American Wages, the Minimum Wage and Income Brackets

The manipulation of people is sufficiently widespread in any population that many psychiatrists admit that - thought not prevalent - it is a non uncommon affliction of the human personality.

No, not "all" - that characterization is kinda-sorta stoopid given the number of responsible democracies that have evolved since WW2 ...

 

It always depends upon the circumstances.

And frankly, I am tired of your one-liner sarcasm.

This is a Debate Forum, which means that you should substantiate your affirmations with "evidence".

 

Please name a few of these incorruptible "responsible democracies".
Denying that government and corruption are inevitably linked is "kinda-sorta stoopid". Isn't it?

 

There is no sarcasm. The thing speaks for itself.
How could equal protection of the law ever be possible?

 

Dear @danielpalos I am both encouraged and surprised to hear you agree that
any such system or established argument "must be under our Constitution"

What we NEED is a CONSTITUTIONAL agreement or argument that truly represents the consent of all people affected.

"Supreme" arguments handed down by the "Supreme Court" are not necessarily
constitutionally inclusive, protective and representative of all the people.
If they were, we would not object and push for legislative changes to correct the cause of opposition.
(as with the problems remaining with ACA and marriage rulings that established
one biased belief over others and failed to represent all people of all beliefs equally, thus are still contested).

If you and other liberals interpret the Constitutional duty of govt as "promoting general welfare"
and justifying social programs run through federal govt for "equal protection of persons and public interest"
we must remember that other citizens EQUALLY interpret Constitutional limits on Govt
"under the Constitution" as guaranteeing citizens are NOT DEPRIVED OF LIBERTY WITHOUT DUE PROCESS.

We cannot take one clause out of context from the Constitutional laws and process
to NEGATE OR DENY equal rights, beliefs and protections under other laws.
To continue making this mistake is to violate Constitutional laws against
putting certain enumerated powers above others to DISPARAGE RIGHTS
instead of protecting ALL RIGHTS AND BELIEFS of people as Equal Under Law.

The reason social programs and optional programs such as the Federal Reserve
have been added is that people consent to use these voluntarily.

That's not the same as pushing ANY program through govt "just because others got passed."
People especially taxpayers retain the right to CONSENT to what represents our interests and beliefs.

We cannot keep abusing party power to "bypass" the consent of the governed which is still
the basis of Constitutional laws and contracts.

Whatever combination of socialized programs and free market choice we come up with,
the PEOPLE affected must agree to follow and fund it, or it is in violation of Constitutional principles, process and beliefs.

People should have equal choice how much to socialize their resources
as to invest those in free market systems.

Then it will be Constitutional, to respect free choice of beliefs, systems and creeds for all people.

We need to balance and respect BOTH the belief in general welfare by socialized programs through govt
AND the belief in free market choices, consent of the governed, and representation of taxpayers.

We cannot force one system or another on opposing groups, or that's unconstitutional
as establishing political beliefs without consents and thus discriminating by creed.

To do this to individuals is a Civil Rights violation to discriminate by creed.

To collude as a collective organization, such as a political party abusing govt to impose discrimination by creed,
should be recognized as "conspiracy to violate equal civil rights" which normally constitutes a FELONY.

So anyone covering up and failing to report this as a FELONY would be as
guilty of MISPRISION of a FELONY.

If we don't take this seriously as collective Discrimination by Creed, that would make us ALL equally guilty of
either conspiracy or misprision in FELONIOUS violations by abuse of political parties and govt.

 

Yes and no @Ddyad and @danielpalos

1. if you are talking about the PERCEPTION and collective control psychologically of the "public"
this is the battle over MEDIA BIAS that both left and right, rich and poor, are blaming on others for manipulating.
I'd say the commercial media profiting off these conflicts is influencing the game by not promoting
solutions but just pitching and promoting more biased blame back and forth to hype up ratings, ads and profits.

2. If you are talking about economic and political control, the people with knowledge of the laws
of govt and laws of credit/finance have more power than people without knowledge or experience
managing property, finances and programs relegated to govt.

3. For spiritual control and authority, I've met as many rich as poor people who had this knowledge.
And it still boils down to who controls the property, the finances, and the access to credit.

The best chances of equalizing the game are on the spiritual level and the media level,
where people no longer have to be "controlled" by what we perceive is going on.

After we resolve that level and quit blaming conflicting groups, more people
can work together to address equal empowerment by sharing KNOWLEDGE
of the laws and managing capital, finances, work and health care resources
where we DON'T depend on "larger groups with more political or economic power."

We can liberate more people to share equal power and responsibility.

The barriers we can overcome first, without having the property or power of the larger groups,
is the psychological level of perception currently manipulated by media and our spiritual level of forgiveness
and awareness that conflicts do not empower us but keep us enslaved as pawns to commercialized politics.

We overcome the conflicts as portrayed in the media to keep us fighting and divided for profit,
then we can focus on gaining equal knowledge, access and empowerment by the laws.

So the people CAN take back control of resources instead of listening to media propaganda
pitting the rich blaming the poor against the poor blaming the rich.

We start by changing our own perceptions, and the rest will follow.
We have total control and choice in that change, by refusing
to be victims to politics and media telling us we are powerless and cannot do things "because of larger groups."

In truth, we have just as much access to organize enough leverage
to influence change if we overcome the barriers and limits we hide behind "blaming outside groups."

 

Dear @danielpalos

Yes and no. We would agree if PEOPLE ran it and gave ourselves credit for being and telling Govt what to do.

But this is not what happens in practice where GOVT gets so big and hard to check (by running everything
through Congress in DC for all 50 states and populations) that it ends up Govt being separated from people
and "handing down" whatever compromises can be pushed through with conflicted lobbying back and forth.

if PEOPLE truly ran govt where it represents PEOPLE,
then we'd have one set of PEOPLE running their programs and terms of benefits "through Govt" as YOU believe
and one set of PEOPLE running programs by free market, managing it directly themselves,
and just deducting or agreeing to pay taxes to govt for the part they AUTHORIZE Govt to manage.

In your case, you'd authorize EVERYTHING to be done through Govt.
In other cases, people might authorize the very MINIMUM.

So that would represent ALL PEOPLE REGARDLESS OF CREED.

Do you agree that if Govt represents people then they would AGREE to the terms of the contracts?

 

Increasing it is a simple cost of living adjustment; why is that bad?

 

We would need a true democracy for that:

 

More money for workers is good. But a minimum wage law will drive many potential employers out of the job marketplace. That is not good.

 

Ty for your very good thoughtful reply.

It is possible for the people to organize and create a system of government that represents the interests of their nation and its citizens. The American Revolution proved it.
But so far that has been a one off, and the checks and balances on the powers of the political class and its Deep State have obviously eroded since the founding.

“Republicans formally took over the House that Wednesday, January 5. … Such benchmark days in the institution mix a sense of slight renewal with a hammering sameness. Former members and sparkling lobbyist and musty perennials wander the wide halls past lost newcomers. Voters might have turned out the old and the entrenched in the wave election of 2010. But one of the palpable messages of a day like that says that Club membership is for life.” Mark Leibovich, This Town, Penguin Books, 2013, p.199.

On this forum whenever we concentrate on what would be good for ordinary Americans and thus America we can find common ground.
In Washington the DP/RP elites are thick as the thieves, and there is very little real interest in real substantive reform.

 

Thank you also for sharing common ideals and concerns @Ddyad
What I find works is focusing on those people or leaders who DO get what the standards are we are supposed to be enforcing, and DO see the people
as empowered as anyone else to enforce these laws.

We need to QUIT voting for endorsing the "victim mentality' that says that bullies rule, when in fact it is the people enforcing rules consistently who carry authority of law.

We need to start invoking that, and voting for people who take that approach!

Even if the majority of influencers are wrong, in pushing bad govt that violates Constitutional standards, ethics and process,
we need to commit to holding these wrongdoers to account, including
debts and damages caused by these abuses.

Until we demand to reimburse taxpayers CREDIT for those costs,
there is no reason to stop the abuse since taxpayers keep footing the bill.

When taxpayers get smart, and start teaming up across parties to refuse to pay these costs charged to our tab, and demanding recompensation for unauthorized policies and the cost incurred,
that's when just a FEW people agreeing on this stance can start invoking leverage.

We start with a just a FEW, maybe 1-2 from each party, go to the local officials and demand to issue corrections and assess/collect on damages from abuses being complained about. And document this either in writing or on camera or both. Post this online and ask others to start demanding the same.

We can start with the costs of the unconstitutional ACA mandates.
I wrote up an argument that Discrimination by Creed constitutes a civil
rights violation, from citizens forced by govt under penalty to comply with mandates and policies against Constitutional beliefs, principles, and process, and that an entire PARTY colluding to deprive and deny people's equal liberty, civil rights and protections regardless of creed that was violated by the passing, enforcing, and ruling of the ACA by govt abuse, constitutes a FELONY of "conspiring to violate civil rights" and that coverup and failing to report this as a felony further constitutes "misprision of a felony."

 

Dear @danielpalos
True Democracy is wherever you practice it.
Like true Christianity starts with people practicing it among themselves.

We don't need to establish a whole Christian nation in order to
have access to Christianity. Same with democracy.

 

A candidate who runs on liquidating bad government programs and recompensing taxpayers, productive workers, with the proceeds will tempt voters across the spectrum. The ACA, the VA and government schools would be a good place to start.

 

Only the one's who rely on cheap labor instead of better products at lower cost.

 

True democracy is not representative government.

 

Bleep bloop. Foo bar, bleep blah.

 

that is why you are ignorant of the concepts.

 

There are millions of jobs out there that will only be done by very cheap labor. Most individuals and small businesses cannot afford to pay unskilled workers anything close to the minimum wage to get those jobs done. Government should help.

 

Democracy is the tyranny of the majority.

 

Government does help; business gets to Expense the Cost of Labor.

 

Not enough to compensate individuals and small businesses for hiring unskilled workers. Government should supplement the wages unskilled workers directly.

 

You should be automating those tasks, anyway. Besides, the more Labor makes, the more You get to Expense. Why be so disingenuous.

 

Not sure why you continue to ignore that 'expensing' labor IS NOT advantageous to anyone?!

Business can expense their product costs and this is done in order to establish profit and taxation. Business expenses what they paid out and nothing more. If you wish to start taxing expenses then US business will close the doors...

 

From my perspective, expensing labor is just a tax break for business; so, from that perspective, why is it not advantageous and what would be better?