Axis of Evil: North Korea, Iran

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by mbk734, Aug 1, 2018.

  1. mbk734

    mbk734 Well-Known Member

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    These are rogue radical states that even Bush identified as part of the axis of evil along with Iraq. Libya, Syria, and Cuba were also identified by Bush as lesser evils and they have definitely unraveled since 2008. Libya and Gaddafi, Syria, and Cuba is relatively tame compared to them. Iraq was messy but debatable as a necessary evil.

    Russia and China are strong rivals as well to some degree although they are more of an economic threat than a direct all out WW3. However I have reason to believe that both of them would indirectly support North Korea and Iran especially with their nuclear missile program. North Korea is not really dismantling their nuclear capabilities. Their facility blew up so they are buying time. Iran is stepping up the saber rattling rhetoric with the reinstated sanctions and torn up deal.

    Meanwhile Trump better make sure our allies are still our allies. Saying NATO needs to pay up is true but we need them as much as they need us in that region of the world. Our global military bases are part of what makes the military what it is. I'm glad Trump has increased our military budget. Interesting times...
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  2. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am the biggest conservative here and I will say that Bush messed up.

    Iraq wasn't necessary and although I have 20/20 hindsight, if I was old enough at the time I'd still argue it wasn't necessary.

    Let's just get that elephant out of the room now.

    North Korea is no longer a threat, for whatever reason they are willing to talk.....something's going on over there so they are off the table now.

    Iran wants to become a hegemony in the region, and they will, so they aren't going to risk going nuclear on anyone.

    They aren't stupid.

    Russia has Putin, the chess player, they are biding their time....not a player.

    The ones I would watch are China and India, both of them are pushing the same region and they both have nukes.

    I can see so many false flags and the blaming it on the other guy it really does scare me.

    "India just nuked the Philippians. No we didn't China did".
     
  3. AltLightPride

    AltLightPride Well-Known Member

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    This "Axis of evil" nonsense already created several wars based on lies.

    You'd think, eventually people would learn and stop with that BS.

    Apparently not.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2018
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  4. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    I will always remember watching Bush at the SOTU use that "axis of evil" line to describe three countries that were not allies in any way.

    That was when I knew for certain that the Bush Administration was going to start a war in Iraq.

    Of the three at the time, the only one that did NOT have a nuclear weapons program was Iraq.

    Cheney was out there with his "smoking gun" talking point, although American intelligence was fully aware that Sadaam had abandoned his program seven years earlier.

    As a result of Bush's speech, and events thereafter, both Iran and North Korea substantially increased their own nuclear programs.
     
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  5. mbk734

    mbk734 Well-Known Member

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    I think the phrase stuck with people and it did identify who the "bad guys" are from the Team America: World Police perspective. Sort of like America's Most Wanted. Saddam may not have had nuclear weapons but he used chemical weapons to commit genocide. They may not have been a direct threat to the US but Saddam was a brutal dictator.

    Iran and North Korea are almost as brutal to their own people and making apocalyptic threats. I'm not arguing that we should go to war with them too but it may happen eventually anyways. At least Trump is open to diplomacy.
     
  6. AltLightPride

    AltLightPride Well-Known Member

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    He definitely used chemical weapons in the past, but he wasn't doing it when America went to war against Iraq. That was old stuff, more than a decade ago. So it's not like that war prevented a massacre or anything. Besides why should the population suffer because of what a dictator did? It was just pointless...except for war profiteers of course.

    Agree for NK, but Iran? I don't buy it. Iran has never threatened the US either.

    This Iran warmongering is scary and has to stop. It's literally Iraq all over again.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2018
  7. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Bush, Cheney and the neocons were determined to invade Iraq at any cost and marginalized ALL the nay sayers.
     
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  8. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Iraq was CRIPPLED by 20 years of war and sanctions BEFORE Bush's invasion.
     
  9. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    the invasion of Iraq was a terrible mistake that unleashed the evils of Sunni extremism upon the world. we may never be able to fix this.
     
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  10. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    They were Baathists....... Sunni secondarily.. and the war on Iraq put Iran in the catbird seat.
     
  11. AlifQadr

    AlifQadr Well-Known Member

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    Historically, (recent years) the Axis of Evil resides in Washington, D.C, Wall Street (since its foundation) as well as many States and Municipalities (since foundation).
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2018
  12. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it was horrible to watch.

    First of all, it was obvious that we were invading the wrong country.

    Second, we knew that Iraq had no nuclear program and that Sadaam was essentially toothless.

    But the Cheney, Travis Ave crowd had visions of returning the Middle East to the halcyon days when the Texas Railroad Commission determined the "lift" from various Persian Gulf states, and the subjugation of Iraq was only the first step.

    To that effort came the international con man Ahmed Chalabi.
     
  13. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the US went to war in Iraq, and Iran won.
     
  14. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    Communism is no longer a world threat, some of our ALLIES are effectively socialist states now. Would prefer a many year moratorium on deployment of U.S. troops overseas other than in protection of our embassies, together with drastic cuts in certain aspects of defense spending, which has become just another rotten aspect of the Complex. I don't find the argument that we are responsible for policing the world intellectually compelling.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2018
  15. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Oh God.. I never heard it explained so well.
     
  16. mbk734

    mbk734 Well-Known Member

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    Whether the war was for oil, WMD's, or regime change, finishing what daddy started, or whatever, I'm not sad to see Saddam and Gaddafi gone. Dictators like NK and Iran have are very similar. War mongering, unstable leadership, pursuing nuclear weapons/missiles in secret with or without sanctions. I'm not sure what the end game is, but diplomacy is going to be difficult with these countries that hate the West.
     
  17. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    I take it you remember when Papa Bush spoke to the Texas RR Commission. Texas and Oklahoma couldn't compete with the low cost ME oil.

    Attacking Iraq was the WRONG move.. There were no State actors in 9-11. The US should have lead an international policing operation in cooperation with our allies and all the Gulf States as well as the Pakistanis, Afghanis, Egyptians to root out terrorists.
     
  18. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    Yes it should have.

    For one, it would have shamed the countries that may have been helping fund terrorism into cooperating.

    The US still had the prestige to carry that off back then.

    The other is that it would have been a great opportunity for a lot of them to off load their problem children.

    The really sad thing about it all was the US policy in the ME (except for Israel) had centered around stability and stable flows of oil for the industrialized world.

    That is why the world supported Papa Bush in 1990, and why the US didn't go in for "regime change" or the horribly cynical and self congratulatory "nation building"
     

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