Are you sure you're NOT a Socialist?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Feb 29, 2020.

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  1. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    On every election cycle, the word "socialism" is thrown around to spook away voters. Obama was a socialist, so was Hillary, Kerry, Gore,... But it only spooks people who don't know what the word means.

    I have listed the major goals of Socialism in today's America. Find out if you agree with any of them. The way in which these goals are achieved varies, but every main-stream Democrat, from Biden supporters to Sanders supporters, agree with the large majority of them.

    Republicans who are now distanced from their party because Trump took it away from conservatives, are welcome to the Democratic Party. But you also need to know what all mainstream Democratic candidates (Buttigieg, Biden, Sanders, Warren, Steyer, Klobuchar) I exclude Bloomberg and Gabbard because... I'm not sure what they stand for.

    Write your scores.

    Many might not agree with much of this but, if they read it, they can finally understand what the word "socialism" means.

    1- Healthcare
    1a- Do you believe that healthcare is a right (i.e. that it should be subsidized to make it available to everybody at an affordable cost according to each person's income level)?
    (1 point if yes)

    1b- Do you believe that people (including children) who can't afford healthcare should just... be left on their own to die?
    (1 point if no)

    1c- Do you believe that people (including children) who have pre-existing conditions should be deprived (partially or entirely) of healthcare insurance?
    (1 point if no)

    1d- Do you believe that it's OK ("it's their problem, and not a problem in which society should intervene") if some families go bankrupt because one of them suffers a disease that is particularly expensive to treat?
    (1 point if no)

    2- Worker rights
    2a- Do you believe workers should have the right to form unions?
    (1 point if yes)

    2b- Do you believe that women should be paid the same as men for equal work?
    (1 point if yes)

    2c- Do you believe that all Americans who have a full time job should earn at least a living wage.
    (1 point if yes)

    3- Civil Rights
    3a- Do you believe that black people who have been unable to climb in the social ladder due in part to this nation's history of racism should be given special considerations so they can break the poverty cycle?
    (1 point if yes)

    3b- Do you believe that the government, and not the woman, should be the one to decide whether or not she should have an abortion?
    (1 point if no)

    3c- Do you believe gay marriage should be allowed and have the same legal rights as traditional marriage?
    (1 point if yes)

    4- Immigraton
    4a- Do you believe that there should be a national effort to deport all undocumented aliens, including those who have committed no crimes while in this country?
    (1 point if no)

    4b- Do you believe that people who were brought in illegally as children, through no fault of their own and grew up knowing no other country (dreamers) should be among the first to deport?
    (1 point if no)

    4c - Do you believe that we people who are in dire circumstances (including fear for their life) for themselves and their children should be granted refugee status?
    (1 point if yes)

    4d- Do you believe that is it morally admissible to separate children from their parents with no plan to ever reunite them again, as a policy to discourage refugees from coming to the U.S.?
    (1 point if no)

    5- Education
    5a- Do you believe that all children should have free pre-K to 12 education?
    (1 point if yes)

    5b- Do you believe that a more educated population is beneficial to the country and therefore the government should help more people become obtain a higher education?
    (1 point if yes)

    6- Environment
    6a- Do you believe that there is sufficient Scientific evidence of Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW)? (i.e.: that the Earth surface temperature is rising to unhealthy levels a a result of human activity)
    (1 point if yes)

    6b- Do you believe that AGW will produce very negative consequences to our economy, our health and out overall living standard?
    (1 point if yes)

    6c- Do you believe that the government should play an important role in controlling and/or mitigating the effects of AGW?
    (1 point if yes)

    6d- Do you believe that, when in conflict, dealing with AGW (mitigation) is more important than producing more profits for corporations to distribute to their owners?
    (1 point if yes)

    7- Guns
    7a- Do you believe that the individual "right" to own guns should have limits based on any of the following conditions: certain mental illnesses, conviction for violent crimes, the ability to operate them, ?
    (1 point if yes)

    7b- Do you believe that, as established in the Heller Supreme Court decision, the sale of so called "military-style guns" or "assault weapons", should be illegal?,
    (1 point if yes)

    8- Wealth and corporations
    8a- Should corporations have the same rights as people?
    (1 point if no)

    8b- Do you believe that the participation of "We The People" in electing government officials is fundamental to keeping the democratic Republic envisioned by our forefathers?
    (1 point if yes)

    8c- Do you believe that people with more money should have a greater weight on who is elected?
    (1 point if no)

    8d- Should there be a "safety net" that allows people to get back on their feet when they face financial bottom, so they can get back up on their feet?

    If you scored:
    <10: You have no business voting for a Democrat
    10-15: You are more than welcome to vote for a Democrat to stop Trump's abuses. But be mindful that not everything the next government does will be to your licking.
    15-20: Maybe you knew this, maybe you didn't: but you're a full-fledged Socialist.
    20-25: Приветствую вас, товарищи! (Greetings, comrade!)
    26: Well done! I envy you. Not even Bernie Sanders would achieve this score.

    Important: I may have missed something. But if there is anything here that you "have been told" a socialist believes, do include a quote of Democrats supporting it. In other words, don't just say something like "Socialists believe in nationalizing the NFL". Accompany your claim with a quote advocating for such a thing. If you are unable to produce a quote, that means you heard it from Rush or Hannity or... one of those clowns who don't know what they're talking about. They made it up, so ... don't bother.
     
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  2. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

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    I’m not a socialist. I lot of what you asked has nothing to do with socialism though.
     
  3. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Many, if no most of the questions cannot be answered with a simple yes or no. I could answer most of them yes or no depending on the circumstances.
     
  4. ArchStanton

    ArchStanton Banned

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    Worst thread ever. :thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

    You don't have a right to jackshit if someone else has to pay for it (in whole or in part). Government pays for nothing, taxpayers do.
     
  5. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    1. Health Care is not a right. This is entirely distinct from the question of whether or not the government should aid the poor and unfortunate.

    1b. A nasty little straw man.

    Please note most of the rest has almost nothing to do with socialism.
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
  6. Rush_is_Right

    Rush_is_Right Well-Known Member

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    Socialism, because only the U.S. knows how to do it right.
     
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  7. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Great! Because that's what Democrats believe. And the reason why we are tagged by the right as Socialists.
     
  8. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Nice list of false choices..
     
  9. Aquarius

    Aquarius Well-Known Member

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    We already have an overpopulation and environment issue. Keeping people alive and giving incentive to breed is immoral
     
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  10. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    No health care is not a right.

    No one has the right to service from anyone.

    There are already tons of provisions for the poor to recieve actual health care.
    Health insurance is a very very very different thing than receiving health care.

    Yes of course it's ok to go bankrupt due to health care bills.. the only one getting screwed there is the health care provider who isn't getting paid for the work they did.

    Workers do have the right to form unions and employers have the right to fire them.
    All unions do is extort employers and buy votes. They are mostly bad organizations.

    Women should get paid equal pay for equal productivity. Not the same pay for the same position.

    All Americans workers should recieve the pay they agreed to work for when they voluntarily took the job. Anything beyond that is the employers choice.

    No one is currently being held back because of their skin pigmentation. People are holding themselves back by not living beyond the stereotypes of their situations.

    Should the government let a woman kill her baby?

    Should the government force people to be involved with activities that violate their religious first ammendment rights?

    It's insane not to deport illegals.

    Yawn. Im sorry. I'm tired of your spun out of whack questions, goodnight.
     
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  11. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

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    That’s not why you are tagged as socialist
     
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  12. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Why do you think?
     
  13. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

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    Socialism is when the govt owns and operates the means of production. The front runner of your party is a socialist
     
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  14. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Economic socialism would prolly be easier to achieve if you stopped trying to ram through unrelated crap like gun control and immigration as part of it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
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  15. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    1, no healthcare is not a right it can't be all right because rights are negative in nature meaning you don't have the right to something that someone else has to produce.

    0pt
    1b that's a loaded question.

    1c who's depriving them?

    1d another loaded question.

    2, yes, first amendment. However no government intervention should exist.

    So, maybe one point.

    2b, what do you mean?

    2c, that's up to them, I don't think government should intervene so I'm going to take that as a no.

    0 pt

    3a, I don't believe black people in the current day I've been unable to climb the corporate ladder because of racism in the past so this is another loaded question I have to accept your premise that racism in the past halts corporate climbing among black people today and I don't.

    3b, no
    1 pt

    3c I don't think anybody should have special rights or privileges because of their marriage status.

    So on the points I'm not sure

    4a absolutely and emphatically yes.

    0 pt

    4b I think they should be offered the opportunity to stay if they decide to serve the country.

    As far as what order they are deported in I couldn't care less.

    So ridiculous question.

    4d absolutely yes. You don't get to get away with crime because you drugged your child along with you.

    0 pt

    5a nothing is free so no. You should reword this question to say at no cost to them.

    0 pt

    5b no

    0pt

    6a no I don't believe that it's raising to unhealthy levels. Ten thousand years from now maybe.

    I do accept that there is a man-made station the environment.

    0.5 pt

    6b not for thousands of years .

    0 pt

    6c absolutely not

    0pt

    6d I know you can't afford to deal with it if you don't make money.

    0 pt

    7a mental illness is no and "the ability to operate them" no. mentally and physically handicapped people should not be made into second-class citizens.

    0pt

    7b absolutely not military style gun means nothing.

    0pt

    8a yes

    8b confusing question what do you mean by We the People? The people who choose to vote or everyone?

    I think if you choose not to vote you made a good choice.

    8c absolutely not

    1pt

    8d, provided by the government or by the community?

    There's a lot of loaded questions in this so what did I get five points.

    Orson Welles said that socialism is a meaningless word, as well as fascism and democracy. I agree with him on that. Because everybody defines it their own way therefore it has no real meaning.

    It seems to be more of just an edgy label these days,. people not edgy enough to call themselves communist.
     
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  16. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    I think the idea is to try and make socialism as meaningless as possible.

    I would say yes socialist has no business running as a Democrat but the overton window shifts end in order to be left all you have left is the far left.
     
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  17. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    In other words you have no real argument
     
  18. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You wasted an incredible amount of time on a survey to try and prove your point (and I got no points). You relegate power to a nanny state government that should be taken on by individuals responsibilities and faith based organizations.
     
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  19. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If they are going to impose Socialism on us, first they need to procure more votes, (illegal immigration), then they need to disarm us so they can control us far more easily. It just makes sense.
     
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  20. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    Because no sick child has ever been left on the street to die in a socialist country, right?
     
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  21. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I scored a 2.

    I love the question about equal pay for equal work. For example, if you had two air traffic controllers:

    1) a man with 35 years experience, with stellar annual reviews and twice named "national air traffic controller of the year", earning $120,000 per year.

    2) a woman with 5 years experience, with average annual reviews, earning $60,000 per year.

    Libs in government say this woman is making 50% of what her male counterpart is making and that's outrageous! They're doing the exact same job!

    Are the salaries fair? Or is this a situation where government needs to step in and equalize pay?
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
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  22. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There can be no such thing as a right to a service that someone else is compelled provide because people have a right to refuse to provide a service. Nor can someone be compelled to receive a service that they absolutely need in order to maintain such a right. I.E. you can't force a patient to eat a certain diet that would impact the quality of their health.

    I believe that everyone on the planet dies as a result of the inability to afford the cost of the intervention that would be necessary to keep them alive. If we directed all of the resources of the entire planet to keeping a specific individual alive, we could do that, but then we couldn't afford to keep the person standing next to them alive.

    I believe that health care and health care insurance are two different things. Insurance is a way to defer the risk of a liability. It is not a way to defer the cost of medical care. In fact, it actually inflates the cost of care.

    Bankruptcy is a legal way to wipe out the debt you owe to your creditors. Should we instead force them to pay off the debt for the rest of their lives?

    I do. But I don't believe this has anything to do with socialism. Your question should be, do you believe government has the right to regulate worker unions, and the answer to that question is no.

    I do. But again, I don't believe this has anything to do with socialism. Your question should be, do you believe the government has the right to regulate the average wage across all firms on the basis of sex, and the answer to that question is no.

    I believe that people should work for whatever amount they want to work for. Wage is a contract between an employer and an employee.

    I believe that the generalization that a person's social status has something to do with their skin color is racist, and that such a policy inherently demeans the hard work of all races.

    Socialist governments decide when woman should have an abortion, not the woman. It's part of that right to health care thing. Not sure why this question adds a point.

    Socialism and gay rights have had quite the rocky history. Of course nothing about socialism has anything structurally to do with who you want to have sex with. It does impose itself upon people's personal lives, which in itself can only have a negative impact on those that disagree with that imposition. It doesn't matter if you're for it or against it. The outcome will saw back and forth at the whim of the people in charge.

    Everyone entering the country needs to be appropriately accounted for. If that can happen without deportation great. If not the country has an obligation to maintain its border. A great example of the problems that can arise from a country with low control of its border is playing out as a function of the Corona virus as we speak. Do you believe that Corona infected immigrants should be currently flooding across the border unchecked seeking medical care?

    I believe anecdotes fail to change the reason for having borders.

    This is not a condition that is inherent to socialist governments. In fact many of your questions so far have had little to do with socialism.

    I have been a foster parent for more than 15 years. There are lots of morally admissible reasons to separate children from their parents. Dragging children across miles of desert, or stuffing a child in the wheel well of a drug lord's pickup truck are among them. The illegal pathway into America is not at all a safe pathway for anyone, let alone a child.

    Nothing is free. Anything that takes effort to produce has a cost. What you mean to ask is, "do you believe that the cost of child education should be paid for by society"

    Government subsidy of education increases the cost of education. Government does not subsidize the cost of televisions. Everyone has one.

    Sheesh. I just scrolled to see how much more of this nonsense there is. I'm tapping out.
     
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  23. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Quote him advocating for the government owning and operating the means of production.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
  24. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is no metric to control for hours worked.
    There is no metric to control for experience.
    There is no metric to control for quality.
    There is no metric to control for age.
    There is no metric to control for the different choices made between men and woman. <----this is the big one.

    There aren't many woman tethered to the deck of a oil rig 100 miles out to sea. There aren't many turning wrenches, burning welding rods, making chips on a mill, or wiring up electrical panels. Men and woman choose different professions, and those different choices have an impact on the wage they earn.
     
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  25. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ahh. Not my socialism.

    Gotta love the long and illustrious history of denying other people's socialism. I'll bet your socialism is the real socialism, right?
     
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