Argentina abortion: Senate approves legalisation in historic decision

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by Bowerbird, Dec 31, 2020.

  1. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-55475036

    This is less than one year after the well published story of the 11 year old girl denied abortion in Argentina

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-47400819

    it mimics what happened in Ireland after the death of Savita Halappanavar

    and I have to ask - does the right to body autonomy rely on some woman being harmed or killed?
     
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  2. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why 14 weeks? Why not 8 weeks?

    I think there's something in the popular public consciousness that sees all abortion as the same, and no real difference between 8 and 14 weeks.


    Can we start having a conversation about bumping abortion down to 14 weeks in the US and Australia ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2020
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  3. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    How about we have a conversation about adopting the Canadian way of dealing with abortion as a PRIVATE matter between a woman and her doctor only?
     
  4. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Why eight weeks? And why legislate? The vast majority of abortions occur within the first eight weeks in any event

    upload_2020-12-31_19-54-48.png

    What will ensure this occurs much much better than legislation is making abortion easily accessible and free. If you make LARCs free as well it reduces the number of abortions. Basically no one but an idiot would prefer to have an abortion over having either an implant or another easily reversible procedure
     
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  5. fiddlerdave

    fiddlerdave Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How about having a conversation about bumping women into full citizenship so they themselves can decide what they choose to do with their OWN bodies until a fetus becomes viable to live in its own?

    Our "freedom fighters" want to be allowed to spew deadly infection diseases to kill the public with abandon, but the same people want to control women's choices in private.

    Go figger!
     
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  6. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    You have got to be kidding you want to take Big Government and Big Judiciary and Big Fo Fum Fox Fake News out of a personal decision?

    I would add that the conversation should be between a woman, her god or God ( if she has one), and her doctor. If she is married she better have consulted with her husband don't you think?
     
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  7. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    Totally hypocritical they be!
     
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  8. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    No, she is not obligated to inform her spouse but has the OPTION to do so should SHE decide that she wants his advice on the matter.

    As far as the deity aspect goes that too falls under the concept of PRIVACY.

    Defanging the fundamentalists in government, judiciary and the rightwing disinformation media would be a POSITIVE as far as women are concerned.
     
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  9. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    We can agree to disagree on consultation with her husband and I am saying consultion not veto power for him.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2020
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  10. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    What if he is wife beater?

    MUST she still consult him KNOWING that he will physically abuse her when she tells him?
     
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  11. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Consultation is fine but meaningless...a husband cannot force his wife to gestate...….. or abort.
     
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  12. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    :applause::applause::applause:

    I agree!


    Some of these people find wearing a mask too INCONVENIENT, too hard and beyond their capabilities even to save other's lives.....but think 9 months pregnancy is a piece of cake and women should be forced to undergo it....
     
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  13. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    It’s a necessary evil. Just like drugs.
    You outlaw this procedure and we will have women doing these abortions in home settings using questionable doctors and tools.
    I have 2 kids. Was watching pregnancy process from the day I found out my wife was pregnant to the day of birth. I would not want my wife to do an abortion unless there are major abnormalities with the fetus. So, I am against abortions, but at the same time I’m against making the procedure illegal as that would result in unnecessary deaths or mutilation of women at child-bearing age.
    While I would not support restrictions on abortions, I’d support some government program that offers women to pay hospital bills if they opt to carry the baby to term (or at least long enough for the fetus to have a real chance to survive outside, so after about 23 weeks), and financial assistance for child adoption, something that I’ve heard can cost $20,000. So, instead of banning abortions, why not make it easier and cheaper to adopt babies? We could put some program in place where women who want to abort are given another option - wait till 25-30 weeks, do a c-section, let the woman go after it (obviously after she recovers), and hand the custody of the newborn child to those who want to adopt them. The government could also help pay for care of the fetus that was taken out of the mother prematurely.

    The current set up is not very logical - anyone in any financial situation can have a baby, even if the parent is not truly interested in caring for the kid, or not capable. At the same time people who want to raise a child but can’t must go through a legal nightmare, which is expensive, and if they want to get a baby from a mother they know they’ll also pay the medical bills. Why not simplify it - if a couple, or a single individual, earns enough to support the baby then why not have the government and community let the parents who don’t want their kids to hand them over to people who do want them with minimal financial pain?
     
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  14. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Uh, ya, and it would destroy women's basic human right of bodily autonomy...

    a real big deal since it makes women slaves with NO rights...
     
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  15. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    Good point, actually very good point. Well let "us" say morally it is recommended she consult with her husband is that is safe. Now if hubby is a wife beater one hopes that she can divorce the scum before hubby kills her.
     
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  16. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    Nor force her to carry on with the pregnancy.
     
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  17. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    FoxHastings said:
    Consultation is fine but meaningless...a husband cannot force his wife to gestate...….. or abort.


    That's what I posted....

    ..and she isn't "morally" required to do anything..
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2020
  18. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    How about a program that prevents unwanted pregnancy in the first place? Make LARCS affordable or free

    Free counselling for women and young men

    free “morning after pills

    Free “medical” abortions that can only take place in the first six to eight weeks
     
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  19. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    In an optimal relationship there would naturally be consultation however we, as in "us", do NOT have any "moral" right to dictate to women what they MUST do as far their PERSONAL reproductive decisions are concerned.

    If it were up to me wife beaters would be castrated in order to reduce their testosterone levels that fuel their abnormal behavior but I don't get to make those decisions.
     
  20. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    Yep, I’d support all of that too.
     
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  21. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    Sadly I do not get to make some excellent decisions either. Castration is an excellent tool to reduce the chances that a scum bag will pass along his DNA. Same preventative action should be employed for rapists, pedophiles, and traitors as in those who give Russia secret information.
    We can add on China, NortKor and others as we move forward.
     
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  22. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Over too quick

    They should be made to tie it in a knot
     
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  23. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    or 26 weeks

    http://www.slate.com/id/2120872/
    "a member of President Bush's Council on Bioethics, describes in his book The Ethical Brain, current neurology suggests that a fetus doesn't possess enough neural structure to harbor consciousness until about 26 weeks, when it first seems to react to pain. Before that, the fetal neural structure is about as sophisticated as that of a sea slug and its EEG as flat and unorganized as that of someone brain-dead."
     
  24. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    What some are not seeing are the implications of this. Argentina is the birthplace of the current Pope and about as staunchly catholic as they come. I am hoping that this will lead the way for other South American countries to also review abortion legislation. Particularly in countries here the Zika virus has led to a worrying rise in children with microcephaly
     
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  25. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As far as I know in no country is it a matter purely for the woman and the doctor. There is always a limit on when you can abort.
     

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