Anthropology has just been radically changed

Discussion in 'History & Past Politicians' started by Mushroom, Jul 17, 2019.

  1. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Until this month, it was always believed that H. Sapiens Largely remained in Africa and Asia until around 40,000 years ago. And for various reasons, Neanderthal was the only humanoid in Europe.

    But now that thought is radically shifting. Over 40 years ago 2 skulls were found in an oceanside cave in Greece. One an almost complete skull that was immediately identified as Neanderthal, and a skull fragment. Both were embedded in the same chunk of sediment, so it was assumed that they were probably from the same time period.

    But more recent research into the fragment has shocked anthropologists and may rewrite human migration into Europe.

    Known as Apidima 1 and Apidima 2, most attention had been given to Apidima 2 because it is almost complete. But only recently did they try to have the skulls fully recreated with modern imaging techniques. And that is when they got their shock.

    https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2019-07-10/oldest-modern-human-skull-in-eurasia

    This even predates the oldest known modern human bones in Asia. Pretty much all beliefs of early human migration may have to be thrown out, and entirely new models created.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/science...ll-oldest-human-fossil-outside-africa/593563/
     
  2. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Two partial crania, named Apidima 1 and Apidima 2, were excavated in the Apidima Cave complex. Apidima 2 had been identified as a Neanderthal (around 170,000 years old), while Apidima 1 is dated to be at least 210,000 years old, which is the oldest H. sapiens fossils found outside Africa. But Apidima 1 represents a dead-end human lineage which is
    not related to us. At the Apidima Cave complex, it is plausible that H. sapiens and Neanderthals coexisted for at least 10,000 years and interbred with each other. Some earlier studies have shown that human DNA introgressed into Neanderthals from an unidentified group of H. sapiens which left Africa earlier than commonly thought. Probably Harbati et al. (2019) stumbled into this extinct H. sapiens group in Greece.


    [​IMG]
    Figure 1 | Some key early fossils of Homo sapiens and related species in Africa and Eurasia. Harvati et al.5 present their analyses of two fossil skulls from Apidima Cave in Greece. They report that the fossil Apidima 1 is an H. sapiens specimen that is at least 210,000 years old, from a time when Neanderthals occupied many European sites. It is the earliest known example of H. sapiens in Europe, and is at least 160,000 years older than the next oldest H. sapiens fossils found in Europe6 (not shown). Harvati and colleagues confirm that, as previously reported7, Apidima 2 is a Neanderthal specimen, and they estimate that it is at least 170,000 years old. The authors’ findings, along with other discoveries of which a selection is shown here, shed light on the timing and locations of early successful and failed dispersals out of Africa of hominins (modern humans and other human relatives, such as Neanderthals and Denisovans). kyr, thousand years old.

     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
  3. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Donor

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    Why is H. erectus not mentioned. :angered:

    I just watched a Chinese anthropologist discuss the oldest human fossil
    was Sapian & Erectus hybrid based on chin angle!
     
  4. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Probably because other than a few isolated pockets on remote islands like Java, H. Erectus was extinct by 300,000 years ago. He was replaced by H. Heidelbergensis. Which was then replaced by H. Neanderthal.
     
  5. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Donor

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    1_Timeline_TemperatureVsCivilization.jpg
     
  6. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

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    Recent research revealed that H. erectus appeared to survive in Indonesia until about 35,000 to 50,000 years ago and interbred with modern humans. The new study by Teixeira and Cooper (2019) identified two extinct species which interbred with modern humans in Indonesia; EH1 and EH2. The first unknown extinct hominin - named EH1 - was roughly genetically equidistant from Denisovans and Neanderthals, meaning that EH1 was a Neanderthal/Denisovan hybrid. The ancestor of Australo-Papuan populations bred with EH1, resulting in 2.6 to 3.4 percent shared EH1 ancestry. EH2, the extinct hominin that interbred with modern humans on Flores, is likely to be H. erectus or H. floresiensis. Some Indonesian students in Australia looked slightly distant from modern humans and we now have some scientific explanations.
    .

    [​IMG]

     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2019
  7. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    And did I not say quite clearly "other than a few isolated pockets on remote islands like Java"? Geee, I am pretty sure I did.

    *looks back to double check*

    Yea, I sure did! We also know that the Woolly Mammoth had largely died off around 10-15,000 years ago. But there were still some alive as recently as 3-4,000 years ago. Once again, in isolated pockets and islands

    So basically you are posting information that says nothing. We know that H. Erectus survived on some of the Pacific Islands until possibly as recently as 30,000 years ago. But that is long after they had become extinct on the mainland, much like the mammoth's that survived on islands long after the rest of the species on the continents died off.

    Curiosities, no longer participating in evolution in any way other than going extinct when their shrinking ecology can no longer support them, or they are supplanted by something else.
     
  8. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Donor

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    We know Erectus hybridized as did Neanderthal.


    Continuity through continuous hybridization
    rather than species replacement
     
  9. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

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    There is a developing consensus that the ancestors of the Chinese interbred with Denisovans, Neanderthal cousins in Asia. It could have been a Homo erectus-like introgression into the Denisovans about 53,000 years ago. The Denisovan ancestry in Melanesians appears to originate from a Denisovan population distantly related to that of the Denisova 3 specimen, and a similar ancestry can also be found in East Asia, particularly in Chinese and Japanese. In East Asians, a second Denisovan introgression from a Denisovan population more closely related to the Denisova 3 specimen was also detected. Approximately one-third of the Denisovan segments in the Japanese and Chinese populations coming from the component with higher affinity to the Altai Denisovan genome. Strangely, a Denisovan-related introgression was also detected in the Finns at 0.84, which is the exact same value as the Han Chinese (Beijing).

    Table 2 Two-Component Mixtures for Denisovan-Related Introgression ( Browning at al. 2018 )

    Southern Han Chinese 0.82
    Han Chinese (Beijing) 0.84
    Chinese Dai 0.86
    Japanese (Tokyo) 0.86
    Finnish 0.84
    Punjabi (Pakistan) 0.82

     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
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  10. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Donor

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    1_Timeline_TemperatureVsCivilization.jpg
    Look at the span of time assigned to H. e.
    No doubt the early ones were very diff from the more modern ones.
    They seem to disappear from "the discussion".
    Also notice at the bottom, we are lucky to live between glacial periods.



    BTW did they give a value of Denisovan-Related Introgression for :flagcanada:s ?
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  11. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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  12. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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  13. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    I've never seen anything he said that I could call dogmatic. He seems to use the scientific method. I'm not in a position to verify whether he's presenting bogus evidence or not though. In one of his videos he shows us artifacts that are obviously made by modern humans that he says were found in deposits that were thirty million years old. If he's telling the truth, that shatters the official version. He may be lying and showing us stuff that he made himself. There's no way for us to tell just by watching the video.
     
  14. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    For a few decades I worked, taught and published in the field of Archaeology. I worked with a scholar that challenged mainstream thought, the results of our work, eventually changing mainstream narratives. There are still lots of mysteries. But, those mysteries also provide fertile ground for those seeking fame/fortune by revealing ‘secret, hidden, knowledge’; You tube is littered with videos by those promoting pseudo science narratives, self promoting special expertise, promulgators or exposers of conspiracy theory, and possessors of secret knowledge from everything from alien Antarctic bases, secret underground string pulling organizations, suppressed hidden histories, and more stuff of Hollywood style narratives. Many attract follows, usually, those ill equipped to assess the veracity of what is being sold. The topic of hidden, suppressed, and what can’t be explained, Archaeology is almost as frequent a topic as that of UFO/alien related videos (often the two are linked). So much hidden knowledge! Lol.
    Many of these have the same elements and pattern as one of the most famous hoaxes perpetrated on the Scientific community in the early 1900’s, the Piltdown man, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piltdown_Man.
    There are still those that will tell you, we are being deceived into believing the world isn’t flat, moon visit we’re a government hoax, visiting aliens were responsible for ancient monumental architecture, and Tesla’s free energy inventions are being suppressed by the government, and, and,
    Then there is Uri Gellar...
    When I hear of the fantastic ‘new’ exposes and revelations of ‘secret’ knowledge’ my reaction is more like that of James RandI; extraordinary evidence is needed to support extraordinary claims.
    Then there is snake oil...
     
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  15. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    You're a little vague. What is your stand? Are you saying that Michael Cremo is definitely a fraud?
    My stand is that I don't know. The human remains and artifacts and animal bones with blade cuts that he says are millions of year old have to be examined by objective experts. Until then, all we can do is sit on the fence.

    The proof that the moon missions were a hoax has been on the internet for years. Have you seen any of it?
    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/the-moon-landing-is-fake.553296/
     
  16. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Sure. And?

    There are more conspiracy theories, hoaxes, and declarations of special knowledge/powers than can be cataloged. Many become the narrative lines for Hollywood, and many defended as truth. While there is a lot of useful information and resources shared via You Tube, it is also repository for a huge number of propagation of Conspiracy videos, secret knowledge, coverup reveals, extraordinary powers claims, etc.
    A few examples:
    2012 doomsday theories
    9/11 conspiracies
    anti-vaccination movement
    Ancient Mayan Space Craft
    Archaeoraptor
    Area 51
    Arctic Extraterrestrial Space Base
    Apollo Moon landing hoax
    Aztec UFO hoax
    Ben Stein conspiracy
    Beer Theory of Civilization
    birthers
    cannabis cures cancer hoax
    Carlos Castaneda
    cattle "mutilation"
    crop circle
    crystal skulls
    electromagnetic fields (cell phones, power transmission, etc.) cause cancer
    Egyptian Aztec Connection
    Eldorado
    food allergy conspiracy
    Kennedy curse
    Kennedy Assassination Conspiracies
    Geller, Uri (accused of being a fraud by James Randi, but he denies it)
    Gerson therapy (Big Pharma conspiracy
    HIV/AIDS invented to infect gays conspiracy
    Hollow Earth and the hidden intelligent Reptilian Civilization
    Holocaust denial
    Horowitz, Leonard (many conspiracies but the best one is that the illuminati are behind the standards of the 12-note musical scale)
    Illuminati
    Indian rope trick
    Inset Fuel Stabilizer
    Januarius
    microacupuncture
    mind control
    perfect prediction scam
    Piltdown Hoax
    Philadelphia Experiment
    predatory open access journals
    Project Alpha
    Protocols of the Elders of Zion
    Pufedorf hoax
    2012 doomsday theories
    9/11 conspiracies
    alien abduction
    anti-vaccination movement
    Archaeoraptor
    area 51
    Apollo Moon landing hoax hoax
    Aztec UFO hoax
    belief armor
    Ben Stein conspiracy
    Big Oil Suppression of Water Fuel Technology
    birthers
    Bridey Murphy
    Rashid Buttar, D.O.
    cannabis cures cancer hoax
    Cardiff Giant
    "Carlos" hoax
    Castaneda, Carlos
    cattle "mutilation"
    charities hoax email
    chelation therapy
    chemtrails
    Hulda Clark
    climate change deniers
    Cottingly fairy hoax
    crop circle
    crystal skull
    Dixon, Jeane predictions
    electromagnetic fields (cell phones, Wi-Fi, etc.)
    fluoridation conspiracy
    food allergy conspiracy
    Fritz, Dr.
    Geller, Uri (accused of being a fraud by James Randi, but he denies it)
    Gerson therapy (Big Pharma conspiracy)
    haunted house
    herbal fuel
    HIV/AIDS denial
    hollow Earth
    Holocaust denial
    Horowitz, Leonard (many conspiracies but the best one is that the illuminati are behind the standards of the 12-note musical scale)
    Hutchison hoax
    Ica stones
    Illuminati
    Indian rope trick
    Inset Fuel Stabilizer
    Januarius
    Knight, J.Z. (Ramtha)
    Lenz, Frederick (Rama)
    manufactroversy
    medium
    microacupuncture
    mind control
    multi-level marketing (MLM)
    multi-level marketing (MLM) harassment
    organic food (GM conspiracy)
    perfect prediction scam
    Piltdown Hoax
    Philadelphia Experiment
    Poe's Law
    predatory open access journals
    Project Alpha
    Protocols of the Elders of Zion
    Protsch (von Zieten), Reiner
    psychic
    Pufedorf hoax
    pyramid schemes, chain letters, & Ponzi schemes
    QAnon Conspiracy
    quack Miranda warning
    Russian Conspiracies (take your pick)
    Roswell
    Satanic ritual abuse
    shroud of Turin
    Simpson, Rick (hemp oil cures cancer)
    Soal-Goldney experiment
    Sokal hoax
    Steve Terbot hoax
    Superstition Mountain’s Gold
    Time Travel Proof
    Trudeau, Kevin
    UFOs
    Urantia Book
    vaccine conspiracy
    Velikovsky, Immanuel
    Trump is an extraterrestrial planted to pave way for invasion

    And far more. All True, right?

    When I was in Graduate School, studying Archaeology back in the late 70’s, early ‘80’s, while off doing fieldwork, we had a popular drinking game; we’d develop and flesh ‘Camp Fire’ Theories. One, obviously a product of the drinking games was the Theory that Civilization arose from people’s desire for beer...over several drinking sessions we filled in supporting evidence for the narrative. It was good fun and served as a lesson of how such narratives can be manufactured and supplied with ‘credible’ evidence with the Ad Hoc Hypotheses. Funny, I recently watched a video on the ancient European western population migration and shift from the Hunter/Gatherer group organization to intensive agriculture where this ‘camp fire’ narrative was mentioned as one of the stimuli.
    In another, will discussing the criticisms of evolution, creationist narratives, and the Bible’s version of creation, we developed the ‘Devil’s Deception Theory’ explaining how the Devil planted evidence of evolution to deceive those from accepting the ‘True word of God’ as revealed in the multiple revelations to those spiritually inspired that contributed to the Bible. Somewhere in an alcohol inspired session, I put forth the proposition that I am God and successfully defended my position. Am, I God? Well, you have to have faith.
    As for the Moon landing Conspiracy, I planted the evidence.
     
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  17. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    You seem to trying to muddy the waters. Just say yes, or no. Do you think Michael Cremo is a fraud?

    It's good that you don't have a naive willingness to believe but you seem to have an a priori incredulity which is as fallacious as a naive willingness to believe. An objective truth-seeker has neither a naive willingness to believe, nor an a priori incredulity.


    The scientific method should be used is cases such as what Michael Cremo alleges. Knee-jerk dismissal and a bunch of snide remarks is not the scientific method.

    https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...hUKEwjmlqviqcblAhUL3uAKHQHRCiUQ4dUDCAs&uact=5
     
  18. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Member

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    The 'Out Of Africa' theory was never more than a convenient hand wave guess, anyway. DNA testing loses its accuracy past 5,000 years or so, and then there is the problem of mutations and adaptions alleged by Darwinism and its mentally ill spawn 'Evolution' that are mathematically absurd claims when all the different ethnic groups are included in many of these timelines. There is no scientific reason for humans to have had to originate from just one place.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019 at 1:42 PM
  19. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

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    In the new Nature study, the researchers sequenced about 200 L0 mitogenomes in indigenous people living around southern Africa. Haplogroup L0 is especially important as all living people are believed to descend on their maternal line from the woman who first carried the sequence, a hypothetical woman called "mitochondrial Eve." Today, the L0 lineage is found most commonly in the Khoisan people.



    Chan et al (2019) found that the homeland of H. sapiens is Makgadikgadi, a vast wetland in Botswana. The team found that mitochondrial Eve and her descendants lived in this region for about 30,000 years (from 200,000 to 170,000 years ago) before the L0 lineage split into its first subgroup.

    [​IMG]
    Fig. 2: L0 phylogenetic tree, geographical distributions of the major southern African L0 haplogroup and out-of-homeland L0 dispersal routes.

     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019 at 5:44 PM
  20. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Member

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    Speculation, not evidence. 'Hypothetical women'? Yes, I dreamed up some of those, especially as a teenager ... Most DNA evidence is unreliable past 5 to 10 thousand years.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019 at 2:36 AM
  21. Shook

    Shook Active Member

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    Girl Power! But problems, problems, problems, wouldn't ya know ...

    Clip admits that they're playing dirty with science. Quoting approximately:
    5000 years ago or 200,000 years ago? What?

    With pretty tinkling music, they pass false conclusions as fact based on multiple probabilities that probably can't even be quantified. In other words, they're calling their wistful thinking scientific fact. It isn't.

    You should be alarmed, but instead you're complicit, eager to bury information in a swamp of details that can't be verified. Why? To feel unique? To feel smart? To claim your own private territory where no one else will likely come in and challenge it? Because it's so nuts?
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019 at 7:48 PM
  22. Shook

    Shook Active Member

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    Based on 2 samples? Definitely conclusive proof.

    I agree that it should all get thrown out, however, and a lot more.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019 at 7:56 PM
  23. Blaster3

    Blaster3 Well-Known Member

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    the quantity isn't key, what is key, is that they were found in an unsuspected place which goes against all we've been told about the past...

    anywho, maybe you're correct and it was a pterodactyl that picked up the head & brought it back to it's cave... who knows? no one does, however it is very interesting...

    btw, there is no god(s)
     
  24. Shook

    Shook Active Member

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    Same thing can be said about stuff you find in the lawn with a metal detector.


    Good point. Not sure why that's interesting, but to each their own.

    Did you just flip me the bird? I think so. I think you did. :omfg:
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019 at 1:19 PM

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