Are forced taxes theft.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by not2serious, Jul 17, 2018.

  1. not2serious

    not2serious Well-Known Member

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    We were in another topic about government, and this showed up as a drifting thread, so I thought it deserved it's own heading.

    What is theft? simple. The taking of good, service or life of others without their consent.

    Taxes do exactly that. Some one decides that they can tax you for someone else's benefit, and make a lot of money for themselves along the way in a government job.
     
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  2. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. One person taking another's stuff. Theft.
     
  3. raytri

    raytri Well-Known Member

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    No, in a democracy, taxes are not theft. Taxes are what we, the people, assess on ourselves to pay for the services we want from our government.

    By choosing to live in the United States, you consent to be taxed by it. By choosing to live in your state, you consent to be taxed by it.

    If our government were not elected, or you were not free to move around (or leave the country entirely), you might have a point. But as it stands, you don't.
     
  4. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Feel free to asses what you wish on yourself. Just don't asses it on others.
     
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  5. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    By choosing to live in my home I consent to what exactly??
     
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  6. Vernan89188

    Vernan89188 Well-Known Member

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    You think so?

    Didn't know when to stop digging your own grave did ya, so you started a new thread to do so?

    You are not improving your image...but we can tell it's quite clear you do not care.

    Think of it as paying rent...It's up to you to not live there if you choose. You are correct it's not your fault being born in a place that charges taxes.
     
  7. raytri

    raytri Well-Known Member

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    It's a democracy. You have the right to vote, and it is your elected representatives that assess the taxes. So it is we the people assessing it on ourselves. That includes you.

    By remaining in the country, you are consenting to be taxed.

    Surely you don't think you should be allowed to enjoy the services and benefits provided by taxation without having to pay for any of it?
     
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  8. raytri

    raytri Well-Known Member

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    By buying a house, you consent to pay property taxes on the house.

    By signing up for utilities, you consent to pay the taxes on those utilities.

    By going shopping, you consent to pay the sales taxes on your purchase.

    By choosing to do all this in the state you live in, you consent to be taxed by that state.

    By choosing to do all this in the United States, you consent to be taxed by the United States.

    If you disagree with specific taxes or the overall taxation level, you have three main options:

    1. Do not use the taxed item or service;
    2. Work to elect representatives whose views on taxes more closely match yours;
    3. Move.
     
  9. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    If you and others wish to enter into some sort of agreement then that's your business. If Joe doesn't want to be involved, then you can't draw Joe into your agreement, since he didn't agree to any such thing.
    If Joe stays in his home, he's not agreeing to anything. He's simply living where he lives.
    Perhaps Joe hasn't asked for any of these services and benefits. Did you ever ask Joe if he wanted these services and benefits?
     
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  10. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you understand what the term 'consent' means.
     
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  11. raytri

    raytri Well-Known Member

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    Joe was consulted through his right to vote, and always has the option to either move to a lower-tax area or not use the taxed item or service.
     
  12. raytri

    raytri Well-Known Member

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    Nope, I understand it just fine. You don't seem to understand that living in a particular area is a choice, and that choosing to live in a given area means consenting to the terms of living in that area, which includes the local taxation level.
     
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  13. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    No he wasn't. Joe had not say in the establishment of this voting system.
     
  14. raytri

    raytri Well-Known Member

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    Joe chooses to live in the area, and thus consents to the rules of that area, including the voting system.
     
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  15. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    So living in an area where there are lots of thieves and gangsters is a choice. Got it. Let's blame the victim.
     
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  16. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you live in Crips neighborhood, so you better pay up. So gangsta.
     
  17. raytri

    raytri Well-Known Member

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    We were talking about taxation. As long as you are free to move, deciding to live in a particular area is a choice. And choosing to live there means consenting to the rules of that area. You are free to try to change the rules, but you are not exempt from them.
     
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  18. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Yep, you're free to move out of the neighborhood in order to avoid having your knees broken. The crime gang is going to get their take as long as you live in an area they control.

    That sounds really ethical. I'm glad you explained it to me. So I can either flee or be subject to the crime gang. Got it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2018
  19. RedDirtWalker

    RedDirtWalker Well-Known Member

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    I'm fine paying taxes for the services I use like roads, fire department, police department, and military as examples. What I have a problem with is paying taxes for the services that someone else uses. That is were the theft part comes in.

    You are right that we have a choice to leave, but that is avoiding the question and not answering the question. By definition theft is taking something that doesn't belong to you without consent of the person, no matter where you are at. I will happily consent to the government taxing me for the services I use, but I do not consent to the government taxing me for the services of someone else.
     
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  20. raytri

    raytri Well-Known Member

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    *Shrug*. Your bad-faith arguments don't change anything. As long as you can choose where to live, deciding to live in a particular area is optional. And that area is free to impose basic rules for living there, such as laws and taxes.

    If you weren't free to leave, that would be different.

    If you didn't live in a representative democracy, that would be different.

    But you do, so your comparisons to street gangs are invalid.
     
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  21. Russell Hellein

    Russell Hellein Well-Known Member

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  22. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is seriously correct. None of us have approved the taxes we are charged.
     
  23. Vernan89188

    Vernan89188 Well-Known Member

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    You could fight back.

    Seems though your smart enough not to.

    So yea...In your crazy analogy, Its smarter to pay the mafia.
     
  24. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Ah, so Joe is free to flee from the area controlled by the gang. That's doesn't sound right to me. Why should this criminal gang exist in the first place? Why should Joe need to flee his home in order to avoid having his knees broken?
     
  25. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They really got to you. What teacher taught you that?
     

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