Assault rifle ban will fail without objective definitions because...

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by modernpaladin, Aug 9, 2019.

  1. Sage3030

    Sage3030 Well-Known Member

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    Right. 6 people shot. That’s more than 4. Can you read the last half of your sentence?
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  2. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Uh a mass shooting is where 4 or more people are killed.

    Better get your facts straight.
     
  3. Sage3030

    Sage3030 Well-Known Member

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    That would be a mass KILLING. A mass shooting involves four or more people SHOT. She shot 6, killing 3.
     
  4. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    I didn’t opine on that. My post was related to the text of the post quoted in my response. Care to comment on why you tried to deflect and shift the context?
     
  5. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Here is my post that you were responding to. Don’t see any diversion except possibly by yourself who never actually responded to what I said.


    “There are a few cases where armed citizens have perhaps prevented killings. There are a lot more cases where armed citizens have done the killings.”

    Don’t see any diversion there.
     
  6. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Oh so you think they are slaves?
     
  7. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    And? What did he accomplish assuming your post is even accurate.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  8. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    The silliness of the post is obvious.

    Your response of me opining that, was to respond with the post,
    “So in your opinion the fact that guns cost way more lives than they save is meaningless logic. Care to elucidate on your obviously flawed opinion.”

    Then if you wanted to argue the cost-benefit aspect as in your question to me, why didn’t you just state it simply?

    When I say it is silly, there are two reasons, the first being an underlying assumption that the only way guns save lives is if they stop a crime by being discharged in doing so. Second, every national level study, including the 1993 special task force study and that of the CDC 2013 report indicated as great or greater instances of successful self defense by guns in excess of victims of gun crime because they also included guns used in successful defense where they were not discharged, but managed to dissuade an attack or crime.
    While, most criminals are citizens, the manner in which your post was worded, rather than referring to armed criminals doing the killings you generalize to armed citizens doing them as if being a citizen armed somehow is the salient factor in killings. While most criminals are citizens, most citizens aren’t criminals. You statement implied the logic if all crows are black birds then all black birds must be crows.
    The fact is, the vast majority of armed citizens are not criminals and don’t kill others.
     
  9. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    No it was a very simple statement which all your obfuscation will not disprove. And nothing in my post says anything about armed criminal or armed civilians so please do stop lying about what I actually said.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  10. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    I believe he is referring to the Church shootings in Sutherland Springs. It’s not surprising that you may not know of it or the name Stephen Willeford who stopped the shooting using an AR15 as the MS media didn’t devote as much time as they would on a private citizen stopping the shooting because it runs counter to the narrative they wish to focus upon.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutherland_Springs_church_shooting

    BTW, for those that think Wikipedia an accurate source; you’d note on the page, they refer to the shooter’s weapon as a Ruger AR-556 semi automatic rifle, something obviously written by someone with no knowledge of firearms, as it doesn’t exist and is a conflation used to make reference to something AR in the text.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
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  11. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    There is no lie, but my opinion.
    But, I did take umbrage with your statement and gave reason why.
     
  12. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Of course you did claim I talked about guns in civilian hands and criminal hands which I most certainly did not. My post was very simple. If you didn't understand it read it again. If you need to just make things up and attribute them to me then there is no point in discussing facts with someone who makes stuff up

    Here is my post one more time. Try to read what it actually says not what you think you can refute:

    " There are a few cases where armed citizens have perhaps prevented killings. There are a lot more cases where armed citizens have done the killings."
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  13. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not at all, however unlike employees they cannot just walk away from the job and get a job elsewhere if they don't like it.

    I guess you have never been enlisted or you would understand that.
     
  14. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Re:
    Since instances in which armed citizens who have prevented killings are almost always unreported or at least under reported, how do you know that: "There are a lot more cases where armed citizens have done the killings."?

    I can think of 3 cases in which my being armed has probably saved my life & I reported none of these instances to avoid the hassle.
     
  15. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He caused the shooter to cease the shooting and then wounded him as he was fleeing, the shooter lost control of his vehicle and continued to fight, law enforcement arrived and the shooter refused to surrender, Willeford with law enforcement in place began to back off, but was advised by law enforcement to stand his ground and keep the shooter pinned down as Willeford had the best position to do so.

    In the end the shooter died ending the conflict, however had Willeford not utilized his AR-15 that day there is a very good chance the body count could have been much higher.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  16. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As I am sure you know, but for the record the shooter had an AR-15 as did the civilian who engaged and shot him.

    So much for the GCA argument as to why civilians do not need such firearms.

    Their logic is reduce us to slingshots, while allowing criminals to be armed to the teeth to reduce "gun crimes."

    The GCA's are some truly warped people, they wish to disarm the law abiding, while complaining about imprisoning criminals and enjoy using the bodies of dead children as a soapbox to stand upon many times before the funerals have been completed to promote their totally failed, false and misguided cause.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
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  17. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Sacrifice a few for the herd... while predators are feeding the herd can relax. It’s a numbers game, they always figure it will be someone else that draws the short straw.
     
  18. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Nope sorry the shooter was already done and exiting the church. That is a fact.
     
  19. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but your fictions are not evidence. Try again.
     
  20. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Became eligible in the Vietnam war era. Way to smart and ethical to enlist and thus support a totally immoral war.
     
  21. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    No it is a lie when you ascribe a statement to me that I didn't actually make.
     
  22. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He stopped when Willeford yelled "Hey" and the shooter went to the door where he started firing at Willeford with a handgun. Willeford shot him twice in the vest then when the shooter dropped his rifle shot him in the side and thigh where he wasn't protected. The shooter fired 700 rounds in the church.
     
  23. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not true at all.

    A year in the life of Stephen Willeford, who disrupted the mass murder in his small town’s First Baptist Church and became known as the ultimate good guy with a gun.

    As he approached the old white chapel, he screamed as loud as he could, “Hey!” To this day, he’s not sure why—he knows that giving away your position is foolish, tactically—but friends inside the church later told him that when the gunman heard Willeford’s cry, he stopped shooting and headed for the front door. “It was the Holy Spirit calling the demon out of the church,” he tells people.

    Just as Willeford reached the front yard of Fred and Kathleen Curnow, whose house faces the church entrance, a man wearing black body armor and a helmet with a visor emerged from the church. Willeford scrambled behind the front tire of Fred’s Dodge Ram. The gunman raised his pistol and fired three times. One bullet hit the truck. One hit the Dodge Challenger parked behind him. One hit the house.

    Willeford propped his AR-15 on the pickup’s hood and peered through the sight. He could see a holographic red dot on the man’s chest. He fired twice. He wasn’t sure he’d hit him, though he was later told that the man had contusions on his chest and abdomen consistent with getting shot while wearing body armor. Regardless, the gunman stopped shooting and ran for a white Ford Explorer that was idling outside the chapel, roughly twenty yards from where Willeford had positioned himself.

    As the shooter rounded the front of the Explorer, Willeford noticed that the man’s vest didn’t cover the sides of his torso. Willeford fired twice more, striking the man once beneath the arm—in an unprotected spot—and once in the thigh.

    The man leaped into the vehicle, slammed the door, and fired twice through the driver’s side window. Willeford aimed for where he thought his target’s head would be and pulled the trigger, shattering the driver’s side window completely. The Explorer sped away, turning north onto FM 539, and Willeford ran into the street and got off another shot, this time shattering the SUV’s rear window.

    https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/stephen-willeford-sutherland-springs-mass-murder/
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
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  24. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    You have to understand, Willeford didn’t follow GCA protocol; he interrupted a body count that could have been used to better effect by the GCAs and the MS media if he didn’t intervene. Part of why he’s been ghosted by the media.
     
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  25. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Re: Post # 370

    Why should anyone believe anything you claim when you dismiss the experiences of others as "fictions"?

    If you were so smart, you would know that "...to smart..."(sic) should be "...too smart...".

    If you're going to brag about your alleged intelligence, it's a good idea to use proper grammar when doing so.
     
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