An abomination...

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Ctrl, Mar 21, 2013.

  1. OverDrive

    OverDrive Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    11,990
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    48

    Not to beat up on a particular denomination, but the worst thing that happened to true Christianity is having been adopted as a 'state' religion and then being co-opted hence forth! And it continued 'beyond' the Reformation (an earnest attempt at putting the church on the right path) by the religious & powerful of those times (aka Henry the 8th et al).

    The Christian church 'flourished' thru persecution and afflictions for a couple hundred years, being kept pure by such, to the true spirit of the words of Christ.
     
  2. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    26,347
    Likes Received:
    172
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I gotta hand it to the first guy who spotted a lobster and said "I think I'll eat that."
     
  3. OverDrive

    OverDrive Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    11,990
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Speaking of 'ugly' tasting 'so good', that goes for pigs too! (love bacon!)
     
  4. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
    Messages:
    10,807
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    0
    al·le·go·ry noun \ˈa-lə-ˌgȯr-ē\
    plural al·le·go·ries
    Definition of ALLEGORY
    1: the expression by means of symbolic fictional figures and actions of truths or generalizations about human existence; also : an instance (as in a story or painting) of such expression
    2: a symbolic representation : emblem 2

    Definition 2 shows that an allegory can point to an allegory.
    Much like "Oh Brother Where Art Thou" points to the "Illiad".
    (I hope they don't pay you TOO much on that job!)
     
  5. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
    Messages:
    10,807
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Shane Claiborne agrees with you. You should read it.

    In reference to your previous post, I am not an end times worrier. I don't think Revelation is about what Darby invented in the 19th century. It is Hebrew apocalyptic literature, full of symbolism that was well known to them, and unknown to the Romans.
    People have been saying "now is the time" for centuries. They have always been wrong. Sooner or later someone will guess correctly, but I go with Jesus on that one. He says He doesn't even know when the time will come. Live like it will be tomorrow. Love like there is no time to change someone, only to let them know they are loved.
     
  6. OverDrive

    OverDrive Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    11,990
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    48

    Agreed for the most part. The authors of the early NT felt the need for expectation at any time. But signs are given thru out the NT to look for (such as the fig tree et al).

    I havnt bought my Nike's etc. [​IMG] but feel in my spirit that immediateness of something happening in this world, such as insignificant Israel, which has no resource importance to the world, being under persecution after almost 2000 yrs by the many. And as you know, it's all suppose to be centered around that area of the world. Does the rise of anti-Israel Islam (the 'other' son' of each Abraham/Jacob lineage) with no sane reason to attack Israel other than 'religion' seem odd to you?

    Regardless, no man will know the day nor hour, but we will know the 'season.' And Jesus did not know as the Son of Man while on the earth, but how about the 'resurrected' Son sitting at the right hand of the Father?! I would say that now 'He knows.'

    But I would say that "Live like it is today, not knowing tomorrow may bring" For lax or lazy believers may be surprised in their 'comfort.'
     
  7. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
    Messages:
    10,807
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Islam has been powerful before. Doesn't seem the least bit odd to me.

    In the end, though, I don't believe Revelation is about the end times as people think of them, so that meme isn't particularly compelling to me. I took a course with a Duke professor and my eyes were finally opened to this very interesting and, in my opinion, misunderstood book.
     
  8. OverDrive

    OverDrive Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    11,990
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    48

    There is some as in the Book Of Daniel that can be said has already happened, but if one understand the 'types & shadows' as being God revealing His plans ahead of time to His ppl with 'similarlies' (the same but not as exact). Rev can be looked at the way also, but much is in there that is beyond previous scripture and falls in the realm of 'horrendous.'

    But the key is that those who are 'His' and faithful to Him will "see the signs and know that the time is near"....if you have been around this earth for just the past 50 yrs you can see the 'exponential' increase of everything (technology & world jet travel, as in "ppl running to & fro") and the admonitions of Paul in 2 Tim 4 concerning the 'end times.'

    But I dont dwell on them, as the only way to 'validate' the scriptures is to travel down the road and when it happens, which will then be too late to say "I told you so!' But at least, I'm off the hook in my responsibility of blowing the warning horn......

    I only give glimpses of what I have studied for those who 'want' to know..Rev A seems to have the same MO. But 'we all' only know in part until the perfect comes...
     
  9. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
    Messages:
    10,807
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jesus blew the trumpet, and said no one will know the time.
    That was enough for me.
    Revelation was a treatise of comfort for a people that were actually being persecuted at the time by Rome.
    That's what I've learned.
     
  10. OverDrive

    OverDrive Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    11,990
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    48
    He said "the day nor hour".........Mark 13:32 ""But of that day or hour no one knows,....."

    But "the season?".....

    Thessalonians 5:1-11 (KJV) "1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
    2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
    3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
    4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.


    It would seem that the very thing you accuse others of doing, listening to other men and following denominational teachings, you are in fact doing!

    Can you read Daniel, the Gospels and Epistles with portions referencing the end times, and then Rev, and then looking around at the state of our present world, and come up with 'your own' conclusions?

    When you've done all that per the scripture, "Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth."........get back to me. [​IMG]
     
  11. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
    Messages:
    10,807
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Don't underestimate me.
    Daniel is a great example of apocalyptic literature of the Hebrews and it is also full of symbolism well known to them.
    There is none of scripture I haven't read many times. People always think the end times point to "now", no matter when they live. The predictions have been going on since Paul.
    Everyone has been wrong.
    There is no reason for me to believe that you aren't as well.
    I believe that understanding that Daniel and Revelation are Hebrew apocalyptic literature is critical to handling the word of truth. Without it, you land in the silly world of Darby.


    What denomination is preaching what I am suggesting? Love to give them a look-see.
     
  12. OverDrive

    OverDrive Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    11,990
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Wrong? Me? I have given no day nor hour, merely pointing to the season of the fig tree et al.

    Then let me ask you, seeing what's been going on the past last say 50 yrs, or even more recently, with your study of the scriptures that talk 'much' about an end time, what would be your best guess as what will be happening in the world over the next 20-30 yrs?

    Will it be an "as in the days of Noah" kind of answer?

    However, if you choose to blow off all the scriptures then you're off the hook...aka, taking 'the easy way out."

    I'm assuming that your were Episcopalian as your hinted once, and they are not known for having an emphasis on prophecy
     
  13. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
    Messages:
    10,807
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Nope. Have gone there briefly, but not my denomination.
    Not blowing off scriptures.
    Just have learned a bit more about them.
     
  14. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    3,262
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Yes, dear...you don't have a symbol of a symbol--that's what I said--you can ALLUDE to a symbol, but an allegory represents (is a symbol for) a "truth" (as noted in def 1).

    As for def. 2--your "Oh Brother Where Art Thou" example would be called an "homage" or perhaps a "parody." It is not an allegory. Your interpretation of def. 2 is way off.

    OH--and No....they don't pay us Public Educators very well at all--and we are the scapegoat of every social ill....

    (BTW--that's called "hyperbole ;) )
     
  15. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
    Messages:
    10,807
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Def 2 doesn't say a symoblic representation of what, so it can easily be of another story that was allegorical.
    Sorry.
     
  16. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    3,262
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I don't argue with blooming idiocy. ;). sorry.
     
  17. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
    Messages:
    10,807
    Likes Received:
    79
    Trophy Points:
    0
    No answer is sufficient.
    Happy Easter!!!
     
  18. Felicity

    Felicity Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    3,262
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    48
    A blessed Easter to you likewise.
     
  19. OverDrive

    OverDrive Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    11,990
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I'm enjoying 'your fruit,' Bruce.

    (as in showing some grace under fire)...[​IMG]
     
  20. prospect

    prospect New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    2,796
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I would like to point out that while Jesus said he didn't know the "day or hour," he certainly seemed to know what generation.
     
  21. junobet

    junobet New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    4,225
    Likes Received:
    53
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes dear, Christians do have common sense. That's why we tend to read the Bible with historical awareness. If you had some sort of historical awareness you'd know that western humanism would not have been possible without Christianity. You can thank Erasmus of Rotterdam et al. for it.
     

Share This Page