Asked before- If abortion were illegal? How would you prove one happened?

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by Gorn Captain, Jun 9, 2015.

  1. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    How would you PROVE in a court of law that a woman had an elective abortion....and that it wasn't a natural miscarriage, if both she and the doctor testified to that?

    What possible forensic evidence would contradict them?
     
  2. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why you ask these questions....you know how lonely you'll be ;)


    I don't think Anti-Choicers want proof. They just want to make life harder for other people ......must be a religious thing...
     
  3. dridder

    dridder Member

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    Disclaimer: I am not pro life, I just believe abortion needs more restrictions and regulations.

    To answer your question, how do they prove crimes when the only parties involved both stick to the same story? I assume it would be done the same way. Although to justify the cost of the investigation, I would assume the woman would have to be far advanced in her pregnancy. Or they would need the backing of an interested party.

    It would need eye witness testimony, medical records, and forensics. They would have to examine inconsistencies in stories. If the woman claimed to have the miscarriage at home, place of business, in her car or anywhere really, you would think there would be forensic evidence left behind.

    I had my miscarriage in a public bathroom. Let's just say there was A LOT of forensic evidence, and probably quite a few traumatized witnesses.
     
  4. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    Just like any other crime.

    This is indeed a good question we should be discussing, but it applies equally to all sorts of different laws, not just abortion.


    A woman named Purvi Patel was convicted of feticide after it was discovered she had taken abortion-inducing drugs.
    Sting operations are another popular method.
     
  5. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    What exactly do you tell the police when you call 911 to report a suspected abortion?

    HOW do you "suspect " an abortion?

    Where is the "body"?

    You want every woman who has a natural miscarriage investigated? How cruel ? To add to her suffering by being arrested and investigated!!!


    Who would give "eye witness" testimony? The woman? The doctor?

    WHAT MEDICAL RECORDS? If abortion is illegal there aren't "records" ....

    Your personal experience of a NATURAL abortion has nothing to do with illegal abortions :roll:
     
  6. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    1. The only eyewitnesses would not incriminate themselves....nor be forced to (5th Amendment). The doctor, nurses, patient.

    2. There is no "forensic difference" in evidence that could be obtained that would show it was an elective abortion and not a natural miscarriage. Damage to the fetus could be claimed to have been caused post-expulsion from the vagina....and no "CSI: Fetal Victims Unit" investigator could prove differently.

    3. What medical records would a doctor keep ....that he knew could be used against him?
     
  7. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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  8. dridder

    dridder Member

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    Well if a woman had a healthy pregnancy and then suddenly turned up not pregnant you could suspect something had happened to it.

    Im guessing anyone to report it would be a close family member or partner, so they would notice any odd behaviour. They might notice if you went to a clinic pregnant and came back non pregnant.

    Medical records could show there was nothing wrong with the pregnancy. Late term miscarriages very rarely happen spontaneously there is almost always a pre existing condition. And often before a spontaneous early term miscarriage there is a drop in hormones. Mine dropped just before my miscarriage.

    And no I personally would not want every woman investigated, but this is hypothetical is it not?
     
  9. dridder

    dridder Member

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  10. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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  11. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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  12. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Still no intelligent answer from the Misogynist Club........but they are sure they can somehow control and punish women by magic or something ....

    - - - Updated - - -

    And how would have felt if someone called the police and you were arrested, hand cuffed, had a forced examination by a strange doctor and thrown in jail until you could prove it was a miscarriage?
     
  13. dridder

    dridder Member

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  14. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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  15. OKgrannie

    OKgrannie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Congratulations! On being the first to ADMIT that an anti-abortion law is not enforceable, it's just for feel good purposes for the antis.

    FYI, laws are not supposed to be passed to make a religious or moral statement, laws are supposed to have an effect. If the law does not have the desired effect, it should be changed. Laws are also not supposed to be passed to have a moral or religious purpose, the purpose of law (in a secular government) is to maintain order in society. People are allowed to establish their own moral standards and religious practices, so long as those practices do not cause chaos in society.
     
  16. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    UNTIL a woman has a miscarriage....it's a "healthy pregnancy".

    So how do you prove it was an abortion and not a miscarriage.


    And medical records BEFORE a miscarriage...would also show there was "nothing wrong with the pregnancy."

    And since late-term abortions are as rare as late term miscarriages....that argument fails.
     
  17. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    It's one of the fatal flaws in the "Pro-life" Fantasy...not the only one, but major one.

    There is no way....barring the woman and doctor STUPIDLY self-incriminating themselves ....to PROVE in a court of law that an elective abortion wasn't a "natural miscarriage."

    None.

    Yet desperate to keep that fantasy alive..."pro-lifers" will come up with all kinds of answers that are either fantastical or fly in the face of science, forensics, gynecology, obstetrics...or just plain logic.
     
  18. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Did you notice I can't get an answer from the poster who had a very public "miscarriage"?

    I asked if SHE would've wanted to be arrested, forcefully examined, and charged until she could prove it was a "real" miscarriage.


    Just another example of the " I want to have women controlled, not me"" group
     
  19. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    One of the traps "pro-lifers" fall into on this topic.....

    "Guilty until proven innocent"...they endorse it. Which runs counter to one of the basic tenets of American jurisprudence.
     
  20. dridder

    dridder Member

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    Yes. And how do you maintain social order? By determining what is best for the majority. And how do you determine what is best for the majority? With morality.

    General rule; cause no harm.

    Problem is I and many others believe non restricted abortion causes harm. To the unborn, to the mother, and to society in general.
     
  21. dridder

    dridder Member

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    Ive already answered this question. Investigators are trained to examine all available information. Look at any criminal case that has involved 2 parties that collude. They look for flaws in the story and match it up with forensic evidence.
     
  22. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    That means every miscarriage would have to be treated as a potential homicide ... about a million per year.

    Right now there are about 15,000 homicides per year in the US. So we would have to increase our abilities to investigate violent crime by ... wow... guess we'll have to kill off anyone on Social Security after the age of 78 to pay for that one. Then we'll have to new courts and new prisons ... well ...

    And don't forget the extra airport pregnancy examination chambers - can't have pregnant women going on "vacations" now can we ...

    Those free condoms and day after pills are sounding a bit better aren't they.
     
  23. dridder

    dridder Member

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  24. dridder

    dridder Member

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    I'm not pro life. I was answering these questions hypothetically. I 110% support contraception being freely available. I also support sterilization being freely available to anyone who is old enough and mentally capable enough to make that choice. I support elective abortion prior to 10 weeks. Abortion under certain economic, social, legal and health conditions up until 20 weeks. And theraputic abortion where the mother has a higher than 1:10,000 risk of dying or the fetus is severely malformed up until birth.
     
  25. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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