Article In Saudi Daily: U.S. Planned, Carried Out 9/11 Attacks

Discussion in '9/11' started by phoenyx, Jun 19, 2016.

  1. phoenyx

    phoenyx New Member

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    Now that a good amount of politicians in the U.S. are considering allowing U.S. families of 9/11 victims the chance to sue the Saudi Government for 9/11, one Saudi Daily has allowed the publication of a story that points the blame for 9/11 on the U.S. itself, and goes on to say that they have successful invaded 2 countries already based on. Here's the summary of the article:

    **On the eve of President Obama's April 2016 visit to Saudi Arabia, the U.S. Congress began debating the Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act (JASTA), that would, inter alia, allow the families of victims of the September 11 attacks to sue the Saudi government for damages. Also in April 2016, the New York Times published that a 2002 congressional inquiry into the 9/11 attacks had found that Saudi officials living in the United States at the time had a hand in the plot. The commission's conclusions, said the paper, were specified in a report that has not been released publicly.[1]

    The JASTA bill, which was passed by the Senate on May 17, 2016, triggered fury in Saudi Arabia, expressed both in statements by the Saudi foreign minister and in scathing attacks on the U.S. in the Saudi press.[2] On April 28, 2016, the London-based Saudi daily Al-Hayat published an exceptionally harsh article on this topic by Saudi legal expert Katib Al-Shammari, who argued that the U.S. itself had planned and carried out 9/11, while placing the blame on a shifting series of others – first Al-Qaeda and the Taliban, then Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq, and now Saudi Arabia. He wrote that American threats to reveal documents that supposedly point to Saudi involvement in 9/11 are part of standard U.S. policy of exposing archival documents to use as leverage against various countries – which he calls "victory by means of archives."
    **

    Excerpts of the article can be seen here:
    Article In Saudi Daily: U.S. Planned, Carried Out 9/11 Attacks – But Blames Others For Them | Middle East Media Research Institute

    While I definitely think the article has merit, I also can't help but think that the U.S. beginning to shift more of the blame of 9/11 onto Saudi Arabia may well have something to do with the timing of its release. What do others here think?
     
  2. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    It's difficult to make heads or tails about the Saudi involvement, if any, because there's so much they're hiding from us and constantly feeding us a fairy tale version of what happened. But the mentality and propaganda spewed by the US government and its puppet MSM is always centered on exceptionalism, that the US can and does no wrong. Even Obama's statement when the US government is caught red handed is tempered (i.e. "we tortured some folks"). No, the US government (CIA and others) and its hired mercenaries (e.g. Blackwater and others) tortured and murdered many "folks". Some were tortured into signing "confessions" they were not allowed to read and that was used as a key part of the 9/11 Commission Report. I sure hope the 9/11 families' lawsuit against the Saudis opens up a giant can of worms if it actually manages to get past Obama's threat to veto. I'm not very optimistic on that though, the US government must maintain the OCT fairy tale, its agenda relies on it.
     
  3. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    This crap is from MEMRI.......
     
  4. Shinebox

    Shinebox Well-Known Member

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    come on Phoenyx ... you are smarter than this ...
     
  5. phoenyx

    phoenyx New Member

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    I strongly believe that the truth will eventually come out. The only thing I'm really not sure on is when.

    - - - Updated - - -

    What do you find objectionable about the Middle East Media Research Institute? Furthermore, they only translated what was in a Saudi Daily, they didn't come up with it themselves...

    - - - Updated - - -

    What is it about the OP that you don't find to be 'smart'?
     
  6. PARTIZAN1

    PARTIZAN1 Well-Known Member

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    Just wait until Our.Dear .Leader Trump. takes the Royal throne of the Land of the Free Again the Saudis will be sorry they were born.
     
  7. phoenyx

    phoenyx New Member

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    I think I should point something out here; while I do believe that some Saudi officials played a part in aiding and abetting certain individuals later accused of being some of the 9/11 hijackers, this doesn't mean that those men actually hijacked anything. I believe that Osama bin Laden had little if anything to do with 9/11 and while the Saudi officials do look like they played a part in 9/11, it was only to sustain some of the "hijacker" patsies before they were unceremoniously offed in some cases. Some of the alleged hijackers were later scrubbed from the official list, and 7 of those on the final list have since been found to be alive and well and denying any involvement with 9/11:

    At Least 7 of the 9/11 Hijackers are Still Alive | WhatReallyHappened.com
     
  8. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Nope.. The Saudis had absolutely nothing to gain by the 9-11 attack.

    Hopefully Obama will release the 28 redacted pages soon.
     
  9. phoenyx

    phoenyx New Member

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    We can all hope that Obama changes his mind about his veto, yes. Or, failing that, that congress has enough votes to override his veto. That being said, those 28 pages are just the tip of the iceberg:
    FBI Holds 80,000 Pages of Secret Documents on Saudi-9/11 Links | Global Research

    As to your contention that the Saudis had nothing to gain by the 9-11 attack, I would agree if the intent had always been to blame the Saudis for the event. However, both the Bush -and- Obama Administrations have shielded Saudis from having Saudi officials from being investigated. Also, the Saudis may have been told that starting a "war on terror" would help the U.S. wage war against its political enemies, such as Iran. Now that it looks like momentum is building to finally put the blame on Saudi Arabia itself, though, they may have decided that 2 can play the blame game, and when it comes to the evidence, it would implicate certain officials within the Bush administration much more then it would Saudi officials.
     
  10. Shinebox

    Shinebox Well-Known Member

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    read your own Memri link ... no reason or focus in any of it ... Iran? Iraq? Saudi? ...
     
  11. phoenyx

    phoenyx New Member

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    Well, sure, if you put it like -that- it makes no sense at all :p. Yes, it mentioned all 3 of those countries, but I think putting it in context would help. I'll quote an excerpt of the article:

    **"On September 11, the U.S. attained several victories at the same time, that [even] the hawks [who were at that time] in the White House could not have imagined. Some of them can be enumerated as follows:
    "1. The U.S. created, in public opinion, an obscure enemy – terrorism – which became what American presidents blamed for all their mistakes, and also became the sole motivation for any dirty operation that American politicians and military figures desire to carry out in any country. [The] terrorism [label] was applied to Muslims, and specifically to Saudi Arabia.
    "2. Utilizing this incident [9/11], the U.S. launched a new age of global armament. Everyone wanted to acquire all kinds of weapons to defend themselves and at the same time battle the obscure enemy, terrorism – [even though] up to this very moment we do not know the essence of this terrorism of which the U.S. speaks, except [to say that] that it is Islamic...
    "3. The U.S. made the American people choose from two bad options: either live peacefully [but] remain exposed to the danger of death [by terrorism] at any moment, or starve in safety, because [the country's budget will be spent on sending] the Marines even as far as Mars to defend you.
    "Lo and behold, today, we see these archives revealed before us: A New York court accuses the Iranian regime of responsibility for 9/11, and we [also] see a bill [in Congress] accusing Saudi Arabia of being behind it [sic]. This is after the previous Iraqi regime was accused of being behind it. Al-Qaeda and the Taliban were also blamed for it, and we do not know who [will be blamed] tomorrow! But [whoever it is], we will not be surprised at all, since this is the essence of how the American archives, that are civilized and respect freedoms and democracy, operate.
    "The nature of the U.S. is that it cannot exist without an enemy... [For example,] after a period during which it did not fight anyone [i.e. following World War II], the U.S. created a new kind of war – the Cold War... Then, when the Soviet era ended, after we Muslims helped the religions and fought Communism on their [the Americans'] behalf, they began to see Muslims as their new enemy! The U.S. saw a need for creating a new enemy – and planned, organized, and carried this out [i.e. blamed Muslims for terrorism]. This will never end until it [the U.S.] accomplishes the goals it has set for itself.
    **

    I'm fairly sure the article is exaggerating in an attempt at humour- no one has ever accused the U.S. of going to Mars to defend Americans against terrorism as far as I know. But I think it's spot on in the never ending trend of U.S. Administrations since 9/11 to go after various countries in its never ending "War on Terror", frequently trying to pin the blame of 9/11 to the feet of whatever country it currently wants to invade. As you know, I -do- think that some Saudi officials supported some of the alleged 9/11 hijackers, but I think one should pay close attention to my use of the word alleged here; I have seen no hard evidence that any of the hijackers actually hijacked anything (other then the media, which for the most part has lapped up the ever shifting official story concerning 9/11)
     
  12. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    The Saudis had nothing to do with Sept 11th attack.. and your source "Global Research" is crap.

    The Bush administration should have released the redacted pages in 2003 and put a stop to all this idle speculation.

    Bush KNEW they had nothing to do with the attack... so does Obama. The Saudi relationship with the US is absolutely bipartisan and will continue no matter who is president..

    What we have is some Americans who are so dumb they don't know who their friends are.

    As for the quip about Iran.. Bush caused Iran to become MORE powerful with the invasion of Iraq... and the Saudis didn't want that either.
     
  13. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    From the article:

    A federal judge in Tampa, Florida has been reviewing the documents for more than two years as a consequence of a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit brought by a trio of online reporters—Anthony Summers, Robbyn Swan and Dan Christensen. The review process has been extremely slow because of restrictive FBI rules on how many pages Judge William Zloch may access at any one time.

    This is a clear case of tampering and a conflict of interest by the FBI. It violates the Constitution because the Executive branch (the FBI) is impeding the Judiciary branch via some arbitrary FBI "rule" that the FBI has no constitutional authority to impose on the Judiciary. I don't understand why the judge is letting the FBI get away with this.
     
  14. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    But you're so brilliant you know better than everyone else on the planet even though you have absolutely nothing to go on because most of the information on this subject is classified.
     
  15. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    It boils down to two men in California Thumairy and Bayoumi and its weak as pond water.
     
  16. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Patrick Martin writes for the World Socialist Website (wsws.org), ... LOLOLOL
     
  17. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    That's nice but none of that explains how you know more than anyone else on the planet despite that most of the information is classified.
     
  18. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    I know the Saudis...
     
  19. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I know Americans too, but not one American told me what's in all that classified information. Maybe the Saudis you know told you? Oh wait, I don't believe they know either.

    The truth is you have no clue despite your pretenses, you just post your personal opinions just like everyone else in this forum.
     
  20. phoenyx

    phoenyx New Member

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    Please Margot; surely you have noticed that just about -everyone- is talking about the Saudis being involved in 9/11 these days? For what it's worth Global Research (which I think you unfairly malign) doesn't spend too much time on the Saudis. If it makes you feel any better, I think Saudi Arabia, while it may have played a role, played a minor one. It seems they supplied some patsies. I believe the heavy lifting of 9/11 was done by Americans, with the demolitions of the WTC buildings getting some help from Israelis.

    You keep on saying that it is all idle speculation. But what if you're mistaken?

    How are you so sure? For that matter, how are you so sure that no one in the Bush Administration -participated- in the 9/11 attacks? I imagine you've n ever considered that someone in the Bush Administration may have -asked- the Saudis to play a role in 9/11. Here's an excerpt from an article I just found that has some information I had seen before, and some I hadn't seen before:

    **In Forbidden Truth: U.S.-Taliban Secret Oil Diplomacy and the Failed Hunt for bin Laden, two French intelligence analysts, Jean-Charles Brisard and Guillaume Dasquie, claim that the Clinton and Bush administrations impeded investigations of bin Laden and his al Qaeda terrorist group in order to maintain good relations with Saudi Arabia and to maintain the stability of the oil market. "As the late John O'Neill told one of the authors [Brisard] of this book, 'All of the answers, all of the clues allowing us to dismantle Osama bin Laden's organization, can be found in Saudi Arabia.'" {8}

    In articles and interviews, Brisard has expanded on this statement, pronouncing the official story about bin Laden's exile from his native Saudi Arabia in 1994 and his frozen assets to be a canard. Not only did O'Neill and the F.B.I. have extensive information concerning the finances of bin Laden and al Qaeda, but the business connections between the bin Ladens, the Mahfouzes, the al Ahmoudis, the Saudi royal family, and the Bush family kept turning up in their investigations.
    Mahfouz, who owns Nimir Petroleum, has conducted joint ventures with the al Amoudi family, which owns Delta Oil. Delta Oil and Unocal planned to build a pipeline through Afghanistan before the Taliban backed away. These Saudi companies are still partnered with bigger oil companies (such as Texaco and Unocal) in developing Central Asian oil projects.
    Although Brisard's interpretation of events has been disputed, the documentation of Forbidden Truth is impeccable. Clearly, the finances and fortunes of the Saudi oligarchs and the Bush family have been intertwined for many years, and oil has been the lubricant of choice, even non-existent oil.
    **

    Moving further down in the article:
    **Michael Springmann, formerly chief of the visa section at the US Embassy in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, claims that he rejected hundreds of suspicious visa applications, but the C.I.A. officer overruled him and ordered the visas to be issued. Springmann protested to the State Department, the Office of Diplomatic Security, the F.B.I., the Justice Department and congressional committees, but in vain. (10)
    Springmann observed that 15 of the 19 people who allegedly flew airplanes into buildings in the United States got their visas from the same CIA-dominated consulate in Jeddah. As a special favor to residents of Saudi Arabia (including non-Saudi citizens), applicants for non-immigrant visas can apply at private travel agencies and receive their visa through the mail. During the months following the 9-11 attack, 102 applicants received their visas by mail, 2 more were interviewed, and none were rejected.
    The Saudis always got special treatment. In a November 6, 2001 BBC broadcast Greg Palast revealed just how special that treatment was. Even after Pakistan expelled the World Association of Muslim Youth (WAMY) and India claimed that the organization was linked to terrorist bombings in Kashmir and the Philippines military accused WAMY of funding Muslim insurgency, the F.B.I. got orders to leave the "charitable association" alone.
    After 9/11, investigators of the Islamic charities discovered overwhelming evidence that Saudis at all levels worked in tandem with the terrorists. David Kaplin reports, "At the Saudi High Commission in Bosnia, which coordinated local aid among Saudi charities, police found before-and-after photos of the World Trade Center, files on pesticides and crop dusters, and information on how to counterfeit State Department badges. At Manila's international airport, authorities stopped Agus Dwikarna, an al Haramain representative based in Indonesia. In his suitcase were C4 explosives." The interlocking charities make it difficult to follow the money trail. "Many share directors, office space, and cash flow. For two years, investigators have followed the money to offshore trusts and obscure charities which, according to court records, they believe are tied to Hamas, al Qaeda, and other terrorist groups." (US News and World Report, December 15, 2003).
    "The White House official line is that the Bin Ladens are above suspicion --apart from Osama, the black sheep, who they say hijacked the family name. That's fortunate for the Bush family and the Saudi royal household, whose links with the Bin Ladens could otherwise prove embarrassing. But Newsnight has obtained evidence that the FBI was on the trail of other members of the Bin Laden family for links to terrorist organisations before and after September 11th."
    **

    Source: The Bush-Saudi Connection


    I certainly agree with you there. I think it's the renewed focus on Saudi Arabia that may have been the tipping point for Saudi Arabia, though, and may well be the primary cause that this article from a Saudi daily has recently appeared...
     
  21. phoenyx

    phoenyx New Member

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    I can. Remember the Dismissal of U.S. attorneys controversy? Even judges become leary of protesting too much when it comes to high level people or organizations...
     
  22. phoenyx

    phoenyx New Member

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    I agree with the gist of what you're saying Bob, but I think you shouldn't be so hard on her. It seems to be that she's telling us what she believes, I think we should focus on telling her why we disagree. I must admit I am very curious as to just how personally she knows Princess Haifa, for instance, but she may not want to tell us, and we have to accept that. All we can do is tell her why we believe what we believe.
     
  23. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    The US lawyers see deep pockets and they want a big win like tobacco or asbestos..
     
  24. phoenyx

    phoenyx New Member

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    History Commons has 7 entries on Thumairy, all of them related to 9/11 and all of them suggesting he may have been complicit. I'll just include the last one:

    **February 23, 2004: Saudi Official Lies to 9/11 Commission about Ties to Hijackers’ Associate
    Fahad al Thumairy, a Saudi diplomat the 9/11 Commission thinks is tied to an associate of two 9/11 hijackers named Omar al-Bayoumi, is interviewed by the Commission and lies about these connections. The Commission’s staff thinks that al Thumairy was, in author Philip Shenon’s words, “a middleman of some sort for [9/11 hijackers] Nawaf Alhazmi and Khalid Almihdhar,” and they have compiled a long dossier on him, mostly based on evidence that staffer Mike Jacobson found in FBI files. According to Shenon, the evidence suggests al Thumairy “had orchestrated help for the hijackers through a network of Saudi and other Arab expatriates living throughout Southern California and led by… al-Bayoumi.” When al Thumairy is interviewed by Raj De and other Commission investigators in Riyadh—in the presence of Saudi government minders—he initially claims, “I do not know this man al-Bayoumi.” However, the investigators have witnesses who say al Thumairy and al-Bayoumi know each other, have records of phone calls between the two men (see December 1998-December 2000 and January-May 2000), and al-Bayoumi has admitted knowing al Thumairy, although they allegedly spoke “solely on religious matters.” De cuts off al Thumairy’s denial, telling him: “Your phone records tell a different story. We have your phone records.” Although al-Bayoumi still professes ignorance, De explains they have the phone records from the FBI, at which point al Thumairy realizes his difficulty and says, “I have contact with a lot of people.” [SHENON, 2008, PP. 309-311]
    **

    The rest of the entires can be found here: http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=fahad_al_thumairy
     
  25. phoenyx

    phoenyx New Member

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    These articles aren't being written by lawyers Margot. For whatever reason, it seems that you are deeply attached to your belief that neither Saudi Arabia officials or American officials played a part in orchestrating 9/11. I can respect that, but you can't make the evidence go away by ignoring it.
     

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