Anti-mask protests

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by CenterField, Sep 16, 2020.

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  1. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    Avoidance of what? Please go back and read my first comments. My anecdotal comments are anecdotal because I'm not talking about all hospitals and all nurses. I was specific about the one hospital where my wife works and was concerned about an outbreak at that facility. Please look again and you'll see that I'm not advocating that people be forced to wear masks, but that I think it's a good idea to help slow the spread. And again, I said that some masks are not very effective, but feel we should mitigate as much as possible.

    You seem to be trying to herd me into a stereotype based on the most common arguments certain media promote about the virus. Why should I not believe that you haven't done the same kind of imposition of beliefs and biases into your understanding of what's happening in the world? Should I accept what you say as authoritative and knowledgeable? I'm sorry. All I'm hearing is opinion that doesn't seem to come from professional experience, but rather from political beliefs.

    Have a wonderful day.
     
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  2. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Democrats were calling Trump xenophobic and accusing him of fear mongering since well before the "travel restrictions" announcement. Because Trump is a xenophobic fear mongerer.

    BTW, you're way behind on the news. There was never a travel ban.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
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  3. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    nah, you asked me "how do i know that electives at said hospital are being done"

    I responded that your avoidance of stating so either way, provides the answer. If electives were not happening, you'd be all over it stating such
     
  4. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I had to reveal hidden messages, to see who you were talking to. I put that guy on iggy a long time ago. I don't even recognize the name. LOL.
     
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  5. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    If you wish to remove yourself, so be it.

    You are not an Admin, nor do you speak for Admins. Dismissing an argument as a "conspiracy theory" is one of the many common mantras of online discourse. It stems from the Argument By Popularity Fallacy, an attempt to refute an argument due to the perceived low popularity of it.

    Dude, a Chinese virologist, and now whistleblower, (Li-Meng Yan) who was actually in the thick of things has come out and told everyone that the virus was made in a lab and that it did not come about naturally, and has even published an extensive study detailing precisely why that is (by studying the genome). It is no conspiracy theory. You can go look at the study for yourself.

    You're not paying very close attention to what Dems are saying then, are you... They have recently said that they will expand the size of the court and pack it with liberals as they did in the FDR days (to get around the latest "conservative" justice appointments)... Chuck Schumer recently shared on twitter what is supposedly Ruth Bader Ginsburg's "last wish": that she would not be replaced until a new President was installed.... yes, INSTALLED... not elected... INSTALLED ..... People need to wake up to the planned liberal tyranny before it is too late for them.

    First off, no it doesn't. Second off, we aren't talking about 0.3 micron pores. People aren't wearing N95 masks around... They are wearing around masks with 3.0 micron or larger pores...

    Make **** up all you want... Here in Wisconsin, cases have increased ever since the statewide mask mandate was put into place.

    A credential is not necessary, nor is it a proof of anything.

    No, it's been supported.

    I do understand how death certificates work. YOU don't, and you don't understand how the media is manipulating the information to fit a fear--mongering narrative...

    You've been wearing masks around everywhere for 8+ hours each day for the past 100+ years??? Funny... I haven't seen basically anyone wear a mask around anywhere until this whole controlyavirus hoax began...

    ... and you ignore the studies that show that masks don't do jack ****... Anyhow, I don't even care about studies... I care about science, logic, mathematics, and engineering, all of which you are denying.

    Okay, bye. Thank you for removing yourself.
     
  6. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

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    Liberal lies.
     
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  7. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know if you are really talking about repeatability or you mean reproducibility. But peer review guarantees neither. In fact, reproducibility of peer reviewed studies is very low.
     
  8. catalinacat

    catalinacat Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Really, that's as good as you can do? Dentist, doctors, surgeons wearing masks has nothing to do with covid, THAT is their JOB, got it? The guy in front of the room was not getting ready to conduct a surgery, he was attending a council meeting. You keep enjoying being a conformist. Keep taking the easy way out.
     
  9. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I may be using the wrong word. Along the lines of, the reason we know ammonia and bleach are a poisonous concoction, is that every time those two are mixed together, it creates poison. That's science. Until someone can prove otherwise, that is the accepted science.

    Masks have been in use for over 100 years. We know they work.

    Uh, what? Did you just come out of a six month coma?
     
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  10. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    The terms are a bit nuanced. I like your bleach ammonia example.

    Let’s say we are going to study bleach/ammonia reaction and present our study for peer review and publication. We take specific amounts of each, mix them in a specific container in a specific environment and measure the results (the same person using the same measuring devices). We do this a number of times to get a data set. The variations in the resultant data set represent repeatability.

    Now when our study is peer reviewed, peers can’t validate repeatability because they weren’t there to observe the experimentation. They can’t verify we did in fact use the same ratio or amounts of ammonia/bleach. All they can do is ensure the methodology of our study is sound. If the peer reviewers knew for certain what the data set should look like there wouldn’t be any need for experimentation, right?

    So we pass peer review and are published. Someone in Pakistan reads our paper and wants to conduct the same study to see if the results can be reproduced. Whether or not this fellow can achieve the same results following our methods determines reproducibility.

    At this point in time it’s believed only about 60-70% of peer reviewed studies in social sciences and medicine can be reproduced.

    I agree with you on what constitutes “science”. My disagreement is with the idea peer review can guarantee either repeatability or reproducibility. It can’t. Not because it’s bad or defective, because it’s like trying to use a hammer to cut wood or a saw to hammer nails. It isn’t the tool capable of doing the job.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
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  11. Curious Always

    Curious Always Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Okay. Good explanation. Thanks. I am not a scientist, but I understand the basics. My main point is that the only thing that changes scientific understanding, is better science. Scientists are in the business of disproving other people's hypothesis or theories. This whole, "we don't know if masks work," nonsense is just that.
     
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  12. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Masks work very well for providing a false sense of security to the wearer. Depending upon model, they work very well at reducing oxygen saturation and increasing carbon dioxide saturation in the blood.

    They have no quantifiable effect on reducing the airborne transmission of virus.
     
  13. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

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    and the virus can remain active for up to 28 days on a cell phone. But we never touch our cell phones, do we?

    Masking up is more about symbolism than efficacy.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54500673
     
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  14. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    Anti-mask protests
    People, this is a DEADLY disease. It should have never been presented as a political issue. It's a national health issue. It's an issue of life & death. Politics just gets in the way. We all need to disentangle ourselves from the hamstrings of politics, & start responding to the very real dangers of this pandemic. Wear the masks to protect yourself & those you love. Wear masks to protect others around you, because their lives are important too. Practice social distancing for the same reason. If we all do these simple things from now until the vaccine is available, we'll save hundreds of thousands of our fellow Americans, including those we love, & perhaps even ourselves. Forget politics. Help save lives. :)
     
  15. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    That has been proven false by research medical scientists. They DO help. They help a lot. They don't offer 100% protection, but they offer up to 80%, depending on the mask used. Why are you spreading lies?
     
  16. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Pure propaganda XR
     
  17. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    A thought just occurred to me, & I'm wondering what others think about the concept. Could a partial factor, in the overtly hostile reaction to mask-wearing, be related to people mentally connecting these types of face coverings with the veils worn by MUSLIM women, predominently in the MID-EAST?
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2020
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  18. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I doubt it. It's more because their idol Trump seemed to be contemptuous of it. I think this factor accounts for 90% of the animosity.
     
  19. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    On another topic, I'd never before ENLARGED your tiny avatar on my little phone screen, & so just now discovered that what I'd always seen as a well-fed, lazily lounging, orange/ginger- kitty has, all along, been a seal! Additionally, you seem to be suggesting that you are a physician; so l learned a good bit of new information about you, from replying to this post. With those new data-points in mind, can I suggest, for you, the A.K.A. of, "DoctorSeal?"
     
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  20. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL.
    DoctorCenterSeal?
     
  21. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    Don't you mean, CenterSealed?
     
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  22. CenterField

    CenterField Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Even better. DoctorCenterSealed. Haha.
     
  23. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Some say one of the reasons the muslim religion covers the face of women is because they consider the women to be inferior, a type of slave if you will.

    Those wearing masks demonstrate a willingness to be submissive, especially given all the science showing they do nothing at all to prevent the transmission of virus.
     
  24. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    Thank you for answering. So, it seems you agree that there is a connection? But what I'd been wondering, had been if the Muslim practice could have played a contributory role in Americans' objections. That is to say, would you have seen wearing a mask as an act of submission regardless of the predominantly Middle-Eastern tradition?

    While obliging one to wear any article of clothing could certainly be seen as an exercise of one's control over that person, I never heard the viewpoint of its being intended to signal inferiority (at least, not any more than having different dress codes for men & women, common in our own society until fairly recently, could be argued to imply). Some women, I know, are strong supporters of the veil-wearing tradition. Could you possibly cite the source for your belief that, "some say," this?

    Lastly, I'll add that I had always assumed the veiling of women had much more to do with suppressing the advances of men towards women & girls who were considered off-limits to them. Besides hiding features that might tempt, limiting their visibility restricts the non-verbal communication, surrounding, "glances." That said, the imagination is a powerful thing.

    I will also note, BTW, that the word Islam, literally does mean, "submission."
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
  25. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Having never set foot in a muslim country, I can only speculate. The few muslims I know do not wear religious clothing during the week, and they seem ordinary people working to earn a living.

    I see today's mask wearing by non-muslims to be for the most part submission to peer pressure. Several here at PF have noted that, and I have spoken with many who feel the same way. They wear the mask so as to not offend others. I know more who wear the mask in order to keep a job.

    Some theorize that covering the face is basically covering up the individual identity. Facial recognition software seems to support that idea.

    I am not offended by people wearing masks these days, but given the body of knowledge regarding the efficacy of the mask, I must admit to being amused by so much mask wearing. I have long been a student of human behavior, why people do what they do. Maybe that comes from the fact that when Art Linkletter had a TV show on back when they were B&W televisions, his show was called People Are Funny. Maybe it stuck?

    Mask-wearing is a result of peer pressure, and the facts are that authorities acting in bad faith encourage the act, and complying makes it also a form of submission to authority.
     

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