Antisemitism: Subset-Superset Fallacy

Discussion in 'Race Relations' started by ibshambat, Jul 24, 2018.

  1. ibshambat

    ibshambat Banned

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    According to some people, the problems of the world are caused by the Jews. They appear to be of the impression that without the Jews the world would be a better place. Here's something to ponder: America has nearly 6 million Jews, Poland has about 800. And yet America, not Poland, is the greatest power in the world.

    One trick I've seen these people play is actually quite clever. They would take a wrongdoing that had Jewish participants and blame the whole thing on the Jews. They did it with slave trade, with Stalin's crimes, with human trafficking.

    The error that they are making is what is known in mathematics as the subset-superset fallacy. That some Jews are jerks does not mean either that all Jews are jerks or that all jerks are Jews. Most of these wrongdoings included both Jewish people and non-Jewish people. As for the Jews, they also include people such as my mother - who has never hurt anyone – and any number of great contributors, from Albert Einstein to Steven Spielberg to Donald Rumsfeld to Ayn Rand.

    That there were Jewish participants in a wrongdoing does not mean that the wrongdoing was authored by the Jews. Once again, most of these have had both Jewish and non-Jewish people. As for the Jewish people presently living, even in cases that there have been Jewish participants in wrongdoings, they have had nothing to do with it themselves. Many white people do not like being blamed for their ancestors' colonialism and slave trade. They need to lead by example and stop blaming contemporary Jews for the actions of Herod or Caiaphas or any other wrongdoer who happened to be a Jew.

    If the point is that some Jews are bad people, that point is correct. But to claim that all Jews are bad, or that without the Jews the world would be a better place, is ridiculous. I know many Jewish people of great character and great intellect, who very much do improve the world with their actions. And they most certainly contribute more than do people who spread obvious falsehoods.

    Are the Jews at the root of what's wrong with the world? Jews did not create the mafia or the inner city gangs. Jews did not invent the Taliban or Westboro Baptists. Jews did not cause global warming or gender war. Throughout humanity there have been many orders, and most of them had many things wrong with them. And most of these orders had no influence from the Jews. So if someone thinks that the world would be a better place without the Jews, they can look at Somalia, Pakistan and any number of places that have none to minimal Jewish influence and that are in much worse shape than any place with a significant Jewish presence.

    Whereas where Jews are not discriminated against, they do great things. Over 100 Nobel prize laureates are Jewish; which, for a small population, is a great achievement. And also great are their contributions to science, finance and entertainment. Jews have been the most highly contributing constituency to the Western civilization; and someone who actually believes in advancing the Western civilization will pay homage to the Jews.

    If you've been involved in the contemporary anti-Semitism: Cut your losses and do something productive. The legitimate aspects of your message – that not all Jews are good people – have been heard. But don't go around making ridiculous claims such as that all Jews are bad or that all bad people are Jews. And do not be under impression that the world would be a better place without the Jews. The Jews contribute vastly to the Western civilization and should be credited for what they do.
     
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  2. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    Also, they do not count how much Jews have done for Humankind -- like Jewish scientists.
     
  3. Brewskier

    Brewskier Well-Known Member

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    ..
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
  4. Brewskier

    Brewskier Well-Known Member

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    So you believe that the only reason the US is a greater power than Poland is because we have more Jews? Seriously? You realize Poland was devastated by WWII and was under the rule of Soviet communists up until fairly recently, right?

    Your entire argument is based on a contradiction. You’re telling us that Jews as a group should be credited for the positive accomplishments of some Jews, but Jews as a group are not to be blamed for the negative accomplishments of some Jews. You can’t have it both ways. Although I do find it interesting how you’re telling us that we need to “pay homage”. There’s a historical connotation there.

    I do have a few questions

    1) do you consider yourself to be superior to non-Jews? Your first point seems to suggest that. If so, can you explain?

    2) do you believe the country of Israel should be solely for the benefit of the Jewish people? That is, they should be free to discriminate against non-Jews when it comes to things like immigration, citizenship, etc?

    3) if the answer to #2 is yes, what reasons would you have to oppose a European homeland in Europe, where Europeans keep out non-Europeans in order to preserve their own nations and cultures?
     
  5. ibshambat

    ibshambat Banned

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    No, I am saying that if Jews were a destructive influence, a place that has many Jews will be doing worse than a place that has few Jews.

    No, there are good and bad Jews and non-Jews.

    Do Europeans actually want that? Apparently they want non-Europeans there, for example Germans wanted Turks there to do menial work. I also recall that there was a Dutch politician who got shot while advocating for exclusion of Muslims from Europe.
     
  6. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, Jewish contribution to Humankind and Science has been enormous.
     
  7. Brewskier

    Brewskier Well-Known Member

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    I think it’s silly to try and make that argument where the only variable is number of Jews. Societies are very complex.

    It’s interesting how you couldn’t answer either of my direct questions. Want to try again?
     

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