Arctic hits record low

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by sawyer, Mar 8, 2017.

  1. iamanonman

    iamanonman Well-Known Member

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    That's not true for every type of insulation though. A window allows solar radiation to enter an enclosed space. These energetic photons are then converted into sensible heat when they are absorbed by the contents of the enclosed space. However, this energy (now in the form of sensible heat) cannot as easily escape because a window is actually pretty effective at impeding heat loss via conduction and convection. In this case the insulator speeds up heat gain.
     
  2. _Inquisitor_

    _Inquisitor_ Well-Known Member

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    I would appreciate if you could comment on the objects discussed in a text and a context.

    In this case the insulator speeds up heat gain of the outside of the house if the Sun is inside of the house :)
    And what kind of insulation are windows at night? Its seems like all scientists you cannot see that in this world there are days and nights.

    But, but please answer why do not they make big windows out of some radiation permeable material like silica glass http://www.biocab.org/Experiment_on_Greenhouses__Effect.pdf let’s say 12’’ thick, fill them with 100% CO2 and let heat houses for free?

    And please answer another question, - are there any other quantified physical effects except for the 2 – ozone depletion by CFs and CO2 trapping heat which were are not used for useful purposes like building windows etc?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
  3. _Inquisitor_

    _Inquisitor_ Well-Known Member

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    If you don’t want to see obvious, I don’t know how we can give a constructive conversation, but I will give it couple more shots.

    Was not it obvious that using the word “net” and stating “if you are so stuck on doubting simple things” I intentionally gave you reflected radiation for now. If you don’t want to see obvious, I don’t know how we can give a constructive conversation, but I will give it couple more shots.

    Let me ask one more time:

    Do you agree that in our picture, (our energy budget if you will) The Earth receives energy only during the day ( positive net) and radiates it out only during the night (negative net)?

    Please read my questions and don’t answer to what was not stated in the context of the discussion. Did my question imposed that they were?


    What different climates? I thought it was Earth climate J.

    Do you agree that if water vapor is barrier for radiation it does not mean it is a barrier for the flow of heat?

    Do you agree that water vapor can be warmed up by radiation?

    Do agree that water warmed by radiation can emit heat by radiation to a colder body whatever it is?

    Do you agree that where ever there is an area with no barrier for radiation the more energy the area receives the more it gives out?

    Do you agree that the rule above is true for all area where radiation can even partially get through the barriers?

    Do you agree that where heat is not transferred through barriers by radiation it is transferred by convention and conduction through atmosphere up and down?

    If yes to the above, will heat transferred by convection up or down to any Thermodynamic body then will be radiated out that body to a colder body?


    What rule talking I talking about? Let me repeat: Do you agree that the rule that heat is received from the Sun during the day and given away during the night on the Earth is the same as for all planets?


    If yes to the above, has any of the planets been noticed to be warming?

    Do you agree that no planet is warming, whatever is a composition of it, whatever are the processes on it and in it, whatever is atmosphere or absence of thereof ?

    Was Earth said to be warming before scientists started claiming it started warming?

    One more time, should I make it all capital letters for you to see:


    Obviously I was meaning the budget in the question, the daily budget. Please read my questions and don’t answer to what was not stated in the context of the discussion.


    - Does a result of a discussion whether the void is necessarily infinite make any difference for the problem at hand?

    - If heat flows from the Sun which has thermodynamic parameters to the earth which has thermodynamic parameters during a day why all over suddenly the flow of the heat from the earth is another topic?

    - Would not the flow of the heat from the earth drastically change if the T was not your 2.7K but 270K?

    - What amount of heat transferred between 2 bodies is function of?

    You disagree that during the night heat is radiated not back to the Sun but to what you call "void". Will you tell me what body is it radiated to?
     
  4. iamanonman

    iamanonman Well-Known Member

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    Ok, sure. With the clarification I agree with this.

    Water vapor is an example of a radiation barrier. It is not homogeneous over the surface of the Earth. Deserts have less while the tropics have more. Therefore radiation barriers are not necessarily the same everywhere on Earth. At any rate if your implication is that we should be focusing on the Earth as whole and not trying to nick pick the nuances of this location and that then I agree.

    If water vapor acts as a radiation barrier then wouldn't it also prevent the flow of heat? What am I missing here?

    Yes to all of the above.

    The physics driving the processes are the same. Is that what you're asking? The effect this has can vary considerably depending on the composition of the plant.

    Now wait a second. Let's be precise here. Is Venus currently warming? No, at least we don't think so. Has Venus gone through a period of warming in the past? Yes. It must have. Venus is about 2x as far from the Sun as compared to Mercury. That means it is receiving about 25% of the solar radiation as Mercury is. Yet, Venus is still hotter than Mercury. Even nights on Venus are warmer than days on Mercury. This is even more impressive because Mercury's solar insolation periods last a really long time. Venus experienced a period of warming because the insulating properties of the greenhouse gases allowed (temporarily) more radiation to enter than was allowed to escape. This continued until a new equilibrium was achieved. Since thermal radiation is proportional to the 4th power of a body's temperature it only makes sense that the greenhouse effect cannot operate indefinitely. As it warms up it emits radiation at an ever increasing pace. Sooner or later the accumulation of greenhouse gases will slow down and the outgoing radiation will balance with the incoming radiation once again. Do you have an alternate theory that explains the temperatures of Mercury and Venus?

    Yes. If you lengthen our day by 2x then the amount of radiation we receive from the Sun will 2x as much as well...for a single day with a new definition.

    Well, I didn't think so. But you asked so...

    Whatever is out there to receive it. Stardust, a randomly wandering hydrogen atom, another planet, maybe even a black hole...I don't know. What ever happens to be out there that crosses paths with our outgoing photons. Maybe, just maybe, one of our photons doesn't intercept anything at all and it continues to red-shift as it makes its journey to the far reaches of the universe.
     
  5. _Inquisitor_

    _Inquisitor_ Well-Known Member

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    I hope I have quoted the only disagreements we have at this moment.
    If I did not please correct me.
    I will get back to you when I have time and pleasure.
    So far it has been a pleasure to have a conversation with you.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2017
  6. _Inquisitor_

    _Inquisitor_ Well-Known Member

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    Didn’t have a minute for PF. Ok, what did we have here? Do you still have the question:
    Or it is explained by all of the above?


    And before we can continue: is there any reason why you skipped these questions? :

    http://politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/arctic-hits-record-low.499198/page-18#post-1067309061
     

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