Americanisation of European: Extent, Causes and Solutions

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by Bjorn, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. Bjorn

    Bjorn Active Member

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    That American culture dominates the Western and Northern European cultural landscape will come as no surprise to anyone who lives there, but the extent of American cultural impact on language, values, and how we as Europeans view ourselves is bound to differ from country to country. Countries where English is spoken and understood more commonly, like in the British Isles obviously as well as Scandinavia, and the Netherlands would - I assume - be more likely to be more culturally Americanised than a country like Spain whose language has shaped even more countries' histories.

    The cause of Americanisation is no great mystery. Major powers have historically always caused neighbouring countries to copy its trends, views, language. Not because the major powers wanted to, but because the elites in the less powerful country did. Most notably, of course, is the influence of French culture from the late 17th to mid 18th century on the mannerisms, language and imported customs among the upper classes of the rest of Europe. But you saw the same trend within historical kingdoms themselves, the nobility mimicking the king/emperor, the middle class seeking to emulate the styles of the nobility. Or, later on, when petty bourgeoise would emulate the mannerisms of the higher middle class/merchant classes.

    In America's specific case, the age in which it became a major power has helped its cultural impact tremendously: Radio, invention of musical records, and the emergence of "pop culture", would spread American music, movies and later TV to the rest of the Western world, and beyond.

    This would serve to make American culture, customs, law, society and ways of looking at the world, part of "normality" to most Europeans. Not because Americans actively forced their culture upon us, but because Europeans sought out American culture and cultural expressions. The downside of that, is that you have young Europeans today who view their own society as if it's an American one, or that there aren't much differences between the two. They look at African immigrants, and instead of seeing them as immigrants from their respective African cultures and countries, label them "black" and themselves as "white", and place African within the same historical-cultural framework as American black people. Among European-born African immigrants, you sadly see them having adopted that way of thinking, too. And sure, there are overlaps due to historical and present day racism, colonialism, etc. but Africans who have the opportunity to keep and retain their own culture, should not throw that overboard to adopt an American race-based identity, just like Europeans should not label themselves "white Europeans". That's just one form of Americanisation, though.

    I also see the values of American neo-liberalism expressed by young kids here in Denmark parroting talking points aimed against the notion of the welfare state, that all who are poor are so because they're lazy, that universal health care is "Socialist", that sort of belief. You may call that simply an ideological belief, but the talking points, the references to memes, the attitudes, mimick precisely the talking points you'd see in some PragerU youtube video, or among American right-wingers.

    In the 90's in Denmark, hardly anyone even made music in my country that wasn't sung in English. Danish was considered an "uncool" singing language. This has fortunately changed again, but you still have a cultural trend where people will say an English word for something we have a word for... but use the English word because the Danish word is considered "old fashioned" or "uncool".

    The reason W/N Europeans - and other world regions, but this topic is about Europe - are so Americanised, is thus because we have become so used to everything American being the most "prestigious". My worry is that whether or not the only way we as Europeans can escape this feeling of cultural inferiority (or rather help those of our countrymen who suffer under it), is by stoking nationalism, or worse, European pan-nationalism. In other words, if the only solution to feelings of cultural inferiority is by trying to exert power over others? Like how power was used in the bad old times in Europe?

    Or is there some other, better, more peaceful way we can stop feeling a need to emulate those we deem more powerful than ourselves? If for example, it is simply the quantity of American cultural input that has made European youths internalize American values and outlooks, is the solution to somehow increase the quantity of European cultural input? Yet, how does one also make that as prestigious or attractive to viewers/listeners/readers who associate prestige with things that are American or come from the US?

    (And to American readers: No, this is not a hate screed against your culture. It is aimed at West and Northern Europeans, but the perspectives of anyone else, for example, Eastern European, African, West, Central and East Asian posters who have their own perspectives on preserving their cultures in the face of attempts by one's own countrymen to adopt American or Western values, are also welcome.)
     
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  2. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the near total domination of American pop culture, due to decades of movies, television, pop music and pop culture in general, has washed over not just Europe, but pretty much the entire world. However that seems likely to be coming to an end due to the proliferation of so much local content. Netflix is not only exporting American products, it's importing foreign products. As other countries figure out Hollywood's magic in TV and movie making, there will be much more local competition and American influence will wane.
     
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  3. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    To be completely fair, Northern Europe due to its relatively small population size (even Sweden, the largest of them) historically has long taken in and been heavily influenced by the leading nation-cultures of Europe, depending on which nation was most dominant in Europe at the time.
    If anyone takes the time to see the portraits of the long list of of Danish monarchs over their history, this can easily be seen in their manner of dress. First English, then Dutch, then French, then German.
    Having a small sized internal culture of their own, they are less insulated from outside culture.

    This can also even be seen in manner of beach swim dress. Bathing suits in Northern Europe tend to be much more American style (i.e. swim trunks), whereas German bathing suits are much more continental like Italy (i.e. speedos are the most commonly worn at the beach or public pools).

    This is not only true between different countries, but also within countries. Northern countries with smaller population sizes are much more influenced by the culture and political ideologies coming out of their big cities, especially since proportionally more of their total population is concentrated there.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  4. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    To be fair, that also happens in America. Different Eastern Asian ethnicities are much more likely to live in the same areas or intermarry than between other ethnicities. Although there does seem to be somewhat of a noticeable difference between Northeast Asians (Japanese, Chinese, Korean) and Southeast Asians (with some Southeast Asians being more "Chinese-like" than others, due to the long history of Chinese migration into that area). Skin color and face shape also seem to be somewhat of a marker for this distinction.

    I suspect that the African-identity (Black) in Europe would have still occurred independently even without American cultural influence. Although there definitely is at least some influence, as can be seen with the recent George Floyd riots in London and Paris (Blacks in Europe rioting over the death of a Black man in some relatively obscure part of the US).
    The US also tends to export its political ideologies and ideas to Europe, or rather Europe tends to actively import it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  5. cirdellin

    cirdellin Banned

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    If not America, what would you wish to be your primary influence.

    China is the next practical selection.

    Then Russia.

    Both brutal authoritarian regimes.

    Or do you find comfort in people making decisions for you?

    I wish my own country could find security in itself!
     
  6. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    easy.....none if you don't accept the premise of the OP.
     
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  7. cirdellin

    cirdellin Banned

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    I’m told that Europe can defend itself perfectly well against any external threat.

    So what is the delay in removing the American military presence?

    It would restore European autonomy and rid Europe of a dangerous cultural threat from the US.

    Right?
     
  8. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    @Bjorn I'm french and I agree with most of your point. The use of english words is sometimes stupid in french, in fact we have even false french english words that doesn't mean anything in english words.
    The use of a foreign language to look mysterious and smart have been a constancy in western history. For instance, for a long time people have used for that extent latin or greek. Now, some pseudo intellectuals would rather use english than latin. To be fair, learning another language is a good test for your intellectual faculties, and someone that speak 4 or 5 languages has without no doubt some intellectual capacities, and mediocre indivuals have always grossly impersonated that.
    I'm sad to see my own culture fading away.
    I notice that it can have something to do with religious feeling, for instance arabs, indian, russian and far east manage to keep a stronger cultural influence, simply because of Islam, Hinduism, Orthodoxy christianity and taoism/confucianism/buddhism.

    I'm beyond worried by the fact that the american culture become with time more and more crude, vulgar and over sexualized. To me it show clearly a decline of the mind. The europeans imite that cultural decline, and it's hard to say if we're then more or less advanced in that decline.

    I doubt that we can really escape a large part of that cultural mimetism. We share deep roots, and I doubt that with time, cultural barriers between people will fade even more. It's quite ironic we're constantly speaking of diversity has, the world is going toward less diversity, more cultural monoculture, but I don't think it can be avoided.

    Considering the quantity of cultural culture, France had a strong policy to force a minimum of french content. It's rather unsuccessfull, and even more with the internet.
    I suppose the solution is to have more, or better academy of music, art, basically trying to train better artists. I don't like however subsidized culture, that's often quite poor from an intellectual point of view.

    @cirdellin The post isn't about military presence, it's about cultural influence. Furthermore, you missed the point, it's not about hating american, it's about also keeping a form of cultural integrity. Considering your soldiers, take care of them, they have way too much suffered.
     
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  9. Bjorn

    Bjorn Active Member

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    Security? This is not a thread about security, about politics, about alliances or pro or anti-America. This is, as VotreAltesse correctly notes, a thread about culture. About being pro (or anti) respect for one's own culture.
     
  10. cirdellin

    cirdellin Banned

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    Are you respectful of your own culture?
    Why or why not?
     
  11. Bjorn

    Bjorn Active Member

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    My apologies for the late reply, I had become disenchanted with online debate for a time, so decided to take a break from all of it.

    We agree about a decline in American culture towards more crude and vulgar public... spectacles. This is very notable when you watch political debates, and even just talk show topics on US television from the 1960's to 70's. It seemed to respect the intellectual capability, as well as expecting more of Americans. To borrow a term from the labor movement in recent years, it's been a race to the bottom, a dumbing down by lowest common denominator TV and media moguls who look down on, and thus provide media content with that lower expectation in mind.

    I don't want us to break off cultural contact, or even some cultural exchange. It is the, how to say it... the almost unspoken, expectation or assumption among non-Americans in Europe and elsewhere, that American culture, American values are universal...that bother me, among Europeans, Africans and Asians. To me, this is mostly evident in how it has become standard among European left-wing, and center-left of cheering on an American view of "diversity" - the view that it is skin colors, the superficial differences , that make people "diverse", whereas in Europe, Africa and to a lesser extent Asia, where people might share fysiological similarities without having the same culture, religion or values, we'd call that diversity. It is the belief that that it is a sign of "progress", if Europe became a "melting pot" society like America's. I don't mind immigration from all over the world, frankly. I don't care about their skin tones... but I do care about their great-grand children become true, fellow... not just citizens, legally speaking, but part of our nations. But in order for them to do that, we have to become at ease with our own cultures, first. To me, that starts with seperating the notion of the nation, from that concept that's already a word associated with evil in today's EU: Nationalism. Let people learn that respecting the nation, and wanting to promote and protect it, isn't the same as national-ism.

    I do support subsidizing culture, but the format has to be very de-centralized, and not subject to direct - and preferebly not even indirect - political control. That when I agree with you that culture can become too...poor. Which I consider it to be when it becomes too entranched with the established power structure. I pay my taxes to benefit society, and that society includes culture. It is in recognition of the artist, the museums, etc. being part of my... tribe, that we aren't just citizens in a country ruled by the government, but that the state belongs to the nation. Therefore I cannot simply prefer leaving culture up to the wealthiest patrons and foundations - a path that has been increasing of late. I sorta like that idea about a "culture lottery" that I believe you have in France, though.
     
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  12. Bjorn

    Bjorn Active Member

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    I am. Because it is my home.
     
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  13. cirdellin

    cirdellin Banned

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    That’s good enough reason for me :)
     

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