war spoil, by location or history it has more association toward taiwan than japan. the same bs your government try to claim S.korean island too.
     
  12. reedak

    reedak Well-Known Member

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    If you say to your future wife next time that her child is not your child, and you are going to disown her child, her reply will probably be like this: "What are you saying? What do you mean by my child is not your child? Do you imply that I get my child from another man?"

    My friend, you will most probably end up as the second Hoichi the Earless. :smile:

    KWAIDAN Miminashi-Hoichi
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvb1Z6f1a-A
     
  13. Akuma

    Akuma New Member

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    you are kidding. I can't take that serious.
     
  14. reedak

    reedak Well-Known Member

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    My dear friend, it won't be surprising that typical Japanese like you would chant repeatedly in his heart even though he bows or shakes hands with his most hated enemy out of cordiality or social etiquette: "We are not friends so stop calling me friend. I am shaking hands with you now, but beware! One day I will chop off this hand of yours!" :smile:

    Japan, China leaders shake hands again but no talks on islands
    http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/10/07/uk-asia-japan-china-idUKBRE9960K420131007?feedType=RSS
     
  15. Akuma

    Akuma New Member

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    i would not shake hands with you. You are chinese i guess...
     
  16. CaptainAngryPants

    CaptainAngryPants New Member

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    What war? What will Japan do if China doesn't cooperate? Will Japan threaten China with more words?
     
  17. CaptainAngryPants

    CaptainAngryPants New Member

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    Your only friend.
    download.jpg
     
  18. Akuma

    Akuma New Member

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    We don't threaten China, we ignore them.

    What we do? Well what did Japan always do when China threatens us? We crushed then. China appears strong but is weak. They are divided inside. They never won a war against Japan. It is easily to crack their nation and create internal conflict between the various groups.
     
  19. CaptainAngryPants

    CaptainAngryPants New Member

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    In other words Japan doesn't have the military capability to confront China.
     
  20. Akuma

    Akuma New Member

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    of course we have. We are superior in the air and sea. We have survaillance over their entire country. China knows that. Thats the main reason why they avoid a conflict at all cost. They also fear our nuclear latency or "japan option" as your country names it. It means we are one screw driver away from building the nuke. Japan signed a treaty to not own nuclear bombs, but has all the rescources, knowledge and technology to build even the most powerful hydrogen bombs within weeks. Japan has one of the worlds largets plutonium reserves. That alone is enough to build up to 680 nuclear war heads. China is not interested to escalate it into that level.
     
  21. CaptainAngryPants

    CaptainAngryPants New Member

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    Japan has no nuclear weapons development or nuclear weapons industry of any kind. China has a large nuclear arsenal. Japan will do nothing.
     
  22. Akuma

    Akuma New Member

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    Again you are filled with lack of knowledge

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_latency

    "Nuclear latency is the condition of a country possessing the technology to quickly build nuclear weapons, without having actually yet done so.[1] Because such latent capability is not proscribed by the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, this is sometimes called the "Japan Option" (as a work-around to the treaty), as Japan is a clear case of a country with complete technical prowess to develop a nuclear weapon quickly,[2][3] or as it is sometimes called "being one screwdriver's turn" from the bomb, as Japan is considered to have the materials, expertise and technical capacity to make a nuclear bomb at will.[4][5][6][7][8][9] Another reputable case for nuclear latency is South Korea. Although not many people have analyzed the South Korean capability for nuclear weapon, it is quite possible that the ROK could make nuclear weapons in times of danger from the DPRK. Many South Koreans also support the obtainment of nuclear weapons to combat the threat of the North. Japan and Korea are both very similar in terms of nuclear latency and it is very possible that in a war both countries might procure a nuclear weapon.
    This term has also been used to refer to the 1989 incident in which North Korea began invalidating the Non-Proliferation Treaty."

    Japan is not silent. We attack any approch of China to our soil, which includes Senkaku island. And we already escalated it into a sea battle.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    It is in Chinas best interests to not escalate it further. After all they know how much worth their life is for us in conflict. We proved that often enough.
     
  23. reedak

    reedak Well-Known Member

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    Thanks God you won't shake hands with me otherwise I have to insure my hand at a high premium. :smile:

    Yes, I am an overseas Chinese. And thanks God I am not Japanese otherwise I have to insure my head at a high premium too.
     
  24. Akuma

    Akuma New Member

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    he he he what is an "oversea chinese"? Is your country so pathetic you have to leave?
     
  25. CaptainAngryPants

    CaptainAngryPants New Member

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    Suppose the Chinese don't want to wait patiently while Japan builds nuclear weapons? What then?
     

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