You're changing the goal posts. You didn't initially allow for conditions to be an influence on whether we can choose a homicide. You simply asked So why should we allow people to choose to commit a homicide when the "baby is expected to die naturally shortly after birth based on a doctor's experience with that situation" or when a person on life support is not expected to recover? That being said, a woman does not have the right to wantonly kill another at her whim. If her genetic offspring is not within her body, say she is using a surrogate via IVF, she has no right to terminate the offspring. It is only when another being is taking of her bodily resources does she have to right to stop it, regardless of the consequences to the one taking from her. Bodily autonomy is the same principle that allows her to kill the person raping her as well. It is the same principle that allows me to refuse to provide you with blood or organs, even if doing so will result in your death. I'm going to step back away from this one for the moment. I can't find the source that I previously used, and worse, I can't remember which thread (or debate site for that matter) I used that source on. I just remember that it showed of all abortions had, more were by white women than by black women. If I find it again, i'll come back to this.
If Black Lives Matter, truly matter, wouldn’t it make sense to protest outside your local abortion center? Or....or ...do black lives “matter” only for political gain? In my experience, pure political.
Most of these women felt like they had no other choice. They were pushed into it by social conditions. It is really a form of exploitation. (No different than people being "forced" to work for minimum wage, exploited by their employers)
So? As I said, "" black WOMEN'S lives matter....they should have the same rights as any other woman....""" Are you disagreeing???
Good progress in your thinking. We need to change the social conditions that cause women to find abortion necessary. I'm sure that at least includes issues of poverty, healthcare, employment, the increasing amount and expense of education required for achieving reasonable success, reducing the rate of rape, incest (where the vast majority don't even get reported), etc.
FoxHastings said: ↑ So? As I said, "" black WOMEN'S lives matter....they should have the same rights as any other woman....""" Are you disagreeing??? But you shouldn't because that wouldn't be right. Totally irrelevant. And, of course, you couldn't/didn't address the post of mine you quoted... As I said, "" black WOMEN'S lives matter....they should have the same rights as any other woman....""" Are you disagreeing???
And, of course, you couldn't/didn't address the post of mine you quoted... As I said, "" black WOMEN'S lives matter....they should have the same rights as any other woman....""" Are you disagreeing??? I asked first
I was pointing out how sometimes you can't give people certain rights without taking away rights. Black women have the right not to be exploited. To have to be compelled to abort their pregnancies because they feel like they have no other options. Even though aborting their pregnancy is not really what they want to do, in many cases. I think when we look at a place like New York City where OVER HALF of all black pregnancies end in abortion, we know something is wrong.
YOU HAVE NO PROOF THEY ARE COMPELLED BY ANYTHING BUT THEIR OWN FREE WILL. . NO, nothing is wrong if the number of black women who want abortions get abortions. And, of course, you couldn't/didn't address the post of mine you quoted... As I said, "" black WOMEN'S lives matter....they should have the same rights as any other woman....""" Are you disagreeing??? I asked first ….AND as usual GOT no ANSWER.....
I think their abortion rights should not be less than white women. But for slightly different reasons.
Do you think it is racist if white and black women are treated the same, if it is for different reasons?
FoxHastings said: ↑ Do you realize that is racist? Of course, it IS racist. Why would the reasons be "different" ??? Notice how I can answer your questions but can't answer mine? That means you have no argument/facts/ ...nothing...
Obviously not the same. One is a person we have no reason to believe would not live a healthy and happy life if not killed, the other is someone who is not able to live without artificial mechanical support.
, What "person" is that? A fetus isn't a "person"....doesn't have rights. Yes, a person with rights...
The issue brought up wasn't one of whether any given homicide was ethical or not. Which was the point that I brought up. The poster asked if we should ever be allowed to choose to commit homicide. Removing someone from life support is choosing to commit homicide, even if it is ethically done.
There are no children in utero. That particular designation doesn't apply until after birth. That why I tend to use "offspring". It applies to any stages from zygote to elderly.
I disagree. But it's unfortunate we cannot find a neutral term both sides could agree on, for using for the sake of a discussion. I don't think we should let semantics take over our arguments. How about this, when you read the word "child" just substitute it with the word "fetus" in your mind, and the other side will do the same. It would just be too complicated to go into detail and use the precise exact words everyone can agree on in every statement. I think even pro-choicers will agree that the life of the "thing" that's growing in there matters at least a little bit. They just see the desires of the woman as mattering more.
