Am I responsible for the actions of those in the past?

Discussion in 'Human Rights' started by Pax Aeon, Jul 27, 2016.

  1. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    totally agree, I do not blame all blacks for those that sold slaves before they were even born and I do not blame all whites for those that bought them before they were ever born

    I don't blame current Germans for Hitler that were never alive or a part of Hitlers Germany

    the list goes on and on
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  2. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Agreed.

    Justice is for the living.
     
  3. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    According to the bible you are responsible for the actions of your parents. The most famous example of this is how God cursed both Adam and Eve with pain and work in life and also applied this punishment to all future generations of humanity for their actions rather than giving all humans the same test to see if they could live in the Garden of Eden.

    Exodus 20:5
    You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

    Numbers 14:18
    The Lord is slow to anger, abounding in love and forgiving sin and rebellion. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation.’

    We see this in action all over the bible. For example, the 10th plague where God kills the first born of Egypt and even Pharaoh's son for his stubborness:
    Exodus 12:29
    At midnight the Lord killed every firstborn male in Egypt from the firstborn son of Pharaoh who ruled the land to the firstborn son of the prisoner in jail, and also every firstborn animal.

    What is also interesting is that God actually hardened Pharaoh's heart so he wouldn't let the Isrealites go when threatened with the 10th plague:
    Exodus 11:10
    Moses and Aaron showed Pharaoh all these amazing things. Yet, the Lord made Pharaoh stubborn, so he wouldn’t let the Israelites leave his country.

    God also forbade bastards from being part of the congregation:
    Deuteronomy 23:2
    A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord.

    In another example, God punishes one of his servants with Leprosy and also all of his future generations:
    2 Kinds 5:27
    The leprosy therefore of Naaman shall cleave unto thee, and unto thy seed for ever. And he went out from his presence a leper as white as snow.

    We see this same philosophy among many democrats today. Reparations of direct or indirect form or just research into it is supported by Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, Kamala Harris, Julian Castro, Cory Booker, Amy Klobuchar, and Kirsten Gillibrand.

    Elizabeth Warren:
    "So I believe it’s time to start the national full-blown conversation about reparations in this country. And that means I support the bill in the House to appoint a congressional panel of experts, people that are studying this and talk about different ways we may be able to do it and make a report back to Congress, so that we can as a nation do what’s right and begin to heal."

    Julian Castro:
    "In other words, even though we weren't there in past generations, we've inherited a lot of moral assets, but you know what? We've also inherited some moral debts, and one of those debts we've never paid is the debt for that original sin of slavery. "
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  4. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    According to The Old Testament of The Bible, you mean, right?

    The New Testament changed a few things.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  5. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    Where does the New Testament end generational punishment? From what I recall Jesus only fulfilled the Law of Moses with all those little rules not every teaching in the Old Testament. Why is generational punishment ok before Jesus and immoral after him? And even after Jesus we are still living in a difficult world which is the punishment for the original sin.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
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  6. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    (Ezekiell18:20)--"The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself."

    As to Original Sin: do you believe The Bible is to be taken entirely literally? If so, then I have no answer for you. The Literal Bible is indeed chock full of contradictions. Thats why no major sect of Christianity (afaik) accepts an entirely literal interpretation; such is limited to small, imo culty sects.

    OS seems most likely to me to be a metaphorical depiction of Humanity's embracing Free Will over God's Will. God's Will was for us to be blissful, simple, ignorant and cared for with/by God in Eden. Or so he commanded, at least. As His 'pets' I think.

    We were allowed to choose the more free, but necessarily more difficult path.
     
  7. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    So this verse shows that the bible is in contradiction with itself. It support generational punishment in some verses and then opposes it in others.

    I think that a literal interpretation should be determined from the context of the writing. Genesis actually draws a genealogy from Adam and Eve all the way to Abraham indicating these are real people. Given that these are real people, the written stories about them are most likely literal. There is also no evidence that ancient societies took their creation myths metaphorically instead of literally. But even if I am wrong, there are still many other examples of generational punishment in the bible that are obviously not metaphorical. If you assume methodicalness when the scriptures are contradictory then you are assuming the bible is infallible and that contradictions aren't actual contradictions and so will stretch logic and common sense to misapply methodicalness to stories that were understood by their authors to be literal.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
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  8. xwsmithx

    xwsmithx Well-Known Member

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    "Emancipation should have laid waste to the Southern aristocracy. The economy was built on the forced labor of enslaved Africans, and almost half the Confederacy’s wealth was invested in owning humans. Once people could no longer be treated as chattel, that wealth evaporated."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-p...asties-regained-their-wealth-after-civil-war/

    And contrary to public opinion, the article says the southern landowners regained their wealth mostly through family connections, not through sharecropping.
     
  9. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    You speak like an extremist and your prejudice is showing because you’re sounding like you think that black people who get some benefits from affirmative-action are not competent enough. If I am wrong tell me how that hurts minorities. I guess I should tell all those racial minorities and women who now have opportunities that you have had for generations how they are being hurt. I have to tell all those minorities and women in medical and law schools how they are being hurt
    People have been treated differently throughout history based on accident of their birth but it was ok!...because it was patriarchy.
    You act as though the day segregation ended everything became equal while denying the legacy of history.
     
  10. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    So you think Donald trump and you had the same playing field . I have to assume you’re a white man because you’ve had all the opportunities and don’t know what it’s like to be denied opportunities. And the opportunities that you were allowed that we weren’t or things like loans to start businesses, education that barred certain groups, etc
     
  11. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    and every black American born after that time is just as responsible for that as every white American born after that time - we are all Americans... equally.. we all share America's past
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  12. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Yep...racism just disappeared ...(sarcasm alert)
     
  13. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    never said there was not

    there are whites that are racist against blacks
    and
    there are blacks that are racist against whites

    but to blame all whites or all blacks... based on the color of their skin is racist

    most of us our mutts anyways, a mixture of many breeds of humans.. I know I am

    is a black person that is the decedent of a slave owner that raped a black women responsible for slavery, as he is actually related to a slave owner, most whites are not as mostly the rich owned slaves

    my point is we have to stop looking at people and judging them based on their race as that is racist
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
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  14. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Good grief.. i have been denied lots of opportunities. Why? Because i was not qualified for them..

    You aren't a victim. Get over it..
     
  15. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    It mostly has.
     
  16. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump was born rich, most whites are not

    some blacks are also born rich, most blacks are not

    yes, privilege comes with $$$

    I grew up on welfare and I am white....
     
  17. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think it's making a comeback sadly, I see it from more whites today and see it from more blacks today ... I think Trump has encouraged this - but your right, it's still a small percent of the whole country

    the more racist whites a black person interacts with, the more likely they are to become tainted against whites

    the more racist blacks a white person interacts with, the more likely they are to become tainted against blacks

    let's hope this is just a political thing and is short lived and not a new trend, and the trend seems to be older whites and blacks, the younger generation seems to not have this issue, so there is hope

    it could also be caused by economic hardships that both whites and blacks are experiencing and they don't understand and are looking for someone to blame

    we need to get the economy back, stop excessive foreign imports and excessive foreign outsourcing and bring those jobs back home
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  18. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't sound like reparations that sounds like vengeance.
     
  19. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Yes there are whites that are racist against blacks and blacks that are racist against whites it for crying out loud who has the power in this country? But like the extremist you’re accusing me of blaming all white or all blacks. This has been a white patriarchal society for over 200 years where women and black people were denied equality and equal opportunities so they are way behind . The White makes didn’t have to compete with more than half the population...wasn’t that white male affirmative action?
    Yes it would be nice if we stop judging people on their race but all those neo-Nazis and white supremacists are the ones that you should be concerned about. You are aware of that hate groups and anti-Semitic groups are growing every day. They are the ones that judge people based on their race and gender and religion. You sound like Rodney King, “can’t we all just get along”. The answer is no!
     
  20. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Vengeance?Vengeance would be denying white males opportunities the way blacks and women were for hundreds of years Interesting that you see trying to take advantage of opportunities to catch up as vengeance. Very sad
     
  21. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    And if you’re male you still had opportunities..My husband grew up in the worst poverty I have ever seen, dropped out high school in tenth grade and ended up a Vice President at . Smith barney..He would be the first to tell you that had he not been a white male he never would have gotten where he was.thank goodness that is changing .Years ago when I would look down on the trading floor all you saw were white men and the women were usually secretaries
     
  22. Renee

    Renee Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  23. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    I find that the more i am around a person the more i sympathize with that person


    Yeah a link from the southern property law center, an organization known to lie.

    I am sure glad you get great vacations to nice tropical places to sky dive..
    If you can do it anyone who works hard can do it. No ones holding you back.

    Most people who aren't making it aren't making it because they don't try hard.
     
  24. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Special opportunities granted to people just because of an accident of their birth to pay back what was denied people before then. Yes that's vengeance. Go slay you're whale Captain Ahab. It will leave you empty. That is sad.
     
  25. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    It's been a hierarchy of competence since time began.. people who want to have success and influence need to gain some competence. Most Americans have very little valuable competence.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019

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