Are we looking at World War III?

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by Defender of Freedom, Sep 18, 2014.

  1. Defender of Freedom

    Defender of Freedom Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2013
    Messages:
    563
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    With the conflict in Ukraine, and Russia's involvement in it, it is becoming inevitable that Putin fully intends to 'reunite' the Soviet Union. Maybe not under communism, but fascism. This recent peace deal in Ukraine is only the kiss of death, and the US gets to be Neville Chamberlain. Putin is running through Hitler's diplomatic playbook like clockwork. He will take Ukraine and whether or not Europe and the US will stop him is in question. If we so happened to go to war with Russia, China would fight us and Japan as well. Iran would fight Israel along with the other Arab Nations, and North Korea would invade South Korea. It would not be good, not to mention that all the super powers at war have nuclear weapons. No nation would be free of the conflict or the outcome of it.

    What do you think? Can we stop them, or is it too late?
     
  2. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    34,639
    Likes Received:
    10,807
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't think anyone in the West has the will to stop him, but I just don't think he can get very far on his own.
     
  3. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Messages:
    20,847
    Likes Received:
    187
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The great contest: Russian inertia vs. western lack of will.
     
  4. Imnotreallyhere

    Imnotreallyhere Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,426
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Remind me of why we have to stop him. I just don't see the need to interfere all over the world. I don't see why it's up to us to defend Ukraine. As I interpret the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances, we are not committed militarily.

    Personally, I don't think it will come to shooting. I think Russia will steal Ukraine in much the same way as the US stole Texas. And with as little consequence.

    I don't think you're right about China. Russia and China have long-standing grievances against each other. I think China would remain neutral, or possibly fight Russia if it came to war.

    I think Israel and some (not all) of the Arabs would fight. The outcome is not in doubt, however. N. Korea has a long way to go before it can successfully invade S. Korea.
     
  5. Defender of Freedom

    Defender of Freedom Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2013
    Messages:
    563
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I with you that some international things are not our business, however, we cannot appease an entity as large as Russia, and allow it to bully our allies.

    I believe it will end up like Germany and Czechoslovakia. Ukraine agreed to give up its nuclear arsenal, in return we would protect them.

    Russia and China both just agreed that their economies would stop using the US dollar as their standard, that is not good for us at all. I believe that in the event of war, they would side with each other because both have grievances against the US. The enemy of my enemy is my friend as it were.

    I think North Korea could if US support was unavailable to the South Koreans.
     
  6. Imnotreallyhere

    Imnotreallyhere Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,426
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Russia may be large, but it is no longer a global power. This is a European problem. Let the Europeans solve it. I do not see nonintervention as appeasement. Russia may be able to claim Ukrainian territory as its own, but it cannot rule without the consent of 90+% of the people there. If Putin can get that kind of popular support, who are we to gainsay him?

    We guaranteed Ukraine's independence, then interfered in their elections. How are we different from Russia?
    Source:
    Http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/02/01/us-and-eu-brazen-intervention-in-ukraine


    One of the salient facts about US/China relations is that we owe them money. A war would give us a splendid chance to repudiate that debt, and fight China with a military that they paid for. I really can't see the Chinese opening themselves up to that loss of face.

    In the event of no war with China, US forces in the West Pacific would be more than capable of dealing with the army of N. Korea. After all, it is a third world nation.
     
  7. Clausewitz

    Clausewitz Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,306
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    38
    China will seize senkaku and Taiwan islands, and Japan and US will declare war.

    Iran won't fight Israel but Saudi Arabia and the GCC as Hezbollah declares war on Israel.

    And Islamists will wreck havoc in US as the nations intelligence efforts are shifted elsewhere.
     
  8. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    28,048
    Likes Received:
    9,055
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    One thing I can't figure; why doesn't the EU just invite RUSSIA to join the EU? They ARE a historically European country after all.

    In any case there won't be any war over it. The majority of the UKRAINIANS don't care if Russia takes the Ukraine, so I'm pretty certain nobody but the Republicans in the US are going to be bothered by it either. Nations are rapidly becoming passe, I'm expecting none will survive except nominally by 2025
     
  9. Clausewitz

    Clausewitz Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,306
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    38
    As far as I can tell the vast majority of Ukrainians want a unified and free country. Have you seen anything to the contrary?

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/05/08/ukraine-russia-crisis/8838949/
     
  10. fifthofnovember

    fifthofnovember Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2008
    Messages:
    8,782
    Likes Received:
    1,031
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The idea that this situation with the Ukraine means "Putin will inevitably try to reunite the USSR" sounds to me like a classic slippery slope fallacy. I think I would have to see him do more than one thing before I would call it a "pattern".
     
  11. Clausewitz

    Clausewitz Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,306
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    38
    I don't know...the following quote from Putin may highlight his mentality regarding the former Soviet Union

    Above all, we should acknowledge that the collapse of the Soviet Union was a major geopolitical disaster of the century. As for the Russian nation, it became a genuine drama. Tens of millions of our co-citizens and compatriots found themselves outside Russian territory. Moreover, the epidemic of disintegration infected Russia itself.

    http://archive.kremlin.ru/eng/speeches/2005/04/25/2031_type70029type82912_87086.shtml
     
  12. mihapiha

    mihapiha Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    998
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I would assume you didn't look yet into Ukraine's history. If you do look into it, you will find out that people like Nikita Sergejewitsch Chruschtschow just randomly added Russian territory to the Ukraine because they spend their youth there for example. Chruschtschow thought of it as a nice gesture and to help his former homeland. Because of the redrawing of the map you had as many people who were Russians who lived in the Ukraine as there were Ukrainians.

    These territories inevitably will go back to Russia, because there rightfully Russian territories. And the US and EU leaders know that, that's why their actions have been limited at best. The sanctions are in place really just to make the same face in front of their people in the EU and US.

    And you shouldn't blame Putin to have Russian interests in mind. In this case some Russians don't live in Russia, and he just tries to help them. Just like the US president would aid Americans outside the US...
     
  13. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    37,494
    Likes Received:
    10,408
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I think you've fallen for the hype WRT Russia.

    But yes, we're looking at WWIII. The US is at the center of it, fighting it in limited theaters all over the world, mostly in the Middle East.
     
  14. william walker

    william walker New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,289
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    To have WW3 the UK, Japan and Turkey would all have to switch sides and join with Iran, North Korea and Russia in attacking the US directly.

    However the US could pivot supporting China against Japan and North Korea. Supporting Greece, Italy, Poland, Germany and France against the UK, Russia and Turkey. If this would work is a different matter. It really all depends on them countries fighting the US because able to curtail their ship movements in the Mediterranean, Gulf, South and East China sea's. I think we can forget about any operation against the US proper or major operation in the Pacific or Atlantic Oceans. The UK would be the greatest their to the US, so that is where the US would put its resources first off. As the British would be invading Ireland, Norway and Denmark. While getting Holland and Belgium to be neutral. Britain would also take the Fareo Islands. At this point Britain has everything it wants manipulation over Norway and Denmark, Holland and Belgium neutral and control over Ireland and the Fareo Islands. So Britain would sue for peace with the US. At this point the US has won the war, it is over.
     
  15. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Messages:
    4,219
    Likes Received:
    526
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Putin is acting out of fear. Russia is heading for failed state status, and all he has left is promoting nationalist imperialism again. All the U.S. and the West have to do to collapse his leadership is simply keep the price of oil down below $106 a barrel or so and keep weaning Europe off of Russian natural gas, and he's toast.
     
  16. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    Messages:
    20,271
    Likes Received:
    7,723
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We are trying our hardest to start another world war. With the next economic collapse, which is inevitable, we could see ww3. How much do depressions contribute to large wars?
     
  17. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Messages:
    4,219
    Likes Received:
    526
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, we're not; we nothing to gain from it. You're thinking is backwards on that. It's the Putins and his counterparts around the world who want wars, and they see the decline in U.S. hegemony and the West in general as an opening. A President who has demonstrated the incompetence Obama's admin even has our 'allies' running around in the dark grasping for leverage and policy shifts. Wars break out in power vacuums and are a result of weakness in resistance to wannabe empire builders. If you want a WW III, then by all means do your level best to trash the U.S. and Europe's will to resist.
     
  18. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2014
    Messages:
    20,271
    Likes Received:
    7,723
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I agree, we have nothing to gain from it, and much to lose, at least the average American loses. Yet our actions, our polices are pro ww3. That is why I said what I voiced.

    Our actions, our policy, is that of an empire, controlled by oligarchs. If you think that won't encourage another huge war, you just are not thinking, except inside your own little conditioned box. Not an insult, most of us live in those boxes.
     
  19. xAWACr

    xAWACr Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    626
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Exactly what actions/ policies and how are they encouraging another war?
     
  20. jackson33

    jackson33 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,446
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Actually in my opinion, we're already well into WWIII, but unlike the first two it's pure economics and is being driven by high tech. To keep brief, all Russia or more likely Russia/China would need to do is cease or take control of all US Business in their Countries and drain American wealth simply be hacking into middle America's accounts with 10% accuracy. US Stocks would drop 75% in days, all the US could do is print money, which would cause a change in the accepted world currency and the "Great Depression" would seem like a dream world, comparatively. Thanks to US current policy (especially in the Middle East/Africa), few of the so called "Western Economies" would support the US and to prevent military warfare, would cooperate. The Western Pacific Nations, don't have and never again will have the will or power to fight traditional warfare.
     
  21. Cleisthenes.

    Cleisthenes. New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2014
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    In reply to someone that said: "why do we feel that we have to intervene all over the world".
    I agree with you about how it is not our problem, but at the same time I think we should help because it's RIGHT. These people cannot defend themselves and are about to lose their freedom, something Americans take for granted. They have no less of a right to freedom than we do. If you think that you are free just because you were born here, than your wrong because they are no different than you and deserve the same rights.
     
  22. Regular Joe

    Regular Joe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,758
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    48
    These guys who say that Putin is mimicking Hitler are missing just a few points. One huge one, in particular. Before Hitler started his moves, he had amassed the largest military in the world at that time. Putin is not even in the same solar system. I think an attempt is being made at world power, but not in the ways and places that we are accustomed to looking. That's why it's working.
     
  23. xAWACr

    xAWACr Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    626
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    18
    That is true of someone, some where in the world, every moment of every day. Do you propose to help ALL of them?

    In my experience, you can't 'give' people their freedom. If they are not strong enough to win it for themselves, they simply lose it again to the next two-bit dictator wannabe that comes along. But if you feel that strongly about it, you should talk to a recruiter.:salute:
     
  24. Strasser

    Strasser Banned

    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Messages:
    4,219
    Likes Received:
    526
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The Alliance and the U.S. left Iraq with all the tools necessary to become a modern democratic state. As soon as we left, the Iraqis immediately went back to the same old same old, and did so entirely on their own. They have nobody to blame but themselves. The same for most of the world. there are lots of things that can't be fixed by good intentions or wonderful slogans learned in universities or from hippies who grew up the Burbs and don't know squat about how the real world works.
     
  25. Regular Joe

    Regular Joe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,758
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I'm sad to agree. When I heard that the Iraqis threw down their weapons and ran away in the face of the ISIS attack, even though the Iraq military had them outnumbered significantly, I knew there was nothing at all that could be done for them. It is as though we had left them with enough canned food to last a lifetime, but they sold all of the can openers.
    People who haven't tried to help others in the past, only to find that the effort was for naught will never accept that there comes a point where there is nothing left to do but cut your losses.
    We wouldn't still return to the conflict unless our enlightened leaders believed that there is something to gain. What are they thinking, and why?
     

Share This Page