Australian MP's - Democracy Threatened By Treatment Of Assange

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Jeannette, Feb 22, 2020.

  1. Rugglestx

    Rugglestx Well-Known Member

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    “As it is currently written, the Espionage Act of 1917 makes it a crime to hurt the United States or benefit a foreign country by collecting or communicating information that would harm the national defense. It is also a crime to enter an installation or obtain a document connected to the national defense in order to hurt the United States or benefit a foreign country. Knowingly receiving classified information that has been obtained illegally, as well as passing it on, also runs afoul of the Espionage Act.”

    The courts will have to decide but looks illegal to me.
     
  2. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As I mentioned, that law, and the interpretation of it, will run into some serious First Amendment issues, since the Constitution guarantees freedom of the press, and reporting is a cornerstone of democratic process.

    Also it is very debatable whether "the United States" was overall hurt by the publication, or whether it was Assange's intent to do so.

    Even in the absence of the First Amendment, I think there is some Constitution-based argument that such a language in the law goes beyond appropriate powers, with government trying to lay claim to information and banning its dissemination.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
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  3. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the first sentence. The second sentence is hyperbole.
     
  4. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Donor

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    I'm not the liar, you are the liar because you are misquoting what I said. I never said the Russians helped anyone other than the Orthodox Christians in Eastern Europe from the Latins, as well as the Orthodox under the Turks. This was true of France as well, who helped their Catholic brethren since much of the Greek and Arab lands were colonies of France and then of the Italian states. It's this help by the Russians of the Orthodox, that accounts for Russia's closeness to Syria with its large Orthodox Christian population today.

    Anyway I'm not Eastern European, I'm an American of Greek heritage, so I know nothing of what went on in that part of world other than the name Ruthenian means Russian in Latin. If they are Russians and Roman Catholic, wouldn't it mean that the West was advancing into Russian lands and putting the Orthodox under the Pope rather than the other way around?

    If Russia was the one invading Western lands, then wouldn't the non Russians in Central Europe be under the bishop of Kiev/Moscow? So who's the aggressor here? A little logic please.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
  5. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    What government crimes? Specifically what?
     
  6. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The claim of those who hate Assange is that publishing something that had been illegally leaked by government employee is a crime, that the public does not have the right to know about questionable war activities the government may be committing.

    Despite the fact that many US Congressmen were not even aware of these things until the leak and its media publication, and it had an effect on politics.

    Kind of sad state of affairs when the people elected to make laws are not aware of something done by government until the media shows it to them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
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  7. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    On a case-by-case basis, the war of terror waged by the US in the middle east is as big a hoax as there could be.

    "Classified Information" is merely government secrets--photos and audios of war crimes.

    Exposing the crimes of government, numerous as they be, is the duty of every citizen. Assange, not Rush Limbaugh, deserves the medal for the services he has performed, showing the criminals in action.

    The two men of conscience, Manning and Assange, deserve national medals and commendations.
     
  8. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Crimes totally beyond your perception and comprehension Rob.
     
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  9. Wonder4575

    Wonder4575 Newly Registered

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    I dont like Assange but I don't think he should locked up. And can anyone tell me why Manning was pardoned?
     
  10. Rugglestx

    Rugglestx Well-Known Member

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    Wrong.
     
  11. Rugglestx

    Rugglestx Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like thats from a 70s Sci Fi shows...
     
  12. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Probably because Obama felt Manning had some legitimate reason to release the information, even though the release of information was a crime.

    The media had generated a lot of sympathy for him (and I think in large part rightfully so).

    Generally, those who supported the war wanted to see Manning punished, and those who opposed the war viewed Manning as a hero. Manning chose to break the law to reveal the type of things that were actually going on in the war. And when it was revealed, some people (mainly the anti-war people) were outraged.

    Manning believed the information he released constituted government abuse, and the public had the right to know what was going on.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
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  13. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Manning's sentence was commuted, shortened. He was not pardoned.

    In case you don't know, here in the land of the free and home of the brave he has been imprisoned for about the last year. His "crime" is remaining silent before a GJ "investigating" matters about which Manning has already testified.
     
  14. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, as Dresden James noted many years ago, "When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speak a raving lunatic."

    Orwell had the same powers of perception as James, powers you seem not to possess: "In a time of universal deception, speaking the truth is a radical act."

    Likely you will never understand certain truths.
     
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  15. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Do you recall that months after "Collateral Murder" was released, Robert Gates, the old CIA guy and Obama's Sec Def stated on camera that the material handed over by Manning to Wikileaks had harmed not one single person?
     
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  16. Rugglestx

    Rugglestx Well-Known Member

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    I think we as a society are more intelligent and have better comprehension of what is going on than that.
     
  17. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Donor

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    A traitor to what country? Assange is not an American, nor has he ever stepped in this country. He's Australian. His problem is he rattled a few people, like for instance the Clinton's when he published what the DNC did to Bernie Sanders. Assange was given the information by Seth Rich, and he was killed shortly afterwards - something that's common with them.

    They didn't stop there though, they decided to blame Russia - the West's eternal scapegoat to impeach Trump.


    [​IMG]

    Listen my friends and please pay heed.
    We have to search, we have to weed
    them Russians from among us folks,
    and catch them in their traitorous works.


    For if we don't the Trump shall rule.
    He'll turn our land into a tool,
    for Putin and for personal gain.
    And it will be to our own shame.


    For we are liberals and know what's good.
    We know what's right, and what we should
    be doing now, is start to fight
    so we can do the fair and right.


    We'll bomb at night and in the day.
    We'll make them pay for what they say.


    And even if we turn to dust,
    it matters not, for it's a must
    to show them how we'll use our might,

    to always do what's fair and right.- Jeannette




     
  18. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sure, that's why half the country still thinks Vlad stole Hillary's election, and that we humans are alone in the universe. :D
     
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  19. Rugglestx

    Rugglestx Well-Known Member

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    They understand he won, they are just in a self imposed denial of it.
     
  20. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    Well the US Intelligence service may have just shot the extradition case (and their chances of getting hold of Assange) in the foot. A Spanish legal inquiry into a company that was contracted to provide security services to the Ecuadorian Embassy has revealed that at the request of US intelligence services it placed microphones and cameras in rooms used by Assange and his lawyers to discuss his defense case. Copies of these discussion were duly forwarded to the US and used in part at least to frame the US legal response to that case.

    This means Assanges lawyers can (and apparently will) argue that the Judge presiding over the extradition hearing has no choice but to dismiss the US extradition bid. It would also mean that any fresh/further attempts to launch a new case would also be hopelessly compromised from the start and could not proceed because that intelligence gained by the intelligence services is 'out in the world' now and could potentially be used again.

    If this does happen I suspect someone in the US intelligence services will be getting a kicking.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
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  21. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    The law on leaking is actually very clear.
    The selective enforcement encourages some criminals to think it isn't very clear. ;-)

    “In the spectrum of crimes involving the leaking of classified information, publicly revealing the contents of SIGINT — signals intelligence — is one of the most serious felonies. Journalists (and all other nongovernmental citizens) can be prosecuted under federal law for disclosing classified information only under the narrowest circumstances; reflecting how serious SIGINT is considered to be, one of those circumstances includes leaking the contents of intercepted communications, as defined this way by 18 § 798 of the U.S. Code:

    Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates … or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes … any classified information … obtained by the processes of communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government … shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.”, THE INTERCEPT, The Leakers Who Exposed Gen. Flynn’s Lie Committed Serious — and Wholly Justified — Felonies, By, Glenn Greenwald, February 14 2017.
    https://theintercept.com/2017/02/14...mitted-serious-and-wholly-justified-felonies/

    Assange and WikiLeaks has proved that, for the most part, the classification system is designed to conceal official incompetence and criminality.
     
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  22. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Donor

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    Some, the rest are beautifully brainwashed.
     
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  23. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Finally some aussies with balls and decency !
    The real crimes here are being done by the UK and the US .

    But what can we expect from a govt that killed innocent journalists and then classified the murders to hide it from the people? But if the press speaks truth to power, that power goes after the journalists wwho spoke truth to power and treat him like a nazi war criminal to instill fear in journalists doing their jobs .

    A republic by and for rthe people would not behave as our govt is behaving . But oligarchy and fascism does !

    Fascists are all alike. They must operate in total secrecy and go after any journalist or publisher that reveals their crimes. A republic by and for the people would reveal the murders or killing and tell the people it was a horrible mistake and reparations to family are in order!
     
  24. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    You do know that Assange is not a US citizen right? As such he is not, by definition, a traitor.
     
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  25. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    Again though specifically what?
     
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