AMA Says Transgender Patients Don't Need Surgery To Change Birth Certificate

Well, what does the state really register when it registers gender? Does it register biology or "what you feel like inside"? I was under the impression that it was biology. Apparently some feel this isn't or shouldn't be the case. Then I ask: why bother at all? The statistics on gender will soon be useless for research as enough people change their legal gender. I also predict that a lot of draft-dodgers will use this method...

 

To all who are concerned. Boys are boys and girls are girls. What is so
hard to understand that.

But more importantly, why does anyone want to change nature?

Oh, I just realized that it's a politically charged issue. Forgive me for
thinking that rational thinking can solve this case.

 

Just as what is so hard to understand that your physical gender set at conception can and often is different to your mental gender that is set during fetal brain development .. The resulting person has no choice over either of them.

and your mental gender is as natural as your physical gender.

If it was rational thinking then perhaps it might mean something, just because you choose to ignore the scientific proof that mental gender is set during fetal brain development and that changes in hormone levels at that time can and do result in a female brain within a male body or vice-versa doesn't change that it is a scientific fact.

 

That's funny.



and your mental gender is as natural as your physical gender.



If it was rational thinking then perhaps it might mean something, just because you choose to ignore the scientific proof that mental gender is set during fetal brain development and that changes in hormone levels at that time can and do result in a female brain within a male body or vice-versa doesn't change that it is a scientific fact.[/QUOTE]

 

Yeah it would be to those who have no understanding of the issue and choose not to educate themselves on it in case it forces them to step out of their delusion.

 

Is this all you have? Baseless belittling and demeaning? If you have
understanding and not in a delusion you would have at least attempted a
reasonable and educated reply.

 

You mean like the one you gave

Reading that your response really is ironic and funny.

There are plenty of studies linking hormone variances during fetal brain development that directly effect the mental gender for those who wish to actually educate themselves.

 

I seriously thought your were kidding were speaking in psychobabble.
That's why it was funny.

Would you please provide one study with a link? If you can maybe we can
educate you if we have something viable to work with.

 

I don't joke when dealing with people who cannot be bothered to question their own entrenched opinions.

Would there be a point, as can be plainly seen you are not even open to the idea let alone any actual evidence, but here are just a few anyway.

http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.me.30.020179.002221
http://docs.autismresearchcentre.co...l and postnatal hormone effects_EuJPhysio.pdf
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01541686#page-1
http://psych.colorado.edu/~carey/pdffiles/cah_berenbaum01.pdf
http://www.researchgate.net/publica...rmones_on_sexual_differentiation_of_the_brain

 

Neither do I but I'm still polite to you. and your entrenched opinions.

From what you just posted I see you can't possibly be open to learning.
You didn't even read what you posted.

You didn't read this article or you wouldn't have posted it because it
doesn't support your case.

Another post like the previous.

Please produce the paper. The opening abstract doesn't provide any
pertinent evidence. I doubt seriously that you read this.

Still nothing that supports what you're saying.

Please produce the paper. The opening abstract doesn't provide any
pertinent evidence. I doubt seriously that you read this.

fugazi, none of the above provide evidence to support what you want to
believe is true. You'll have to do better than google searches you don't
read before posting. You should be embarrassed.

 

Just as I have been to you.

did you not post the following - If you can maybe we can educate you if we have something viable to work with. - that is an assumption that I am not educated and require someone one like you to do it.

Yep I did, and it does support the argument.

and another one that offers support for the argument

Pay the $39.95 as I did.

I am starting to doubt your comprehension ability.

sign up and the full text is there, even though the abstract gives support to the argument.

They all provide evidence to support the argument, and what was it you said about being polite .. now you accuse me of lying about what I have read and not read. It is you who should be embarrassed, and as I said no matter what I post you will find a reason not to bother.

 

No, you've been quite rude.

The exact wording doesn't matter. And yes, I'm assuming you're
uneducated because you've not been able to provide any real evidence,
including the 5 Google you posted in desperation hoping that I wouldn't
follow up. There is nothing that supports your case in "mental gender"
or whatever you want to call it in any of the following articles.

No you didn't. The article had nothing to do with "mental gender". Do you
know who the study was performed?

You didn't pay the $40 bucks. If you have you'd at least put up some
pertinent part to show you did. You didn't. You're being very disingenuous
and I believe untruthful.

Cop out to the max. You needed to say that because you can't support
your case. You need to belittle and demean in order to divert attention
from your ignorance.

No it doesn't.

 

and you don't consider that rude

and I couldn't care less if you followed up or not, there is enough evidence in those links despite you ignoring it.

Link one, shows the effects that sex hormones have on the developing nervous system ... considering the evidence from animal studies, it is a reasonable assumption that sex hormones may also have an influence on human brain differentiation, and thus play a role in psycosexual differentiation.

The other links also provide evidence to support that our mental gender can and is effected by hormonal imbalances during brain development at the foetal stages ... something that once set cannot be naturally changed.

Again you can believe what you like, it has no bearing on reality

wow, so now you can read minds, must be great in a crowd, and just as you doubt things about me I doubt things about you. I doubt you even read the links offered or even understood how the research done relates to humans.

yes it does, if you are so sure that nothing I have offered supports the argument then offer your own alternative explanation to the evidence, instead of just sitting there and stating "it's doesn't"

 

If there was I would have seen it or you would have at least clipped something
from them that supported you. You haven't and that's because you didn't
read the articles.

You have been "called out". Put up or shut up as they say.

 

Link 1 - considering the evidence from animal studies, it is a reasonable assumption that sex hormones may also have an influence on human brain differentiation, and thus play a role in psycosexual differentiation.

Link 2 - Timing and critical periods The timing of hormonal effects is crucial when studying lasting effects on development. There are generally thought to be two types of hormonal effects: organizational and activational. Organizational effects are most likely to occur during early development when most neural structures are being established, producing permanent changes in the brain

Link 3 - Experimental animal studies of the influence of prenatally or neonatally administered sex hormones on subsequent manifestations of sexual behavior implicate an organizing action of sex hormones and related substances on the brain, probably in the region of the hypothalamus. The rule would appear to be that female—male bipotentiality applies initially, prior to the influence of any sex hormone in the course of brain development. Bipotentiality would appear to persist when the early hormonal environment is feminine, so that either the feminine or the masculine component of mating behavior can be elicited in adulthood, dependent, among other things, on whether the eliciting hormone is estrogen or androgen. Bipotentiality is resolved in favor of unipolar masculinity of mating behavior if the early hormonal influence at the critical differentiating period is androgenic. The feminine component is then inhibited. Once this is accomplished, the feminine component will, in many, though perhaps not all species, be elicited only under special conditions, for example, direct brain stimulation, or not at all. In the course of normal differentiation, the initial completeness of inhibition of feminine potential varies across species.

Link 4 - Two types of hormonal effects have generally been distinguished: organizational and activational. Organizational effects produce permanent changes in the wiring and sensitivity of the brain and are thus largely irreversible; they are most likely to occur during early development when most neural structures are established

Link 5 - The sexual differences in the brain are affected by sex steroid hormones, which play important roles in the differentiation of neuroendocrine system and behavior. Testosterone, estrogen and dihydrotestosterone are the main steroid hormones responsible for the organization and sexual differentiation of brain structures during early development. The structural and behavioral differences in the female and male brains are observed in many animal species

More -
http://www.jtgga.org/sayilar/2/buyuk/163-7.pdf - The effects of prenatal sex steroid hormones on sexual differentiation of the brain
https://www.cvmbs.colostate.edu/bms/PDF/640_TD_sexdiffnotes.pdf - Sexual Differentiation of the Brain
http://www.uam.es/personal_pdi/psicologia/fpelaez/Ev_Int_P_sexuales/Documentos/Swaab_07.pdf - Sexual differentiation of the brain and behavior
http://www.hawaii.edu/hivandaids/Se...ty,_Transsexualism_and_Sexual_Orientation.pdf - Sexual differentiation of the human brain: relevance for gender identity, transsexualism and sexual orientation
http://www.cell.com/trends/cognitive-sciences/pdf/S1364-6613(10)00172-5.pdf - Sex-related variation in human behavior and the brain
http://www.andrews.edu/~rbailey/Chapter four/9583929.pdf - Prenatal hormone exposure and sexual variation

If that is not enough to even suggest to you that there is a link between hormone fluctuations effecting the brains physical development and mental gender then I give up trying to break through the myopic opinion you have.

 

You made my point. I highlighted some important bits. There is little, if any,
evidence to support your case and the above is guesswork at best. Nothing
was conclusive.

 

and you ignore the other links provided

As I said "If that is not enough to even suggest to you that there is a link between hormone fluctuations effecting the brains physical development and mental gender then I give up trying to break through the myopic opinion you have. "

I rest my case, there is nothing that I or any other person, regardless of their qualifications, could produce that would alter your perception.

 

You provided links to sites that don't have any conclusive evidence and
none of the experiments used humans. The bottom line is that they don't
know. It's subjective at best.

Before you say someone has a myopic opinion you better look into the
mirror because you're the one ignoring the facts contained in your own
posts.

 

As I said "If that is not enough to even suggest to you that there is a link
between hormone fluctuations effecting the brains physical development
and mental gender then I give up trying to break through the myopic opinion
you have."

 

When the evidence is stronger than what's akin to hearsay then the idea
of 'mental gender' may be something believable.

 

Hearsay - information received from other people which cannot be substantiated; rumour.

So the research means nothing

As I said "If that is not enough to even suggest to you that there is a link
between hormone fluctuations effecting the brains physical development
and mental gender then I give up trying to break through the myopic opinion
you have."

 

For what you're trying to make it say, yes. And especially about mental gender
which I didn't see mentioned in the articles.

 

Protests by gay rights activists against the APA began in 1970 when the organization held its convention in San Francisco. The activists disrupted the conference by interrupting speakers and shouting down and ridiculing psychiatrists who viewed homosexuality as a mental disorder. In 1971, gay rights activist Frank Kameny worked with the Gay Liberation Front collective to demonstrate against the APA's convention. At the 1971 conference, Kameny grabbed the microphone and yelled, "Psychiatry is the enemy incarnate. Psychiatry has waged a relentless war of extermination against us. You may take this as a declaration of war against you." To put is bluntly, the American Psychological Association buckled and caved to protesters, and therefore have no legitimacy now.

Homosexuality is a mental disorder. Why did the AMA remove it as a disorder? The APA is a political lobbying group that represents less than half of American psychiatrists/psychologists, and NO psychiatrists/psychologists in other nations. In other words, they represent squat, and their position is political, not authentically medical. Same sex attraction was always considered a disorder according to the APA until recently. So that's why the change

 

As explained to another poster mental gender is just an easy way to show the difference between physical gender and the gender of the brain. Gender Dysphoria would be another name for it, I personally don't like that label as it comes over as some sort of mental problem and based on the research I have seen I don't consider it to be a mental problem. I don't see how something that is hard wired during development can be seen as a mental problem, if that is the case then heterosexuality is as much as a mental problem as Gender Dysphoria, homosexuality etc.

I could have linked to the following - http://www.gires.org.uk/dysphoria.php - but I was of a mind that you would have called this biased.

 

I'm afraid your estimation lacks any credence. The APA removed homosexuality from the DSM due to a long term study bringing together previous studies that showed that homosexuality did not meet any of the recognised systems to be classified as a mental illness, those studies included the following;

Clellan Ford and Frank Beach's Patterns of Sexual Behavior (1951), relying on data from the Human Relations Area Files, found homosexuality to be common across cultures and to exist in almost all nonhuman species. Their work supported the notion that homosexuality was both natural and widespread.

Psychologist Evelyn Hooker's groundbreaking study compared the projective test results from 30 nonpatient homosexual men with those of 30 nonpatient heterosexual men. The study found that experienced psychologists, unaware of whose test results they were interpreting, could not distinguish between the two groups. This study was a serious challenge to the view that homosexuality was always associated with psychopathology.

Dr. Robert Spitzer and other members of the APA Task Force on Nomenclature and Statistics agreed to meet with a group of gay activists who presented the scientific evidence to its members and convinced the Task Force to study the issue further. The subsequent research review led the Nomenclature Committee of the APA to propose that homosexuality be eliminated from the DSM. This proposal was approved by the APA's Council on Research and Development, its Reference Committee, and by the Assembly of District Branches before being accepted by the APA's Board of Trustees in December 1973. Other major mental health professional organizations, including the American Psychological Association and the National Association of Social Workers, soon endorsed the APA action. The decision to declassify homosexuality was accompanied by the passage of an APA Position Statement, which supported the protection of the civil rights of homosexual persons.

Some APA members, primarily psychoanalysts who continued to espouse pathologizing views of homosexuality, challenged the leadership of the APA by calling for a referendum of the entire APA membership. The decision to remove homosexuality was upheld by a 58% majority of voting APA members.

The fact that all mental illnesses are destructive to the person and homosexuality is not only adds to the evidence that it is not a mental disorder. The mental issues that homosexuals can have is based on how other people view and treat them ie depression.