America Screws Canada

Discussion in 'Canada' started by LangleyMan, May 2, 2021.

  1. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course you are not talking about me. As I was not talking about you.
     
  2. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am sorry you see yourself as a lying poster given how you keep attacking me. But I am not attacking you. I see you keep attacking me.
     
  3. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    Grow up.
     
  4. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    No, not revenge. Sticking up for yourself in the face of studied injustice (America hoarding the covid vaccine when we promised otherwise) is sensible. Allowing us to hoard the vaccine and then see us give it to someone else would be too much. Canadians are are getting sick, so e dying, because they can't get enough vaccine.

    Should they have trusted us? No, of course not. Canadians were sold out by their pols and they let them get away with it. Their bad.

    In the longer term, we need them for raw materials more than Canada needs us.

    How would we like it if they traded access for raw materials to make surgical masks to Europe for vaccine and cut us out of the loop?
     
  5. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Yes.
    Until recently, they had a clear advantage.
    This author outlines some of the problem, but it isn't a matter of drug prices in Canada.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/04/canada-vaccine-rollout-problems/618516/

    More specific:

    "Despite Canada’s tightly woven commercial ties with the U.S., it has been getting Pfizer’s vaccines from Belgium until now because U.S. authorities had kept supplies made in the U.S. for domestic use."

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/canada-to-start-to-get-pfizer-vaccines-from-the-u-s-next-week

    I guess Americans don't like facing the consequences of their actions so we don't talk about what we did to Canada over vaccines.
     
  6. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well you are overstepping your evidence, as far as I can tell, unless you are suggesting that the U.S. had an obligation to send vaccines to Canada ahead of assuring we had a sufficient amount for ourselves. What you originally suggested was that, now the U.S. has decided to pare down its excess vaccines, and is planning on bypassing Canada, which is: 1) in need of more & which
    2) has some standing agreement with the U.S. to be supplied by us.

    As I recall, the only evidence you had of this, is a conversation between Chuck Todd (a newscaster), & Sen. Bernie Sanders, neither of which has an iota of sway over what we do with our vaccines. So, easy, boy. These Latin American countries, you said, had not yet received these surplus vaccines of ours and-- though I haven't yet read the article-- the title of your link is: Canada to start to get Pfizer vaccines from the U.S. next week (which doesn't sound like we are holding back from Canada at all).
     
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  7. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Look this is a Biden issue. Why don't you have a talk with your boy?
     
  8. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Yes. We have an obligation under USMCA to share vaccines.

    We wanted to make sure Canada in particular didn't gain duty free access to our market and then be in a position to limit our access to Canadian raw materials to gain a manufacturing advantage.
    (1) Canada is in need of more. (2) The USMCA.
    There's plenty of evidence and no need to cite much of it here. I provided evidence as requested.

    Biden speculated about sending vaccines to South America and India. I'm quite sure alarm bells went off in Ottawa and Mexico City.

    We burned a lot of bridges with Canada and they will undoubtedly find ways to disadvantage our producers of critical items like vaccines to protect themselves even if we send them a supply now that we're awash in vaccines.

    I said IF in regards to us sending vaccines to countries other than Canada and Mexico assuming Canada and Mexico are prepared to buy them.

    These Latin American countries, you said, had not yet received these surplus vaccines of ours and-- hough I haven't yet read the article--the title of your link is: Canada to start to get Pfizer vaccines from the U.S. next week (which doesn't sound like we are holding back from Canada at all).[/QUOTE]
    We already held back vaccines and even have a supply now that we're keeping. We'll see if Canada and Mexico get first dibs when we decide to share.

    (Born and raised in USA, naturalized in Canada, live in both.)

    Americans are like an elephant that doesn't give a damn on what it steps on. Crazy Bernie and (Up)Chuck Todd were speculating about screwing over Canada and Mexico. They don't look much better to Canadians following all this than the Orange Oaf.

    Do you think Canadians will be inclined to sacrifice so our West can get their water? If the vaccine shoe was in the other foot, would we forgive and forget? :roll: :roll:
     
  9. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Trump withheld vaccine when he was President, even issuing an executive order so the issue involves Republicans, too.

    Keep in mind there would be no Joe Biden if Trump hadn't screwed up covid.

    2E8560B5-BEED-4295-AB9E-CE7CF9651E49.jpeg
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
  10. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry but I just can't find any indication that "Trump withheld vaccine when he was President." There wasn't a vaccine shortage in Canada in January. This has nothing to do with Trump, and everything to do with the current administration but for some reason you can't acknowledge that.
     
  11. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there was. There still is.
    Trump issued an executive order.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/07/trump-to-sign-covid-19-vaccine-executive-order-prioritizing-americans.html

    Joe let it stand.
     
  12. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    1. I'm unclear why prioritizing the domestic population is a bad thing.

    2. Considering that Joe spent the entire first week of his Presidency undoing Trump's executive orders, maybe he let this one stand because...see point one.

    3. This is still an issue for the current administration, not the previous one. But please continue to scream about Trump if it makes you feel better.
     
  13. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    It isn't if you have no obligations.
    Joe said he was keeping the vaccines. Period.
    The buck stops on Joe's desk. Same is true of border problems. Folks put Joe in charge because Trump screwed up our covid.p response.
    4070E8D8-966F-45F0-A79B-40FF0D24B2C5.gif
     
  14. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    @LangleyMan

    I think you misunderstand the USMCA. It defines a free-trade zone. The only thing I could find about pharmaceuticals, had to do with patent exclusivity. There are patent laws that exist OUTSIDE OF the USMCA. In other words, the Pfizer, Moderna, & J&J vaccines are the intellectual property of those companies, with or without the USMCA. So it is not clear what your complaint is, here. Could you please post the actual text from the agreement, or a link to the agreement, along w/ which you cite the particular section & clause we should look at? Here is what I got from wikipedia:

    Pharmaceuticals
    USMCA provides for a patent term extension where there is an “unreasonable curtailment” of a pharmaceutical’s patent term stemming from delays in the regulatory or marketing approval process.[48]

    USMCA accounts for data exclusivity of new pharmaceutical products. New pharmaceutical products are those which do not contain a chemical entity that has been previously approved in that Party.[1] Generic manufacturers are prohibited from relying on the innovator’s previously undisclosed safety / efficacy testing for at least five years from the date marketing approval was first granted.[49] Mexico agreed to extend its data protection of new pharmaceutical products.[50] Canada’s data protection regime already offered an eight-year exclusivity period for innovative drugs and thus was not required to make changes.[51]
    <End Snip>

    Nothing there about the U.S. being obliged to supply Canadian's vaccines. It's actually a bizarre-sounding idea because, normally, the U.S. government is NOT even involved in vaccine-distribution (& this agreement was signed, pre-Covid). So 1) I am doubtful there is a legitimate basis to your claim, to begin with.

    2) But if we were compelled to give Canada & Mexico preferential consideration over other nations, you have no evidence that we have not done so; that is, until we actually send vaccines elsewhere, w/ Canada waiting in line, we have not skipped over them. So just hearing that we are thinking of sending vaccines to other places, is only reason for one with a paranoid perspective to imagine that we are planning on leaving out Canada. As I'd pointed out, your own clip said we were sending Canada vaccines this week, I think, & you have no date, or word of a confirmed plan, for us to send vaccines elsewhere.

    I would, additionally, point out that, BECAUSE OF OUR LONG, SHARED BORDERS, it is in the U.S.'s OWN SELF-INTEREST to make sure that Canada & Mexico are well-stocked with immunizations. (On top of all that, I had, previously, heard that Canada had a surplus of vaccines). So, where is the link to the Canadian government griping over this?

    Lastly, 3) your remaining criticism is that we had enough vaccine for ourselves, and stocking some back-ups is strictly forbidden, before Canada & Mexico are, "fully supplied." Same as #1: where is the quote from the USMCA agreement, stating that dubious stipulation?
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
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  15. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    "Stocking backups?" Your red herring highlights the difficulty in enforcing trade provisions and how a particular action may involve multiple USMCA sections.

    https://globalizationandhealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12992-019-0476-8

    https://ustr.gov/trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements/united-states-mexico-canada-agreement/fact-sheets/rebalancing

    This is the kind of crap Trump started whenever he thought it would suit his political interest:

    "U.S. President Donald Trump is vowing to stop the export of vital medical supplies despite a warning from Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to keep the Canada-U.S. border open to goods needed to fight the coronavirus pandemic.

    At the White House on Friday, Mr. Trump said he would use the Defense Production Act to prevent U.S. companies from selling N95 respirators, surgical masks, gloves and other personal protective equipment to other countries.

    “We need these items immediately for domestic use. We have to have them,” the President said at his daily briefing, describing medical supply exporters as “unscrupulous actors and profiteers.”

    In an executive order, Mr. Trump gave the Federal Emergency Management Agency the power to “allocate to domestic use” several types of medical personal protective equipment that would otherwise be exported. “It is the policy of the United States to prevent domestic brokers, distributors, and other intermediaries from diverting such material overseas,” the order reads.

    Mr. Trump shrugged off the warning from Mr. Trudeau, as well as criticism from medical manufacturer 3M, which said the U.S. government had ordered it to stop sending N95s to Canada and Latin America.

    “I don’t blame them," the President said. "They can push back if they want. We’re not happy with 3M.”

    Later in the briefing, Mr. Trump seemed to soften his position, saying that “long-term orders” from other countries to U.S. companies could go ahead. He did not explain the apparent contradiction. “If they have long-term orders and they’re in there. ... I’m not going to be stopping that,” he said.

    The executive order also appears to contain some discretion for FEMA, telling the agency to stop exports “as appropriate,” rather than containing an absolute block on exports."

    […]

    "Earlier in the day, Mr. Trudeau said blocking trade to Canada could “end up hurting Americans as much as it hurts anybody else.”

    “The level of integration between our economies goes both ways across the border," he said. "We are receiving essential supplies from the United States, but the United States also receives essential supplies and products – and indeed, health-care professionals – from Canada every single day. It would be a mistake to create blockages or reduce the amount of back-and-forth trade in essential goods and services, including medical goods, across our border.”


    Mr. Trudeau and Deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland were vague when asked about retaliation, but both said many Canadian doctors and nurses in southern Ontario work at medical facilities in the Detroit area.


    U.S. manufacturers also rely on Canada to supply pulp that goes into manufacturing some of the same surgical masks and gowns Mr. Trump is now vowing to stop exporting. The president of the Harmac Pacific paper mill in Nanaimo, B.C., said one of his U.S. customers doubled orders because of the pandemic, and some of those supplies would normally make their way back to Canada.


    Ms. Freeland also referred to Canada’s stand during talks to renegotiate the North American free-trade agreement, in which the country imposed retaliatory measures in response to U.S. tariffs on steel and aluminum."

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-trudeau-warns-us-over-restricting-the-trade-of-essential-goods-into/

    This is what Trump did to stir the pot (see above) and this what Trudeau threatened to do in response (see above) and likely why Trump backed off.
     
  16. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Here in Canada anti-American sentiment is close to zero among conservatives but tends to get stronger and stronger as political parties go further toward the left.

    In a way..... P. M. Justin Trudeau nearly guaranteed himself another victory in 2019 by continually attempting to criticize nearly everything that President Trump did.......
    even if in secret he actually might have agreed with him.
     
  17. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Well as a Canadian, are you guys freaked out by the US vaccine policy, as the OP suggests?
     
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  18. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I personally want to leave my being vaccinated as long as I possibly can.......

    Even if it gets to the place where my employer demands it.....
    I do have the option to retire any time now if I wish.......

    I knew how to boost my immune system greatly since twenty to thirty years so I am not very worried about
    the virus at all.

    I could go down and be vaccinated within a few days if I wanted to but I would like for more information to come out and some of the vaccines to likely be dropped from the list.

    I've read several of the articles on this blog that have given me a less than positive view of the vaccines in their present state.

    https://www.conservativehill.com/
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2021
  19. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    You can undoubtedly get Moderna or Pfizer now. They won't be "dropped from the list" in Canada.
    I wouldn't get my covid vaccine info from this website.

    Canadians will never go for this stuff. You couldn't even get elected in Langley, BC where my MP is Tamara Jensen.
     
  20. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Conservatives don't much care for Trump.

    [​IMG]
    Trump kept attacking Canada, so what would you expect?
     
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  21. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    True......
    much of the Conservative Party who are big fans of President Trump went over with Mr. Maxime Bernier back in 2018!

    I betcha you can easily guess which political party I joined back in 2018?

    For the record most members of Mr. Maxime Bernier might just want Dennis Tate banned from the party for being too left wing?!

    Bringing Canada up out of the Swamp!



     

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