Bad conditions in American prisons

Discussion in 'Human Rights' started by Anders Hoveland, May 2, 2012.

  1. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm all for punishment, because it is the fear of punishment that keeps criminals from doing the crime in the first place. Our current system of prisons and puishments is a failure. Criminals reoffend after prison at a rate of 67%. If a drug, therapy or treatment only worked 33% of the time, and caused death and injury the rest, the FDA would never approve it.

    I do not support "cruel and unusual punishment." However, my understanding of torture is little different from what was commonly understood 200 years ago. Torture is sadistic punishment for the sake of information or retribution. Anyone would know, Western practices like keelhauling, use of the rack, thumbscrews, flailing, crucifixion, as well as the ones employed by "savages" such as staking victims over antbeds, and running the gauntlet all to be torture. The modern liberal mind now imagines almost all treatment that makes prisoners uncomfortable to be cruel and unusual. Even providing convicts with education, TV and extra-crunchy peanut butter will never satisfy liberal advocates.

    Having convicts sit in small cells for decades at a time isn't torture, but in almost every case it is a very uncomfortable, expensive and ineffective in reducing acts of crime. Crime in the US was near its lowest point in the 1950's before liberal activism began to reverse the trend. So the answers to crime prevention is to use the same methods proven by time.

    "WWJD?," or more importantly, "What Would Our Founders Do" to the million plus convicts in our system today? All 1st degree murderers, predatory rapists and others who commit acts of beastial violence should be executed after a very short appeals process. All violent criminals should undergo the same treatment after their third-plus conviction, with two stays in prison having had no effect on them. All other crimes should be punished by public humiliation and/or terms in prison less than five years. Most every trial should be held in public. Convicts should have their names and crimes printed on their uniforms. All prisoners should be segregated for safety, and all those reasonably fit should work 6 days a week, usually outside doing hard labor while secured in padded chains. Discipline should follow military standards from the time of our Founders.

    Allowing crimes to contine at a rate over a hundred-fold during the last 50 years is cruel and unusually stupid.
     
  2. savage-republican

    savage-republican Well-Known Member

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    When Americans realize that they are were they are do to their own choices maybe they will make better choices. Too many Americans believe it is someone else's fault. If you commit a crime, you are responsible, its not whitey's fault, or the corporations fault, it is your fault alone. But, alas liberals want you to believe its someone else's fault.

    This is not to say I believe in the harsh treatment this country doles out for drugs, personally I would release everyone who has a non violent drug conviction immediately, but when it comes to crimes against innocent people were the perp has stripped an innocent person of their rights, then I could care less about them. I would rather spend money helping kids make good decisions than fixing some screwed up adult criminal.
     
  3. Colonel K

    Colonel K Well-Known Member

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    If the fear of punishment actually worked, the prisons would be empty. Treating prisoners with a modicum of human dignity, including protecting them from other inmates, is the very least a civil society can do.
    s a measure of the fitness for purpose of the US prison system, think back to Abu Ghraib. Some of those tried and convicted for the inhumane treatment of the detainees were National Guardsmen, whose civilian employment was as prison guards in the US, yet they saw no problem.
     
  4. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    sigh''' Okay, another (Briton I'd guess) who's true heart lies with the felon and not the victim. Prisons won't be empty, but there needs to be a goal, and baseline percentage of the population that needs to be delt with in a workable system to keep crime low. With 1.5 million in our syetem, that's way too high. I believe the percentages from the 1950's to be a very high standard to shoot for. In Britain, a good number would be the crime stats before the 1997 gun laws help cause the numbers to increase.

    As for you using an example of Abu Garib, how about British treatment of IRA terrorists over the years? I think overall, our treatment of enemy combatants to be very soft, as they deserve a fate no better than German partisans and saboteurs had in the hands of the British...ie...shot.

    Forcing criminals to do hard labor is doing them a favor. Gives them a work ethic, an understanding of discipline and also something to do besides fight and kill each other behind bars.
     
  5. Slyhunter

    Slyhunter New Member Past Donor

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    It's simple you terminate the ones who will never be released and free up space. Why warehouse them if they have no hope of being free again except through escape?
     
  6. overbet

    overbet Newly Registered

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    Prisons were developed in the US first. First Pennsilvania then New York. North Carolina did not have prisons until after the Civil War. Before prisons, criminals were kept in jail awaiting trial, but sentences were generally death, whipping, stocks, transportation to colonies and so on. The death penalty was often applied for property crimes, arson, and sexual offenses, particularly for repeat offenders.

    In early prisons, prisoners were whipped, placed in the stocks and so on and under the Pennsilvania system forced to keep silent and isolated from other prisoners.

    There are federal and state prisons, and conditions vary greatly by state and between maximum and minimum security. In the south there used to be chain gangs, which were similar to galley slaves with high fatality rates, and the conditions in many southern prisons are particularly bad.

    In male prisons, there are prison gangs and the gangs play the male role and force other prisoners to play the female role. Not sure if this is true in other countries as much. Due to discrimination laws men are hired as guards and so on in female prisons, and often take advantage of the prisoners.
     
  7. TedKaczynski

    TedKaczynski New Member

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    would not that be nice to provide a deterrent effect? effects of trauma to go back to jail?
     
  8. satv365

    satv365 New Member

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    Prisons should be segregated by race. Prisoners form gangs based on race and ethnicity. Keep them segregated.

    They should work outside for 10 hours or so a day. Doing something to earn money for the State.

    Another factor is that you go to jail for any god (*)(*)(*)(*) thing nowadays. Good lord, I consider myself a law abiding citizen and I spent 5 months in county jail back in my late teens. It's not about the prisons it's about who you send to prison, and what kind of criminals you allow to mix together.

    Need to realize that you shouldn't throw murderers and rapists and gang bangers in the same confined space as drug addicts, mentally ill, DUI and people convicted of petty theft.
     
  9. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    The problem with that line of reasoning is that prison rape disproportionately affects the weaker and younger. So in that regard, it is not really a fair punishment.

    And we have to consider the external consequences as well. Prisons are a breeding ground for AIDS. That young man that contracted AIDS in prison against his will may have have sex with a woman after he gets out, and that woman may eventually spread it to you. Preventing the spread of AIDS benefits ALL of society (for example, if your wife ever gets raped, you better hope her rapist does not have AIDS).
     
  10. TedKaczynski

    TedKaczynski New Member

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    [​IMG]

    lolololol
     

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  11. hiimjered

    hiimjered Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My wife carries and is an excellent shot. If someone tries to rape her, all that she's likely to get is a little GSR on her hands. The rapist will get a few bullet holes, and if all works out well, the rapist will be dead.

    Hey, I guess that helps all of society because it will limit the spread of AIDS too, and will get a worthless piece of human scum out of the gene pool.
     
  12. roadwarriortim

    roadwarriortim New Member

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    i agree with most of what is said on this post about prisons in america, of course most people here can not speak form experience however most people still seem to have a good measure of common sense. i have been in jail and only for a short time ( and it is possible to go to jail with out commiting any crime in this country believe it or not ) yes it does harm your pysche and really only serves to make people militant (in the image of most of the people that put them there,) ie most cops have some military backround. redemption is not part of their agenda in the first place , many of them get kicks out of abusing others and getting paid to do it. bad bad indeed.
     
  13. roadwarriortim

    roadwarriortim New Member

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    yes it is awful the way prisoner are treated and also the way big government only wants to make money on other peoples nightmares , moses helped make the laws i guess my question is of course are laws necessarily a good thing ?
     
  14. roadwarriortim

    roadwarriortim New Member

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    i agree that this country has many problems but for some one to say that this problem is more that this problem is questionable as in lets say perhaps if you were wrongly accused or even for a minor violation , and you had to share a cell with a very nasty person , how would you feel about that?
    my point is sometimes you have to look beyond your own world and into some elses.
     
  15. roadwarriortim

    roadwarriortim New Member

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    this is something i can not figure out , do prisoners get 6 course meals in prison , it makes no sense i mean prisoners of war in the civil war looked pretty thin even boney
     
  16. roadwarriortim

    roadwarriortim New Member

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    to bad you are only right in theory , this is real life though
     
  17. roadwarriortim

    roadwarriortim New Member

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    i cant believe people are born in to the world to commit crime at least most people may be society should man up and see if society is the cause of the problem , i think this is a cops and robbers country if you dont believe that americans have a morbid fascination with crime.. if you care to check count the number of cop show on tv now and keep counting back to yesterday , it is a bunch and i aint talking qbout the braty bunch
     
  18. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    That's real good and all, but what if the gun control politicians manage to pass more intrussive laws and your wife becomes denied a permit for a hand gun? This type of ridiculousness has already happened in California. And don't think that politicians wouldn't be able to pass it. 72% of Americans object to the government telling them what type of light bulb they can buy, yet the government was still able to pass, without any public debate, an obscure provision buried in the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007, which "phases out" regular incandescent light bulbs, forcing consumers to buy inferior technology at much higher cost.

    And if it were up to liberals, that rapist would only get 2 years in jail, while your wife would get 6 years for shooting him in the leg with an unregistered gun, and on top of that would have to pay a ridiculous lawsuit for the rapist's medical expenses, along with "damages" for "pain and suffering".

    Don't believe me?
    http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=123703&page=1
    http://www.politicalforum.com/western-europe/231661-ridiculously-light-sentences-sweden.html
    http://www.modbee.com/2010/04/09/1122196/ex-turlock-cop-denied-concealed.html
     
  19. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    if I ever had to go to prison I would want a private cell like death row inmates, can't imagine sleeping with killers, abusers and the like all around me
     
  20. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    With prisons being so overcrowded as they are, most prisoners are not given that luxury. If you live in California, chances are you would be sleeping in a triple level narrow bunk bed, in a former prison basketball court being used to wharehouse hundreds of prisoners tightly packed together.
    [​IMG]
     
  21. Pangloss

    Pangloss New Member

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    Legalize pot. Problem solved.
     
  22. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen New Member

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    Let me guess, most of those guys smoked pot, jaywalked, didn't pay a bill, etc?
     
  23. Slyhunter

    Slyhunter New Member Past Donor

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    I spent a week in jail. Worst food I've ever eaten. Half my meals tasted like warm spit. Sunday you get two pancakes woowee. I had 30k bond. Paid 3k non-refundable from a credit card, ruined my credit so I could keep my job and not get fired. They dropped the charges a couple months later without saying another word to me about it. They knew they had no case.
     
  24. spt5

    spt5 New Member

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    This is how easy it is to screw up people in the freest country on Earth. We Americans are always proud that we are always free to sue anyone and just let some court sort it out by a "fair trial". How stupid we are, that we are mentally incapable to realize that we lose our freedom before even going to that "fair trial", and we never get it back. A ruined credit doesn't go away, neither does an arrest record. How is the Land of the Free?
     
  25. spt5

    spt5 New Member

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    Isn't there a technology to hibernate people? With that you need only a quarter of this room to house these guys. Also, it would be safer and easier to control. What would human rights groups say about comparing that with this picture?
     

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