[b]Dysfunctional Minds Prop Pro-Choice[/b]

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by Tosca1, Apr 14, 2016.

  1. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is an extreme level of misunderstanding. Allow me to clarify:

    I am against abortion.
    I do not feel that I beliefs should be forced into others. (That makes me pro-choice)
    I agree that unwanted pregnancy is irresponsible and in most cases, stupid. Use a damn condom or keep your legs closed!
    Those on this forum, claiming to be pro-life, would force women to give birth, but would never take part in raising the children.
    What that tells me is that they only care up to the point actually doing something about it.
    Their efforts are nothing more than attempts to appear righteous.

    There are many children that will never see the inside of a permanent, loving home. Either make the lifetime commitment or stop claiming to care.

    That being said, at least you are working on the solution side of the issue.
     
  2. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I can certainly agree with that.
     
  3. Tosca1

    Tosca1 Well-Known Member

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    I can't speak for all pro-life, but this is not simply a matter of belief.
    A lot of pro-life (which includes some atheists and humanists pro-life groups) are fighting this on the grounds of human rights violations, and discrimination.

    Our stance is based on the scientific fact that human life begins at fertilization.....and on logic that the fetus is simply going through the normal stages of development, as we all go through stages of development in life.
    We go through a continuous stages of development even after we're born (toddler, adolescent, pubescent, young adult, adult etc.,). Of course, everything has to start somewhere.



    The fetus used to have the same status as that of the born child:


    http://www.unicef.org/malaysia/1959-Declaration-of-the-Rights-of-the-Child.pdf


    Unfortunately, the feminist movement has become so powerful that the unborn was stripped of his rights and his humanity (in the same way that Jews and blacks were stripped of rights by the nazis and slavers).



    There will be people who'll never be successful in life, who'll live in misery and poverty - should that be the justification for slaughter?


    No, this is a fight to save these lives. This is about human rights!
    To say that pro-lifers has to do more than just to try to stop abortion, as an excuse to exterminate life....is flawed.

    Would you have said that during the time of black slavery - that we shouldn't force our belief on those who believe in slavery? Would you give the same caveat, that those who want to force slavers to free their slaves must be willing to buy those slaves from their owners, and financially provide for the slaves who were freed?


    We all should instead emphasize that women ought to do more to prevent getting pregnant in the first place! We have contraceptives! My goodness, we even have some stds that gets spread around through unprotected sex!

    Progressives are all into "preventive" methods: anti-smoking to prevent cancer and other illness..... anti- drinking and driving to prevent accidents.....well? Why not push for usage of contraceptives to prevent unwanted pregnancy?



    Pandering to a group (feminist) that has a twisted sense of entitlement, which totally exonerate irresponsibility and accountablity, is not a solution! That's the root of the problem! See? What good are our laws.....if they can be changed anytime a powerful group comes to lobby for it?


    Pro-choice is misleading people to think that they can do whatever they want with their body! Not true!
    I dare anyone to go to a public place (or a place where you can be seen), and start mutilating yourself.
    Let's see if you don't get taken out of there in a straight jacket!

    Furthermore, in abortion you are doing it to ANOTHER PERSON!
    Our rights end where they step on another person's rights.
     
  4. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    The fetus has no rights.


    IF it had rights, those rights end where they step on another person's (the woman it's in) rights.

    NO person has the right to use another's body to sustain their own life....
     
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  5. Tosca1

    Tosca1 Well-Known Member

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    No! That uterus has a human life! That's the point!

    Mom should mind her own body, and stop messing with that developing human!
    Mom should learn to accept the function of a normal pregnant human female.


    This is no longer just about her. Whether she likes it or not.
     
  6. Tosca1

    Tosca1 Well-Known Member

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    We know that. His rights were taken away because of feminism! READ!





    She created that life! She had made her choice when she decided to indulge in sex!

    If that's the best excuse a woman can make to justify murdering an innocent, then that woman has no business getting pregnant at all! She's a moron! Sterilize her!



    If you created him, too bad.......that's just the way a human female is biologically designed by God (religious), or nature (atheists). As a mother, that's your function to the unborn - to sustain him and nourish him.

    You don't want one? Then, don't create one. Use contraceptions, or any pregnancy-preventive methods!


    Your kind of justification is what gives evidence that Pro-Choice is propped by dysfunctional thinking.
     
  7. Tosca1

    Tosca1 Well-Known Member

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    That would be like watching someone commit murder in front of you, and not try to do anything to stop it......because you think it's none of your business.

    Or that you know child abuse is happening inside a house, and you turn a blind eye ....because you say it's none of your business.


    Right now, due to pandering and political correctness that had brought on this atrocious change, the unborn is being discriminated upon due to his stage of development (age), and it's become legal to inflict atrocities and death on him.

    That's what's pro-life is trying to change again. To restore this vulnerable being's humanity, and his rights as a
    human being.
     
  8. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    No, the fetus NEVER had any rights.

    Abortion is legal.

    Nothing you wrote affects anyone, it's just the rantings of a misogynist..


    Women can have all the fun sex they want and if they get pregnant just have an abortion.

    You can't stop them having all that fun sex or their abortions. :)


    ....and it will continue despite the nastiness of Anti-Choicers :) :) :)

    - - - Updated - - -

    The fetus never had any rights.....what are you babbling about ???
     
  9. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Not controlling every move every woman makes must be quite frustrating.......:)

    Ya, it's all about the woman (ignorant to refer to a woman who may have never given birth as "mom").

    It's HER body not yours :) :nana:.....nothing you can do to take away from women the same rights you enjoy .......
     
  10. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    Except there are no more human rights violations and discriminations than there are when a person is killed for injuring another person.

    What a load of rubbish, there is no consensus amongst subject specialist as to when human life begins, there are currently five theories all of which have subject specialists that support or disagree with them, they are Fertilization, Implantation, Segmentation, Brain Function & Fetal Viability. The reality is that for subject specialists the answer to the question "when does human life begin" is "we don't know", adn as far as I am aware we don't make laws and restrictions based on "we don't know"

    You are right development is a continuous cycle and that cycle does not start with conception, for without either the sperm or ova there would be no fertilization.

    The 1959 Declaration of the Rights of the Child does not in any form define when childhood starts.

    "Whereas the child, by reason of his physical and mental immaturity, needs special safeguards and care, including appropriate legal protection, before as well as after birth, " is a preamble (9th) and is not binding law for the states parties, as confirmed by International Court of Justice in 1993. In that decision the ICJ noted that member states “encapsulated” their “declarations, determinations, aims and objectives” into the U.N. Charter’s first article to avoid the problem of the preamble’s non-justiciability. “The preambular parts of the United Nations Charter constitute the moral and political basis for the specific legal provisions thereafter set out. Such considerations do now, however, in themselves amount to rules of law.” Therefore, neither the definition of “child” implicit in preambular paragraph 9 nor the text’s call for legal protection before birth could be relied upon by itself to assert the right to life of a fetus.

    The function of the preambles text is to endorse the already very widespread practice of taking whatever measures the state considers ‘appropriate’ with a view to protecting the fetus, what is ‘appropriate’ in that regard is for each state to determine for itself, provided that other human rights guarantees were not thereby violated.

    So unfortunately your assertion that the 1959 declaration of the rights of the child protects the unborn is incorrect.

    Utter BS, the 1959 declaration of the rights of the child has not been changed since it's acceptance, it still means today what it meant in 1959 which is that it is up to the states if they extend it's meaning and contents to the unborn, and your reference to the Nazi's is ill conceived and obviously made by someone who doesn't have a clue concerning the Nazi regimes laws concerning pregnant women and abortion.

    Irrelevant

    Yet by proclaiming this you are in fact violating other peoples human rights, namely pregnant women, of their right to consent to who, what, where and when their body is used by another person...abortion by the way has been affirmed as a human right by the United Nations Committee.

    The question of slavery has nothing at all to do with abortion, this is the usual ploy of pro-lifers of attempting to compare apples to oranges.

    Absolutely, perhaps you can convince your pro-life buddies to stop campaigning against comprehensive sex education and free at source contraception of ALL types .. good luck with that!

    Pro-choice people do .. but all the time they are hitting the conservative wall.

    There is no pandering as far as abortion laws are concerned, they follow the Constitution, it was the banning of abortion that was "pandering to a group", namely the religious right-wing by unconstitutional means.

    100% wrong, it is true a person can do what ever they wish to their own body.

    There is no law against mutilating yourself .. none what so ever.

    Correct, except of course it is the fetus that is infringing on the females rights and she is just defending herself against that infringement, just as any other person can do.
     
  11. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    Utter BS.

    Wrong, wrong, wrong .. consent to sexual intercourse is not and cannot be consent to pregnancy, do yourself a favour and actually research consent laws.

    You seem to be under some illusion that the "innocent" cannot be killed in self-defence, again you need to do some research.

    Again a fundamentally misunderstanding of what nature means, you cannot in one breath say the unborn are persons with rights and then in the next say they are the result of a natural progression, if they are persons they cannot be natural.

    BTW. There is no mother unless she already has born children, a first time pregnant woman is not a mother until birth has taken place.

    Not your choice to impose onto others.

    Considering the reality that your comments are full of irrational and illogical rantings the irony of your above comment is thick.
     
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  12. Zeffy

    Zeffy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I.don't.care.

    She can do whatever she wants with it if it's inside of and attached to *her* body.


    That doesn't mean she has to be an incubator for a zef.


    If she wants it to be only about her, then it *is* only about her.

    Mind your own uterus and it's contents and stay the heck out of the ones of other women.
     
  13. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The funny thing about facts is that they only exist where people agree. This is purely an emotional issue and those who get up on the highest soapbox stop caring about these precious humans as soon as they are born. (Which means that they never cared at all.)They have zero concern for the human him/herself. If they did, why wouldn't they take part in all the stages of development?

    Unless you step up and take on the responsibility of caring for these humans until they reach adulthood, you just can't expect others to consider your claim of caring a fact.
     
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  14. Tosca1

    Tosca1 Well-Known Member

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    I understand what you mean.

    We can't expect everyone - especially the young ones raised in the atmosphere of Pro-Choice - to have respect for life, especially if we as a society find no wrong in murdering the most vulnerable human being on this planet, all for the sake of convenience, and political correctness.


    Murder just comes more so easy when you grow up in an environment that encourages mothers to murder their own offspring. If mothers can do that to their own children, how much more easy it is with total strangers?

    Perhaps these mass murderers just see the panicked people they're shooting up as something similar to bugs that scatter when they're being sprayed on. People are just a collection of cells that can run and scream.
    That's how devalued human life is.

    It's not guns and violent games that's brought on these slew of killing spree from mostly young people.
    It's our sick society.

    A psychopatic society......... will produce psycopaths.



    I think that is a cop-out. Though it has a ring of truth to it.....it comes out as an excuse.

    Furthermore, society already has something in place that helps unwanted children until they reach adulthood.
    Aside from adoption agencies, we even have wardships wherein the government becomes the official guardian of a child. All that's needed is for the pregnant woman to do is take her own responsibility to deliver the baby, and give him up for adoption or wardship. Then she can choose to move on, and never even look back.


    Of course you don't expect everyone to listen. It's the leaders - the movers and shakers - of society that you
    want to listen.
     
  15. Zeffy

    Zeffy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Abortion isn't murder and anyone who says it is is being dishonest.







    Adoption is wrong, so is "wardship". Many women are not willing to put there body through gestation and childbirth for a pregnancy they do not want. They should never, ever be forced to do so.
     
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  16. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good dodge attempt, but you are still on the hook for not caring. Saying something like “I care about these precious humans and to show how much I care, will suggest they be made wards of the state.” simply means that your level of caring is too low to ever make a difference. (Same outcome as not caring at all!)

    To add a little sanctimoniousness to your self-image as you make your empty claim, you point your righteous finger at others using the term “murder”!!!

    I respect life to a degree most will find unreasonable. Being Vegan, I do not believe in harming even a single ant. I don’t just tell others to care for animals; I rescue them and care for them myself. I don’t tell others to care for children; I take them into my home and care for them myself. My wife and I made 2 kids and adopted 3. (They really adopted us!)

    You may now go back to telling society what they should do.
     
  17. Tosca1

    Tosca1 Well-Known Member

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    To say that you dodged would be an understatement. You've totally ignored the reason why pro-lifers exist.

    I care for animals too, and I try not to harm even an ant. I'm not vegan! Vegan is not a qualifier!
    How do you know that there are no vegan serial killers? :smile:

    It's odd though that you'd go to extra lengths to save an ant, and yet try to argue with those who simply want to help the unborn. Instead of joining the cause to save the unborn, you seem to be apathetic to their plight.
    You seem to give more weight to insects than to a human being. Is that how it is with vegan folks?


    That's all your personal views.
    You may see people who fight for pro-life (yet not adopting any kids) to be uncaring.....but that doesn't mean it's true. It's all in your head.
    It's a dysfunctional view, though. Nevertheless, you have the right to express it.
     
  18. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What do you think I dodged? I took on your claim head on and you have not been able to defend it. I am anti-abortion and I know that laws against abortion are worthless and prevent nothing. You know that as well, but are unlikely to admit it.


    There are no Vegan serial killers as the title “Vegan” disappears the moment harm is committed.


    My point is that your claim to value life falls short of credibility due to your unwillingness to be part of the solution. You talk a good game, but it’s just talk.

    Words without actions are assassins of idealism.
     
  19. Tosca1

    Tosca1 Well-Known Member

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    Your lack of understanding about veganism is proof that you hardly know what you're on about.



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veganism
     
  20. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Cool. Start a thread about Veganism and I have a reply. Meanwhile, this thread is about abortion and diversion tactics will not work on me.Your claims of caring for human life have been challenged. I think it is safe to conclude that your level of caring stops at the point of opening your home to these precious humans.

    So go ahead and call others murderers, wear your T-shirts, carry your signs, chant your pro-life phrases and see yourself as a protector of human life. Asking how many you adopted allows the rest of us to see right through the facade.
     
  21. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    The only one messing with someone else's body in this scenario is the fetus. When the unwillingly pregnant woman is choosing abortion she is minding her own body.


    Then I suggest you fully adopt this principle and leave your entire life "in the hands of God" and never again visit a hospital.

    Got a tooth ache? Accept the functions of your body and live with it, bro.


    It is whether you like it or not.
     
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  22. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    Oh no! Not the "Pro Choice-environments!"

    :laughing:

    You know, this will definitely trigger you, but I will say it; the only ones we cannot expect to rrspect life are the religious.


    Oh, boo hoo. Grab a teddybear and suck your thumb.

    Now hold on! Where is this happening exactly?

    A piece of protoplasm is not a human being.

    Okay....

    Aha.


    Bro, just say you hate that people are enjoying sex already.


    Cute.
     
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  23. Indlib

    Indlib Well-Known Member

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    My religion is fine with abortion. Please don't tread on my rights.
     
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  24. Indlib

    Indlib Well-Known Member

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    Abortion is a constitutional right. Murder is illegal. Thus abortion can't be both murder and a constitutional right. Thus abortion is not murder.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
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  25. Ritter

    Ritter Well-Known Member

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    You do not have to be a Feminist to support abortion.

    Oooh nooo, not sex! :laughing:

    1. Abortion is not murder.
    2. Attributing a fetus "innocence" is not an argument and is only a plead to emotion.
    3. The woman who has an abortion is taking responsibility for "not having any business getting pregnant."

    Why do you think a woman has a duty to give birth?

    What if they fail?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
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