Attack Against Christendom

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Kyklos, Sep 14, 2018.

  1. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sorry, I don't see it as "blackmail". I see it as the act of ultimate love. I do see how "Religion" has presented it to you in that way as a vehicle to manipulate and control. That is man's doing....not God's. I am saying that there are mysteries for which I do not have an answer for. but I put my faith in the One that made this life all possible. Allow me to try and explain in my own words why it is so.

    God, the Creator, has at His hands the ability to create at merely the spoken word. He does that. It is rewarding to Him and a part of His glory. In spite of that, there was something dreadfully missing. Human beings were created in a way they can easily understand that. That missing part is the thing we call "relationship" the essence of "love". God created human beings with actually that idea in mind. For that to work, our species had to have the ability to choose our desires. In order to reciprocate "love" there had to be a choice or an option. Without it, we would be no more valuable to Him than the beautiful granite boulders He created that abound in the Sonoran desert of Arizona. For that option to be real, sin had to enter the plan. Sin, being contrary to the Nature of God is the essence of rebellion or "rejection". Rejection is one step beyond hate. No matter how big or how small, sin brings pain and suffering. It is the price of that rejection and if we embrace it, it is a hard bitten choice. Those embracing religion, choose to call it "hell".

    Personally, I choose to reject the rejection. Primarily because, by faith, I believe God has provided a way. It was not without a cost that only He could pay. It combines justice and Grace with mercy. He felt the pain that we experience in our desire to overcome and experience "relationship" with Him. It is a reciprocated love and the essence of "relationship". No other plan for the purpose of life has ever been revealed to me or even comes close. The threat of "hell" is used by religion to manipulate and control. I understand how, in our rejection of God, it is a temptation humankind cannot overcome. I have known a great many, many even in my own family, that have a "religious nature". They are good at understanding "law" and "works", and they pride themselves in what little they can accomplish. That pride, in itself, is sin. What they don't understand is relationship. All they have to offer is a series of "pat" prayers" that even make them more prideful. What they don't understand is speaking and giving to God from the heart.....or "RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM". Hell is a choice they embrace.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  2. Dissily Mordentroge

    Dissily Mordentroge Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don’t want to sound rude here but from where I sit trying to communicate with believers using terms such as ‘faith’ and ‘belief’ to explain their position is pointless.
     
  3. Dissily Mordentroge

    Dissily Mordentroge Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Christianity isn’t a man made religion?
     
  4. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You sit where you sit.....and I sit where I sit. I have a certain faith, and so do you. Does your faith tell you that we are here and everything we know think and feel is just happenstance?
     
  5. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, there are those that say so......and to some, that is all there is. To others, God communicates to His children through written instruction, through circumstances and intuition as well. Forgive me for using scripture but "faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen." That brings us into relationship. It is apart from "Religion". One time I joined ELKS (B.P.O.E.) so my family could use their swimming pool. It had rituals and rules. I really didn't pursue any of them, but I did like the nice swimming pool. By all concerned, though, I was an ELK. That is the best way I can describe "Religion". I was religious in that sense. So are many that say "I am a Christian". It is not what you say, it is what you are.
     
  6. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course it is....we even have documentation that shows it is. We can trace the earlier religions man made that are incorporated into it and piece together the humans that created it, sometimes even by name. We can read the history of councils and men that revised it into the current form. Unless you can explain and show some god was behind all this it is a human construct.
     
  7. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    So a despised minority (disciples) within a despised minority (Israel of 2,000 years ago) concocted the whole thing, that a third of humanity believes in today? Why don't you prove your theory and start your own religion? I'm sure you'll have no trouble finding people willing to knowingly die for a lie.

    /Sarcasm off
     
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  8. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That does indeed seem the most likely scenario and is more likely than the "God Did It" version. As far as the "theory" it is already proven and apparently we have some people here who believe the religion you recommended already exists...Atheism. Fortunately no one needs to die for it.
     
  9. Dissily Mordentroge

    Dissily Mordentroge Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Didn’t you notice the question mark at the end of my post? My perspective is that ALL holy books are products of the human imagination. At times poetically stunning, at times utterly murderous and often just irrational gibberish. One thing I do know is those who oppose the religious gaining political power need to study these tomes . It’s that ancient saying “Know thine enemy"
     
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  10. Paul7

    Paul7 Well-Known Member

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    Except the 100,000,000 victims of atheistic communism.
     
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  11. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    You know who started communism dont you?
     
  12. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I see....so everyone who is killed by someone who has no religion is killed for Atheism? That means everyone killed by someone with religion is killed by religion. WOW.....Christianity has killed millions and Islam even more....This God dude has been busy. Christian Democracy is pretty bad....Islamic theocracy is even worse.
     
  13. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Communism was fiercly antitheist. K.Marx considered religions "as the opium of the people".

    Christianity, Islam, Communism aren't that much different. They all believe in a paradise, the only difference between communism and the two first is that communism believe in a man made paradise on earth when muslims and christian believe that if you die, maybe god will let you enter the big party.
     
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  14. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So basically....people kill people and religion is irrelevant. Agreed.
     
  15. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The ideology you have is relevant. But it's just a mankind thing to kill each other. Jesus said "love your ennemy", you can't be more clear, yet some christian find in him a way to justify brutalities. People who want to kill will always find a good reason to kill.
    I tend to believe however that there is wiser ideologies than other.
     
  16. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, the ideology of reincarnation is a wiser one... it teaches you through action and reaction or as you sow so will you reap. That kind of philosophy makes you think twice before hurting or killing someone. AND it does make sense! That's why it is not being taught in our Western society... too painful for the rich and corrupt!

    Man gets often carried away by fanaticism and thinks, everybody has to believe in his particular brand of religion.
    I deeply pity the Christian mother of five in Pakistan:

    http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Last-hearing-for-Asia-Bibi-next-Monday-45139.html
    One has to wonder how nuts can people get?!!!
    Truth is, they don't know any different.
     
  17. Kyklos

    Kyklos Well-Known Member Donor

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    Please take some time to view this interview with Chris Hedges on Sept. 28, 2018. Hedges covers a number of interesting topics including theological issues, his war experiences, and his new book on America. Chris Hedges and Thom Hartmann are two of my most favorite contemporary writers.
     
  18. Kyklos

    Kyklos Well-Known Member Donor

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    Here comes the planes....No Superman to save us. "The Hand that Takes" is the evil we all face. Justice is broken. G-d is gone on business.


    O Superman.
    O judge.
    O Mom and Dad. Mom and Dad...
    O Superman.
    O judge.
    O Mom and Dad. Mom and Dad...
    Hi.
    I'm not home right now.
    But if you want to leave a message,
    just start talking at the sound of the tone.
    Hello?
    This is your Mother.
    Are you there?
    Are you coming home?
    Hello?
    Is anybody home?
    Well, you don't know me,
    but I know you.
    And I've got a message
    to give to you.
    Here come the planes.
    So you better get ready.
    Ready to go.

    You can come as you are,
    but pay as you go.
    Pay as you go...

    And I said: OK. Who is this really?
    And the voice said:
    This is the hand, the hand that takes.
    This is the hand, the hand that takes.
    This is the hand, the hand that takes.
    Here come the planes.

    They're American planes.
    Made in America.
    Smoking or non-smoking?

    And the voice said: Neither snow nor rain nor gloom
    of night shall stay these couriers from the swift
    completion of their appointed rounds.

    'Cause when love is gone, there's always justice.
    And when justice is gone, there's always force.
    And when force is gone, there's always Mom. Hi Mom!

    So hold me, Mom, in your long arms.
    So hold me, Mom, in your long arms.
    In your automatic arms.
    Your electronic arms.
    In your arms.
    So hold me, Mom, in your long arms.
    Your petrochemical arms.
    Your military arms.
    In your electronic arms.​
     
  19. Kyklos

    Kyklos Well-Known Member Donor

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    Consistent with the theme of this thread are a number of essays on the state of modern organized Christianity. Berny Belvedere is an evangelical Christian and an Academic philosopher. Belvedere has published an article on the devolution of the religious conservative movement. Disgusted evangelical scholar explains how Christian ‘grifters and status-seekers’ paved the way for Trump.

    From Working-Class Perspectives is an article on the Christian Right and Mega Churches. Ken Estey is an associate professor of Political Science at Brooklyn College and the author of A New Protestant Labor Ethic at Work. His research centers on the intersection of politics and religion with a particular focus on labor and Christianity. Some evangelicals are waking up to the nightmare of the GOP’s deeply troubling sell-out of the Kingdom of God

    Chris Hedges tells journalist Hugh Hamilton about the political goals of the Christian Right. Hedges spend time with fundamentalists churches and wrote about his experience. He is interviewed about his most recent book, America: The Farewell Tour Part II.

    And now a word from the Rev. Pat Robertson. The Reverend is a billionaire who has taken the path of the suffering Witness to the Truth. Robertson is a leading American leader of the union of Christianity and fascism. Leading Christian Evangelist Pat Robertson dismisses Khashoggi disappearance: “It’s not worth jeopardizing $100 Billion worth of arms sales,” said evangelist Pat Robertson.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  20. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Define Christian.
     
  21. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    L Ron Hubbard founded Scientology on a bet. Founded in 1952 and now has about twenty five thousand followers. Probably be bigger than Christianity in a couple thousand years.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  22. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're quite right of course. There is nothing to suggest that Jesus was anything than a Jewish Preacher. All the prophesies from the OT claiming to refer to Jesus have nothing to do with him. The prophecies and verses in the Nativity stories have been taken out of context - mainly by the writer of Matthews gospel with Luke chipping in with his bit. Neither agree with each other and do not agree with the Old Testament contexts in which they are found.
     
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  23. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And Mohammed founded Islam while conversing with an angel. Though I have it on good authority that God gave the angel 6 months extra probation for doing so.
     
  24. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why, don't you know the meaning of it?
     
  25. delade

    delade Well-Known Member

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    'Yeshua' was not a (J)ew either. He was Yehudi.

    Did anti Semitism arise after the term 'Jew' was placed into the vocabulary of some? There was no such thing as 'Jew' before the adoption of the letter 'J' into the English alphabet around 1600 A.D. Was there such a thing as anti Semitism before 1600?
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018

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