Alternatives to arming teachers

Trump's plan to arm teachers, i.e., his plan to pay teachers to come to class with a gun and pay to give them a course, is more likely to kill more people than it saves. Teachers are not "vigilantes". If cops who work on this all day, who have trained for years, from time to time still shoot an innocent person because they think they "see' a gun in their hand.... can you imagine somebody whose life-long training is to teach, and not to protect others?

The alternative to this is to bring in skilled security guards. Now, of course, that's not going to be enough. The real way to reduce the effects of school shootings (and other shootings) and to reduce the number of victims is to reduce the number of these episodes and to make it more difficult for the psycho to kill people.

This list is a broad reference to each proposal. All of them must be implemented at a Federal level in order for them to be effective. Nothing here is new. It has been debated many times before. As have been the details of each proposal. But anybody interested in a serious solution may contribute to this list.

-Ban the sale of "assault weapons"
-Ban "cop-killing" bullets
-Ban the sale of high-capacity magazines
-Bump-stock ban.
-Implement a federal mandatory background check for all gun sales
-Ban the sale of weapons to people with certain mental issues and who are in the "dp-not-fly" list
-Give courts the authority to confiscate guns from people who they consider a threat to themselves and others. (Red Flag Law)
-Raise the age limit for buying any kind of guns to 21 (at least)
-Implement strong nationwide cash-for-guns programs focusing primarily on assault weapons.

And to save some time, let's not waste it on the 2nd Amendment. Justice Antonin Scalia, when writing the opinion of the Court in District of Columbia v. Heller, went out of his way to point out that the right to own weapons "is not an unlimited". And courts have established that banning assault weapons does not curtail the right of self-defense, because there are plenty of other weapons.(handguns and long guns) for people to protect themselves.

 

You're right. It's a stupid idea to pay a bonus -- this will likely encourage unqualified people to sign up. Armed teachers should be strictly voluntary and should pass a basic firearm skills test. Local police departments would be a good resource for this.

You are misusing that word. Teachers are citizens and as such have the same constitutional rights as the rest of us.

Nice straw man. In an active shooter scenario, it is usually immediately clear who the threat is -- it will be the idiot who brought the wrong weapon -- an AR-15 -- that can be seen from a hundred yards away.

And when your skilled security guard is the first one shot? What do you do then? Oh right... throw rocks.

Wow. We actually agree on something.

Will only prevent people like me from buying them -- and I am never shooting up a school. Won't do a thing. And even if you successfully ban them, they are not even the best choice to carry out a mass shooting anyway. So, fail.

There is no such thing. Fail.

See #1 above.

You don't need a bump-fire stock to bump-fire a weapon. Fail.

I'm sure the Mexican gun trafficker you're buying your hot piece from will make sure all the paperwork is in order. Fail.

What about due process? How far are you willing to go to implement your police state?

See above.

See above.

"Dude did you shoot up that school yet?" Nah, I got $200 for my $1000 gun! Seemed like a good deal to me.

 

More drivel from the left wing...first of all, armed teachers are not going to be looking for a problem, they are going to be able to respond if there is a problem. Same as someone like me, I'm not a vigilante, im not out roaming the streets looking for trouble. But if trouble comes to my home, i will respond as needed.

"Ban the sale of assault weapons", again a leftist tactic. An assault rifle is a select fire rifle, an AR15 is semi-auto only. There are a lot of steps to get a class 3 license to possess an assault weapon. Just because a mustang looks like a Shelby, doesn't make it one.

"Ban 'cop-killing' bullets", I'm an avid shooter and collector and I don't know what that is. So you will have to clarify.

"Ban the sale of high capacity magazines", who determines the limit? How many is too many? I have a pistol that holds 30 rounds in the mag.

Bump stocks are a gimmick and not accurate.

Background checks are already required for all firearms sales...some states, not all, allow person to person sales.

There is already a question about mental health on the FF4473. The problem is that you have to be adjudicated mentally unstable to be disqualified.

The "no fly list" should not be considered because a person does not have due process

The courts should not have that kind of power, due process has to be followed. Convicted felons yes, not because my neighbor is pissed about something and tries to get the authorities to do their revenge.

I don't have a problem with raising the age to 21, as long as voting age is raised as well. And since 3 times as many people are injured or killed in auto accidents, let's raise the driving age too 21.

Cash for guns does not work, people will turn in Grandpa's crap wall hanger before they turn in AR's or good handguns.

Nice try, but these just don't work.

 

Just more liberal BS.

Same old fece from the same old poster.

 

And when these items do not reduce school shootings will you just accept them or push your bans even further?

That is the issue at question here.

 

Nonsense. There is no constitutional right to have a gun at your workplace.

No it is not! Every time you see one of these mass shootings playing out on TV, the first witnesses report that there was more than one shooter. Even when there was only one..

Again and again you keep showing that you have no perception of what this situations are like in reality. How would any of the teachers know that the shooter is only the guy using an AR-15? How do they know it's not the janitor who pulled out his celll phone to call 911 but that at a distance looks like a hand gun?

I don't what else to say. The only way the argument from the right works is if you have no perception of reality whatsoever. Which is something very common on the right. But not so much with rational people.

See OP

Really? Well now then let me rethink that....

Worked pretty well in Newtown, Saint Bernardino, Orlando, Las Vegas, Parkland... ....

Reality must really stink for you!

Ok.... Now that's pathetic. After I showed you a speech by the historical leader of your party in which he talks about them.

I would expect me saying that Reagan spoke about non-existent things.

So it's clear that you have no hold or interest on reality. Wingnut fantasy-land is your reality. That being the case, it's obviously a waste of time trying to expect anything even remotely resembling reason from you

Thanks for trying....

 

I've already informed him about the nonexistence of cop killer bullets. But when you're a legend in your own mind and start believing your own BS what do you expect?

 

You seem to have a knack for using a bunch of words to say absolutely nothing. Who cares how many steps it takes or what they look like?

Looks like I know more about guns than I thought. Go figure!

https://www.congress.gov/bill/99th-congress/house-bill/3132

Experts. I believe 10 was the agreed upon definition of "high capacity magazines"

Personally, I don't care who. So long as it's reasonable.

Good! Then you'll have no problem in agreeing to ban them...

So you're saying background checks are required for all firearm sales except the ones where they are not required.

I feel like I'm wasting my time reading this long message. I'll try for a bit more to see if there is anything whatsoever that makes sense. Nothing at this point, though.

Due process? I'm not saying we should put them in jail. I'm just saying don't allow them to buy guns.

Huh? What in the world do you think "due process" means?

Why? When has there ever been a mass shooting done with a gun loaded with voting ballots?

So you believe that the purpose of cars is to kill? Glad this message is coming to an end. I don't think I would have the patience to read much more nonsense.

They won't get too much for Grandpa's wall hanger. Do you think these events are handled by people who don't know the difference?

 

A so called "expert" determines a high capacity magazine. How does that work in liberal la la land?

 

You know nothing about arming teachers which has been ongoing in many states for over 18 years without any incidents. If you feel the need to draw attention to yourself perhaps it would be better to post on a topic you have even a tiny bit of knowledge about.

 

Wow, I'm so shocked!

When the people's of the several states constituted their general government, they delegated to it a small set of powers.

And now the general government they created is saying that it has more power than they gave it? A power grab by the government?

This is my shocked face.....

 

Flash bangs and AR-15s

 

I’m not wasting my time replying to the verbal diarrhea above. But I have one question: What is my party? I mean since you obviously have such great insight. You referenced it above.

 

He has already admitted he doesn’t know a thing about the subject matter. At this point I feel like a cat batting a dead mouse around the kitchen.

 

He's trolling and repeating talking points over and over again over subject matter he hasn't a clue about. Typical however for the average lib. Somehow they're under the mistaken impression that they're smart.

 

More than one round makes it a high capacity magazine..

 

Have yet to see that post. Have you?

 

Why does the right keep saying this as if it were a real argument? The problem with arming teachers starts when there are incidents. Incidents like... I dunno... a psycho with an assault weapon coming in to kill students, for example....

Oh... and BTW. Even though your point was irrelevant to the discussion, "without any incidents" is a tall order. I would suggest you be careful when you use expressions like that. I mean (just to give you one example), barely a couple of months ago....

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43217142

 

Why is it that it is always the government schools that have these issues?

 

And all that by somebody who is no less than one of the great Libertarian sweethearts: Justice Scalia

 

it's quite the arrogant, entitled piece of.. work... who believes they have the right and authority to tell another person they must cower helplessly until the police arrive (and decide if they're going take action or wait until the shooter runs out of ammo.)

 

He's a liberal. What do you expect? Courage?

 

How about this one
http://www.fox10tv.com/story/27812420/teacher-hurt-after-gun-goes-off-in-school-bathroom
Or this one
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-school-during-class-public-safety/422692002/
Or this one
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/parkla...l-teacher-sean-simpson-arrested-gun-restroom/

 

Ban rubber bands!