Audiophiles, step this way... Amp advice needed

Discussion in 'Member Casual Chat' started by SiNNiK, Feb 20, 2020.

  1. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    After having bought a house I am starting to focus on building a home theater system. I have a Denon X3100W AVR driving Polk Audio RM7600's with a couple Polk Audio RM95's for the rear surrounds for a 7.1 Home Theater system.

    It sounds really nice, but am searching for an amp to incorporate for "moar powah". I have done a bit of research and have learned that there are tons of audio manufacturers I've not heard of before.

    I'm wondering if there are some folks here on PF who dabble in Hi Fi and have some good advice on brand recommendation(s). I'm looking for 50 watts or so for all 7.1 speakers.

    Also have some Huge Pioneer's that I'd like to use for music through Zone 2, just have to work out the configuration for a 9.1 setup.

    Thanks y'all.
     
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  2. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  3. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    Both of those are solid choices. Thanks. Will look into Monoblock.
     
  4. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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  5. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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  6. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    ya gotta get to at least $6MM before splurging on these bad boys, si or no?
     
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  7. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I never understood why "audiophile" would go for tube amps when, by design, they can't reproduce sound accurately. Tubes introduce harmonic distortion which, while pleasing to our human ears, isn't part of the actual recording.
     
  8. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    Much for the same reason people have preferences in speaker brands and types. Personal preference.

    And tubes add an additional element of adjustment by simply changing tubes to change the sound.
     
  9. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They also consume more electricity and generate more heat.
    They're also harder to come by since most of the good producers have closed shop. Now you're pretty much limited to cheap chinese knock off of the classic tubes.

    A good system, be it amp or speaker, is one who doesn't alter the sound reproduction. Tubes can't do that.
     
  10. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    The people who enjoy tube amps aren't concerned with the same aspects of music you may be concerned with and the things that are important to you may not matter to them at all.

    I don't care about energy consumption and the Chinese have been killing it recently with Hi Fi stuff. https://www.china-hifi-audio.com/en

    I probably won't go with a tube amp, they are inexpensive enough to at least have one to play with.
    https://www.china-hifi-audio.com/en...lass-a-hifi-audio-amplifier-boyuurange-p-1300

    [​IMG]

    As an aside, how do you feel about amps with tone controls?
     
  11. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    Luckily for guys like me, there is a 'low end' on the cost spectrum. ;)
     
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  12. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Tone control doesn't belong on an amp. It belongs on the processor.
    The function of an amp is to strictly amplify the signal, not modify it.
     
  13. BuckyBadger

    BuckyBadger Well-Known Member

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    Pioneer, wow, that is a name I haven't heard in ages. I had to Google them to see if they were still around. Pioneer was the first system I ever bought. They had smaller shelf systems too that I had in my den, way back when. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.

    I am not really an audiophile outside of some DVD-A's I made on the home computer. The speakers I use for my home system are all Bose. That includes my computer which is set up beautifully to listen to music. I really like them, they deliver great sound for me. My car uses Harman Kardon which I find exceptional.
     
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  14. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    These Pioneer CS-G403's are my wife's and she bought them in '91, been inside and in use all this time, and still in pristine condition.

    With 18" woofers, the punch they deliver can take your breath away. Love those things.

    I don't consider myself an audiophile either but I do seek advice and opinions from those who do, often. I learn lots of cool things from the folks who love this stuff.

    Out of all the speakers I've listened to, I like Bose the least. Having said that I do have to confess that I had a pair of Bose 501 Series IV floor speakers that I bought in '86 that I lo0o0oved. Had them till 2001. And I ran into some 901's in a dance club in Germany back around the same time, man those things were monsters. But I think Bose was a different beast back then.

    I am a fan of Harman Kardon though. :)
     
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  15. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you might have an interesting setup, any pics?
     
  16. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    I might be mistaken, but I think Bob Carver is the inventor of the magnetic field power amp. Pretty much all amps today are based on it. So, if I’m correct, then when Bob comes out with $32k tube amps, you can best believe these are the fo real shizzle dizzle!

    I’d love to have a pair of these wired up to a pair of these!

    https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/M2System--jbl-m2-reference-monitor-system
     
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  17. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No they're not. I'm no dissing on Carver, he is a great amp designer, but in reality if sound fidelity is your goal then tubes aren't the solution. I also like the tube audio colorizing, but I'm also aware that's the result of harmonic distortions not present in the original recording. The same thing apply to the vinyl vs digital debate.
     
  18. Steve N

    Steve N Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ok, we're finally discussing a subject I'm very knowledgeable about and I've attached a pic of the stereo I had in my last home as my bona fides.

    The amp I have is an MBL 9008a, and you can see it as that huge black thing with the gold emblem towards the bottom right of my equipment rack. That amp, unless you have a lot of $$$ and big muscles, is not for home theater, but rather 2 channel playback. Unless your speakers are meticulously set up, i.e. far from the walls, equidistant from from where you sit, the room is treated with acoustic material, you've invested in good grade cables and power cords, etc, then a high dollar amp is not really needed for home theater use.

    i would not recommend tubes. They sound real good, but they can get hot and if you have kids or pets then you're just flirting with disaster.

    Most solid state amps are class A/B. which is good. Do not get a class A amp as they suck up current, run super hot and will make your electric bill climb. Put it this way, they're constantly sucking current from your wall outlet, and unless you're playing music very loud, the unused current get dissipated as heat. You don't really want these for home theater because you'll never get the most out of them sound wise unless you do all the things I mentioned about.

    Class D amps, or otherwise known as digital switching amps, are now popular because they're light, don't suck up too much power, and when I had a pair I never even turned them off. The down side is they can deliver volts but not current (ohm's law Watts = voltage times current) so those amps, unless you buy really good ones, might not deliver the goods into speakers with a low input impedance or are inefficient (you can tell if the speaker is inefficient by how much acoustic output it has with a 1 watt input measured at one meter. The rating will be measured in db and a fairly efficient speaker will have a rating of around 89 or 90db.

    As far as how much power you'll need, a speaker with an efficient rating of 85db and above would be ok with an amp that cranks out 100 watts or more. Keep in mind that if you intend to really crank up the sound, then you will need more power because distortion from your amp not having enough power will blow out your tweeters easier and faster than by blowing them out by having too much power. Also note that to increase the acoustic output of a speaker by 3db you have to double the power. In other words, going from a 100 watt per channel amp to a 200 wpc amp only buys you 3db.

    Right now there are many models you can choose from, some even have 7 channels of amplification. But if I happened to be in the market for a home theater amp I'd be looking at Krell. I had a Krell amp a long time ago and my wife made me get rid of it because it got too hot in the So Cal summer heat - yup, it was 250 watts per channel with a high class A bias. It heated a room. But now Krell makes their amps with a class A/B bias and they don't run nearly as hot and they have a reputation of being able to drive just about any low speaker impedance around, something most tube amps can't do.

    As for subwoofers, quality is better than woofer size. Just because a large woofer can move a lot of air doesn't mean that moving air will sound good. I've had excellent results with 10 inch woofers which could move enough air to make my pants flap in the breeze they created - that's not a lie. They pants didn't move much, but they moved. The speakers you see in my attached pic have two 11 inch woofers in each cabinet and they moved waaaaay too much air in that room which made the bass boomy and subject to standing waves.

    Anyway, the wife is calling, but I could type all day. Hit me up with a PM if you want to talk about this some more. And good luck. MVC-725S.JPG
     
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  19. Steve N

    Steve N Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The high second order harmonic distortions found in some tubes amps is actually and literally pleasing to the human ear. That's why people can dismiss the distortion ratings of tube amps, it's because those 2nd order distortions make the midrange sound richer.
     
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  20. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    I'm looking up Krell, Thanks a TON! Will definitely PM.
     
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  21. Steve N

    Steve N Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Go here

    https://www.audiogon.com/

    I’ve bought and sold high end stuff with total confidence.
     
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  22. Steve N

    Steve N Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  23. SiNNiK

    SiNNiK Well-Known Member

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    Steve N likes this.
  24. Steve N

    Steve N Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nice.
     

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