Are we pushing Russia to war?

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by JakeJ, Dec 28, 2020.

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Are we pushing Russia to war?

  1. We should use every means but WMDs to totally destroy Russia

    15.4%
  2. We are forcing Russia to engage in non-military counter economic warfare; political, hacking etc

    7.7%
  3. If we don't stop trying to destroy Russia it could lead to conventional warfare between us

    7.7%
  4. If we don't stop trying to destroy Russian and Russians it could lead to limited use of WMDs

    7.7%
  5. If we don't stop deliberately harming Russia pushing Russia down it could lead to open nuclear war

    15.4%
  6. We should increase sanctions and isolating Russia - and there's nothing Russia can do about it.

    7.7%
  7. The RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA! propaganda is to divert from looking at the real danger: CHINA

    38.5%
  8. The Cold War against the extinct USSR is too profitable to ever allow to end

    7.7%
  9. Russia remains the greatest danger against the USA so we must hold Russia down continuously

    15.4%
  10. We should stop trying to ruin Russia

    30.8%
  11. The US military industrial complex and warhawks perpetuate the Cold War for profit and power

    46.2%
  12. IDK/Other

    7.7%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Tejas

    Tejas Banned

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    .

    Paul Wolfowitz = Edomite

    Per the Bible, Edomites are contrary to all men.

    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2021
  2. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    What's wrong with that? Sounds like a very good idea to me. What problem do you have with it?
     
  3. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    I don't. Sounds good to me.
     
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  4. Flynn from Az

    Flynn from Az Well-Known Member

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    Umm. Because we are now back at the point of a Cold War. That’s my problem.In stead of of moving forward, we are taking two steps back. It doesn’t matter anyway. We are in decline, Russia is definitely in decline, and China will probably be the sole super power this century.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2021
  5. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    You and many others have a grossly exaggerated sense of Chinese power and capability.
     
  6. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    Based on Russia’s history I’m 1000% okay with having them surrounded. They have murdered all over the globe, they have killed their own citizens, they are a communist scum nation. Putin has murdered political foes, locked them up, backed Syria while they gassed their own citizens. They themselves have killed hundreds of thousands of their own citizens when they denounced religion in the name of Marxism under Stalin.

    that trash country deserves no breathing room and I support all sanctions and all military establishments around them.
     
  7. Flynn from Az

    Flynn from Az Well-Known Member

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    I’m looking at our own country’s ineptitude.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2021
  8. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    None of the above.

    The Putin regime loves to paint the US and NATO as dire threats, though, because it helps rally the domestic audience around Tsar Putin, and also because it serves as pro-Russian, anti-establishment propaganda for western audiences.
     
  9. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    One thing in warfare that historically the United States has done rather well is large scale set piece military conflicts.
     
  10. Flynn from Az

    Flynn from Az Well-Known Member

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    That’s not the world we live in today. We have spent 20 years fighting a war with no discernible path to victory, only to lose to half literate goat herders, and religious zealots.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2021
  11. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    That is no indicator of future conflict though. In order to seize Taiwan, China must win a straight up set piece conflict.
     
  12. Flynn from Az

    Flynn from Az Well-Known Member

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    Nobody is going to go to war with China, over Taiwan. They’re literally on their own.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2021
  13. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    The U.S. cannot afford diplomatically, economically, or militarily to simply allow mainland China to seize Taiwan.
     
  14. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    We actually have no way to stop it.
     
  15. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Why do you say that?
     
  16. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Well here's one version:

    'We're going to lose fast': U.S. Air Force held a war game that started with a Chinese biological attack


    Really, maybe it's just the limits of my imagination, but it's easy for me to think of ways that China could win (preventing us from stopping their invasion of Taiwan), but it's a lot harder to think of ways that the US could win, starting with the most basic: Would the nation unite to defend Taiwan? I'd say no way.
     
  17. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Americans can, have, and will unite to face a foreign enemy. They've done it many times so far.
     
  18. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    ?

    Does Vietnam right a bell? Iraq?
     
  19. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    The U.S. was united during the early years of both Vietnam and Iraq. It was only after the conflicts drug on that unity suffered.
    .
    Defeat the Chinese in less than a year and we shouldn't have too much trouble with national unity
     
  20. Wynn Sayer

    Wynn Sayer Newly Registered

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    That's a real mess over there. Obama was arming and funding ISIS. Assad just wants his citizens safe, you have Turkey (an alleged US ally) over there trying to invade.

    I think the US should sanction Turkey for any aggression over the Syrian border.

    I'm not even sure why Turkey is an ally. It doesn't make sense and Erdogan has been openly hostile to our military in Turkey.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2021
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  21. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    We have differing memories of that. 1968 was aflame precisely because of Vietnam, and the "unity" on Iraq didn't last more than a few months. Now of course, the country is far more divided than it has since the civil war, so I have zero confidence that the US could be united enough to pull off a military operation of any length against China. However my real issue is that even if the US was united, we would still lose.
     
  22. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure how we can even tolerate being in NATO with Turkey.
     
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  23. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    By 1968, the Vietnam War had gone on for three or four years.

    Why you think the U.S. would lose in beyond me. If proximity to a war zone were a decisive factor, the Falklands would be called the Malvinas now.
     
  24. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Well no one here was discussing proximity to a war zone. I've no idea why you brought that up. My post was about the country not being able to be united to prosecute a war.
     
  25. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    I figured you had other reasons for believing the U.S. would lose a war with mainland China over Taiwan.
     

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